All these talk about boycotting the China Olympics

[BoomerD]

We watched a film the other day in Environmental Science class that said that breathing the air in Mexico City and many cities in China is the equivalent of smoking two packs of cigarettes per day because of the high levels of pollution. There can't be ANYTHING healthy about breathing air that is that polluted, especially for athletes who work their bodies to the max and require oxygen, not methyl-ethyl-badshit in the air.

 

[Deadtrees]

Originally posted by: CottonRabbit
The Tibetans aren't protesting, they are rioting and looting. Boycotting these Olympics for this reason would be like boycotting the US Olympics because of the Los Angeles riots of 1992 (I know it was in Barcelona, but let's say it was going to be hosted in New York).

Yes, Tibetans are rioting and looting and the people in Iraq wanted U.S to set them free. Amazing how some people can blind themselves.

 

[evident]

Originally posted by: palehorse74
I won't be watching any part of the China Olympics intentionally.

China is not my friend.

i dont know what the IOC was thinking when they decided to have the olympics in china. they have the most disgusting and abhorrent government in terms of human rights issues, and having the olympics there is just rewarding them for being dicks.

i wont be watching either

 

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: miketheidiot
i'm not exactly and america fanboy, but comparing the current state of china and the us is ridiculous.

:thumbsup:

 

[piasabird]

In China they just execute people and torture them to death. Easier to kill dissidents than put them in jail. However, the Chinese did round up Fulong dong practicioners of deep breathing exercises and put them in Death Camps and harvest their organs.

 

[Phokus]

Both China and USA are both in shameful situations.

 

[SoundTheSurrender]

Originally posted by: Deadtrees

Originally posted by: CottonRabbit
The Tibetans aren't protesting, they are rioting and looting. Boycotting these Olympics for this reason would be like boycotting the US Olympics because of the Los Angeles riots of 1992 (I know it was in Barcelona, but let's say it was going to be hosted in New York).

Yes, Tibetans are rioting and looting and the people in Iraq wanted U.S to set them free. Amazing how some people can blind themselves.

You've got to be shitting if you think that's the reasoning for this whole shithole mess. You think America invaded a sovereign state to free them? America doesn't give a fuck about the people in Iraq.

 

[Thump553]

Originally posted by: evident

Originally posted by: palehorse74
I won't be watching any part of the China Olympics intentionally.

China is not my friend.

i dont know what the IOC was thinking when they decided to have the olympics in china. they have the most disgusting and abhorrent government in terms of human rights issues, and having the olympics there is just rewarding them for being dicks.

i wont be watching either

What was the IOC thinking? $$$

I won't watch.

Incidentally the US State Dept. recently issued a warning to Olympic visitors that there is a strong likelihood that the Chinese government will be bugging the (supposedly private) hotel rooms of all US visitors. The Chinese government reacted strongly to that warning, not denying that they will be bugging but that the official US warning was intemperate, disruptive, or something like that.

When China stops depending on slave labor then I'm willing to give them a chance. Unfortunately our opening of free trade with China (starting with Nixon) has given us three plus decades of false prosperity (via Walmarts and exported jobs) but prevented what then looked like the inevitable collapse of the Chinese communist system. A bad trade off in my book.

 

[piasabird]

http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/...torch.relay/index.html

The chinese recently incarcerated for 5 years a person protesting for human rights in China. He suggested that they should have human rights and not the olympics.

How can you have a honest and open broadcast of the Olympics from a country where they have a Media black out of all the events occurring in Tibet?

I Say if a country does not have a relatively free press, then they can not have a real olympic atmosphere.

This is going to be worse than the olympics in the USSR.

 

[Throckmorton]

Originally posted by: LongCoolMother

Originally posted by: Throckmorton

Originally posted by: CottonRabbit
The Tibetans aren't protesting, they are rioting and looting. Boycotting these Olympics for this reason would be like boycotting the US Olympics because of the Los Angeles riots of 1992 (I know it was in Barcelona, but let's say it was going to be hosted in New York).

Wow. Wow




Wow.....


What is wrong with you?



Wow

wow, huh? maybe you would care to explain what exactly is wrong with his statement?

No one is saying to boycott the olympics because Tibetans are rioting. We are saying to boycott because CHINA violates human rights.

