All the manufacturing China has done has drained their energy sector.

[Anarchist420]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/repo...actories-running-out-of-power/article2032648/

Isn't this why tariffs aren't necessary? What other 3rd world country will have enough clean energy to manufacture until the end of time?

Also, if manufacturing quality from a 3rd world country gets too lousy, then they'll just move the jobs elsewhere, because people will quit buying from the whatever companies use shitty labor.

 

[Engineer]

So they suck up more of the rest of the worlds energy causing prices to rise for all (in goods and energy prices).

 

[Jhhnn]

So they suck up more of the rest of the worlds energy causing prices to rise for all (in goods and energy prices).

They're just following our example.

Actually, they're doing a great deal to exploit hydro and nuclear energy. It seems likely that energy shortages will be a temporary issue...

The Chinese have by far the oldest continuous civilization on the planet, and have documented the waxing and waning of their fortunes all along. They see the current govt as "