 

[Traveler]

Originally posted by: CottonRabbit
The Tibetans aren't protesting, they are rioting and looting. Boycotting these Olympics for this reason would be like boycotting the US Olympics because of the Los Angeles riots of 1992 (I know it was in Barcelona, but let's say it was going to be hosted in New York).

I second that.

Bet they didn't see the so-called protesters rooting and burning shops with people alive inside, and kicking innocent people to death.
If it's according to CNN's idiotic reporting standard, Paris Riots should be promoted as peaceful protests as well.
Some ill-intentioned people have to make everything political for their own despicable interests. Boycott comes out the same way.

Olympics should not exist in the first place if people want to hold it in an ideal fantasy world.

 

[LongCoolMother]

Originally posted by: Throckmorton

Originally posted by: LongCoolMother

Originally posted by: Throckmorton

Originally posted by: CottonRabbit
The Tibetans aren't protesting, they are rioting and looting. Boycotting these Olympics for this reason would be like boycotting the US Olympics because of the Los Angeles riots of 1992 (I know it was in Barcelona, but let's say it was going to be hosted in New York).

Wow. Wow




Wow.....


What is wrong with you?



Wow

wow, huh? maybe you would care to explain what exactly is wrong with his statement?

No one is saying to boycott the olympics because Tibetans are rioting. We are saying to boycott because CHINA violates human rights.

On the contrary. I see a LOT of people advocating boycotting the Olympics due to the situation in Tibet. I think there is a lot of misplaced criticism on the government regarding that situation. But it's also hypocritical for a lot of people to exonerate the US and any other country of any human rights violations. I see tons of double standard copout responses like these:

i'm not exactly and america fanboy, but comparing the current state of china and the us is ridiculous.

But what is a statement like this supposed to mean, exactly? That his statement was 'ridiculous,' and thats it? That somehow the US is A-OK because it doesn't violate that many human rights? I mean, c'mon, the US only violates SOME human rights, but not as much as China. Everything is all good!

Today some protesters disrupted the Olympics torch ceremony in Greece. It's never happened before. No matter how I see it, I just can't seem to appreciate the value of this gesture. It's one thing to protest peacefully outside, it's another, lowly act to run onto the torch ceremony, disrupt what is meant to be sacred, and wave unsightly banners in the midst of it.

Aside from what is, in my opinion, misplaced criticism on the handling of the Tibet riots, I also think many in the Western nations want to boycott the Olympics simply due to a prejudiced mindset against the Chinese. Just look at Nancy Pelosi, who recently blasted Beijing for its handling of the situation. Clearly she really knew what she was talking about... :roll: (read it). I don't think a boycott will do anything in the way of coercing the Chinese government to change; it will only anger them, damage relations, and may be even counterproductive. The Chinese people have worked hard and committed a lot of resources/hopes into these games. I think it would be very hurtful and damaging to actively disrupt their efforts for what I feel are often unjust reasons.

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: Thump553
When China stops depending on slave labor then I'm willing to give them a chance. Unfortunately our opening of free trade with China (starting with Nixon) has given us three plus decades of false prosperity (via Walmarts and exported jobs) but prevented what then looked like the inevitable collapse of the Chinese communist system. A bad trade off in my book.

The electronics gear I buy direct from China at 1/3rd the cost of domestic manufacturers doesn't like your tone, mister.

I also think many in the Western nations want to boycott the Olympics simply due to a prejudiced mindset against the Chinese

Probably to a degree. Any scholar of history knows that no people are content without another to demonize.

The Chinese people have worked hard and committed a lot of resources/hopes into these games.

True, they have put in some good effort. I don't know that the Olympics should be a political tool. My main qualm about Chinese selection is the pollution there, which may directly affect the athletes.

 

[Drift3r]

Originally posted by: SoundTheSurrender

Originally posted by: Deadtrees

Originally posted by: CottonRabbit
The Tibetans aren't protesting, they are rioting and looting. Boycotting these Olympics for this reason would be like boycotting the US Olympics because of the Los Angeles riots of 1992 (I know it was in Barcelona, but let's say it was going to be hosted in New York).

Yes, Tibetans are rioting and looting and the people in Iraq wanted U.S to set them free. Amazing how some people can blind themselves.

You've got to be shitting if you think that's the reasoning for this whole shithole mess. You think America invaded a sovereign state to free them? America doesn't give a fuck about the people in Iraq.

Or the people in China or Tibet. We just need something to make us feel better about ourselves when we look in the mirror everyday.

 

[glutenberg]

Originally posted by: Thump553

Originally posted by: evident

Originally posted by: palehorse74
I won't be watching any part of the China Olympics intentionally.

China is not my friend.

i dont know what the IOC was thinking when they decided to have the olympics in china. they have the most disgusting and abhorrent government in terms of human rights issues, and having the olympics there is just rewarding them for being dicks.

i wont be watching either

What was the IOC thinking? $$$

I won't watch.

Incidentally the US State Dept. recently issued a warning to Olympic visitors that there is a strong likelihood that the Chinese government will be bugging the (supposedly private) hotel rooms of all US visitors. The Chinese government reacted strongly to that warning, not denying that they will be bugging but that the official US warning was intemperate, disruptive, or something like that.

When China stops depending on slave labor then I'm willing to give them a chance. Unfortunately our opening of free trade with China (starting with Nixon) has given us three plus decades of false prosperity (via Walmarts and exported jobs) but prevented what then looked like the inevitable collapse of the Chinese communist system. A bad trade off in my book.

Oh come on now. You don't think the US relies on slave labor? There wouldn't be such an issue with illegal immigrants if we were paying them actual market wages comparable to what a US citizen would make.

 

[maddogchen]

If the Olympics were in the US, Al Qaeda's suicide bombers would definitely not try to boycott it.

 

[Drift3r]

The purpose for the Olympics was and still is to bring all nations ( including those that would not otherwise have their people talk to each other) together in a arena of friendly athletic competition. A place where athletes from around the world could demonstrate what the human body and mind is capable of when it has been trained and focused to a razor's edge. The Olympics are and were never meant to be associated with political statements where people would stomp out like drama queens and not participate or make pompous speeches about who has the better way of life.

 

[aceO07]

Originally posted by: Drift3r
The purpose for the Olympics was and still is to bring all nations ( including those that would not otherwise have their people talk to each other) together in a arena of friendly athletic competition. A place where athletes from around the world could demonstrate what the human body and mind is capable of when it has been trained and focused to a razor's edge. The Olympics are and were never meant to be associated with political statements where people would stomp out like drama queens and not participate or make pompous speeches about who has the better way of life.

+1

 

[Thump553]

Originally posted by: Drift3r
The purpose for the Olympics was and still is to bring all nations ( including those that would not otherwise have their people talk to each other) together in a arena of friendly athletic competition. A place where athletes from around the world could demonstrate what the human body and mind is capable of when it has been trained and focused to a razor's edge. The Olympics are and were never meant to be associated with political statements where people would stomp out like drama queens and not participate or make pompous speeches about who has the better way of life.

Unfortunately those idealistic days ended in 1972 when Palestian terrorists massacred Israeli athletes in the Olympic Village at Munich. Or if not then, thern certainly by the time of the Moscow Olympics when the US boycotted because of the USSR's invasion of Afganistan during the Carter adminstration (I don't recall-and am too lazy to look it up-whether this was an official boycott or not, but it certainly was a boycott).

The Olympics have been a propoganda tool for a long time-remember Hitler with the '36 Olympics? It would be swell to have the true Olympic spirit back but even I'm not Pollyannish enough to expect that. This Olympics is to showcase the great strides China has made-but they object to the light shining on their dirty secrets.

And Glutenberg, I was referring to actual slave labor in China, not the the US practice of underpaying illegal immigrants. Forcing prisoners (including political prisoners) to labor in China is still very common.

 

[glutenberg]

Originally posted by: Thump553

Originally posted by: Drift3r
The purpose for the Olympics was and still is to bring all nations ( including those that would not otherwise have their people talk to each other) together in a arena of friendly athletic competition. A place where athletes from around the world could demonstrate what the human body and mind is capable of when it has been trained and focused to a razor's edge. The Olympics are and were never meant to be associated with political statements where people would stomp out like drama queens and not participate or make pompous speeches about who has the better way of life.

Unfortunately those idealistic days ended in 1972 when Palestian terrorists massacred Israeli athletes in the Olympic Village at Munich. Or if not then, thern certainly by the time of the Moscow Olympics when the US boycotted because of the USSR's invasion of Afganistan during the Carter adminstration (I don't recall-and am too lazy to look it up-whether this was an official boycott or not, but it certainly was a boycott).

The Olympics have been a propoganda tool for a long time-remember Hitler with the '36 Olympics? It would be swell to have the true Olympic spirit back but even I'm not Pollyannish enough to expect that. This Olympics is to showcase the great strides China has made-but they object to the light shining on their dirty secrets.

And Glutenberg, I was referring to actual slave labor in China, not the the US practice of underpaying illegal immigrants. Forcing prisoners (including political prisoners) to labor in China is still very common.

Have a link to a study by chance?

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: glutenberg

Originally posted by: Thump553

Originally posted by: Drift3r
The purpose for the Olympics was and still is to bring all nations ( including those that would not otherwise have their people talk to each other) together in a arena of friendly athletic competition. A place where athletes from around the world could demonstrate what the human body and mind is capable of when it has been trained and focused to a razor's edge. The Olympics are and were never meant to be associated with political statements where people would stomp out like drama queens and not participate or make pompous speeches about who has the better way of life.

Unfortunately those idealistic days ended in 1972 when Palestian terrorists massacred Israeli athletes in the Olympic Village at Munich. Or if not then, thern certainly by the time of the Moscow Olympics when the US boycotted because of the USSR's invasion of Afganistan during the Carter adminstration (I don't recall-and am too lazy to look it up-whether this was an official boycott or not, but it certainly was a boycott).

The Olympics have been a propoganda tool for a long time-remember Hitler with the '36 Olympics? It would be swell to have the true Olympic spirit back but even I'm not Pollyannish enough to expect that. This Olympics is to showcase the great strides China has made-but they object to the light shining on their dirty secrets.

And Glutenberg, I was referring to actual slave labor in China, not the the US practice of underpaying illegal immigrants. Forcing prisoners (including political prisoners) to labor in China is still very common.

Have a link to a study by chance?

Forced labor in prisons, granted 3 years old but I'm sure it's still valid. It's ludicrous to compare that to people who illegaly jump a border and then work under the table, under the law, at lower wages.

 

[Fern]

Originally posted by: Drift3r
The purpose for the Olympics was and still is to bring all nations ( including those that would not otherwise have their people talk to each other) together in a arena of friendly athletic competition. A place where athletes from around the world could demonstrate what the human body and mind is capable of when it has been trained and focused to a razor's edge. The Olympics are and were never meant to be associated with political statements where people would stomp out like drama queens and not participate or make pompous speeches about who has the better way of life.

QFMFT

I really dislike mixing politics and sports.

Fern

 

[glutenberg]

Originally posted by: Skoorb

Originally posted by: glutenberg

Originally posted by: Thump553

Originally posted by: Drift3r
The purpose for the Olympics was and still is to bring all nations ( including those that would not otherwise have their people talk to each other) together in a arena of friendly athletic competition. A place where athletes from around the world could demonstrate what the human body and mind is capable of when it has been trained and focused to a razor's edge. The Olympics are and were never meant to be associated with political statements where people would stomp out like drama queens and not participate or make pompous speeches about who has the better way of life.

Unfortunately those idealistic days ended in 1972 when Palestian terrorists massacred Israeli athletes in the Olympic Village at Munich. Or if not then, thern certainly by the time of the Moscow Olympics when the US boycotted because of the USSR's invasion of Afganistan during the Carter adminstration (I don't recall-and am too lazy to look it up-whether this was an official boycott or not, but it certainly was a boycott).

The Olympics have been a propoganda tool for a long time-remember Hitler with the '36 Olympics? It would be swell to have the true Olympic spirit back but even I'm not Pollyannish enough to expect that. This Olympics is to showcase the great strides China has made-but they object to the light shining on their dirty secrets.

And Glutenberg, I was referring to actual slave labor in China, not the the US practice of underpaying illegal immigrants. Forcing prisoners (including political prisoners) to labor in China is still very common.

Have a link to a study by chance?

Forced labor in prisons, granted 3 years old but I'm sure it's still valid. It's ludicrous to compare that to people who illegaly jump a border and then work under the table, under the law, at lower wages.

I misunderstood your implication of slave labor. I was thinking more along the lines of complaints against China's employee practices.

 

[StormRider]

Originally posted by: Skoorb

Originally posted by: glutenberg

Originally posted by: Thump553

Originally posted by: Drift3r
The purpose for the Olympics was and still is to bring all nations ( including those that would not otherwise have their people talk to each other) together in a arena of friendly athletic competition. A place where athletes from around the world could demonstrate what the human body and mind is capable of when it has been trained and focused to a razor's edge. The Olympics are and were never meant to be associated with political statements where people would stomp out like drama queens and not participate or make pompous speeches about who has the better way of life.

Unfortunately those idealistic days ended in 1972 when Palestian terrorists massacred Israeli athletes in the Olympic Village at Munich. Or if not then, thern certainly by the time of the Moscow Olympics when the US boycotted because of the USSR's invasion of Afganistan during the Carter adminstration (I don't recall-and am too lazy to look it up-whether this was an official boycott or not, but it certainly was a boycott).

The Olympics have been a propoganda tool for a long time-remember Hitler with the '36 Olympics? It would be swell to have the true Olympic spirit back but even I'm not Pollyannish enough to expect that. This Olympics is to showcase the great strides China has made-but they object to the light shining on their dirty secrets.

And Glutenberg, I was referring to actual slave labor in China, not the the US practice of underpaying illegal immigrants. Forcing prisoners (including political prisoners) to labor in China is still very common.

Have a link to a study by chance?

Forced labor in prisons, granted 3 years old but I'm sure it's still valid. It's ludicrous to compare that to people who illegaly jump a border and then work under the table, under the law, at lower wages.

Hmmm, I just skimmed the article and noted the following:

Some of Mr Wu's claims have been criticised by other observers as exaggerated or out-dated.

His estimates of the total number of inmates have ranged from four million to 20 million. But many believe the true figure today to be around two million - which is fewer than the number behind bars in the United States.

As for using "slave labour" to conquer the world's markets, prison goods are in fact thought to play a very minor role in China's exports - if only because their quality is too low. While some prison officers may be lining their own pockets, the system as a whole runs at a loss.

Prison labour, moreover, is not in itself against international law.

I really doubt that China's rise to an economic power was based on prison labor. There are plenty of villagers out there who are rushing into cities for work. There really isn't a need to base an economy on prison labor.

Also, I'm pretty sure not all prisoners are political prisoners. All cultures/countries have true criminals (murderers, thieves etc.) that probably deserve to be behind bars. And the prison population estimates for China are still way lower than the number of prisoners in the US.

Playing devil's advocate, if I really think about it, I'm not so sure I would be against prison labor as a form of reform (as long as it's kept to something like 8 hours of work per day). They learn some job skills, contribute to society in some way and are kept busy (idle hands are the devil's hand or so they say).

It's better than our system where they just rot away doing nothing except lifting weights and watching p0rn and being a drain on society -- and upon release are angry and super strong and violent. And our society jokes all the time about prison rapes and then we get up on our high chairs about human rights.

 

[glutenberg]

Originally posted by: StormRider
I really doubt that China's rise to an economic power was based on prison labor. There are plenty of villagers out there who are rushing into cities for work. There really isn't a knew to base an economy on prison labor.

Also, I'm pretty sure not all prisoners are political prisoners. All cultures/countries have true criminals (murderers, thieves etc.) that probably deserve to be behind bars. And the prison population estimates for China are still way lower than the number of prisoners in the US.

Playing devil's advocate, if I really think about it, I'm not so sure I would be against prison labor as a form of reform (as long as it's kept to something like 8 hours of work per day). They learn some job skills, contribute to society in some way and are kept busy (idle hands are the devil's hand or so they say).

It's better than our system where they just rot away doing nothing except lifting weights and watching p0rn and being a drain on society -- and upon release are angry and super strong and violent. And our society jokes all the time about prison rapes and then we get up on our high chairs about human rights.

To be fair, the US does have work rehab programs for the jail system but the inmates are paid for their services. I think Skoorb's argument still stands in that case if his argument is that the prisoners are being forced to work without pay.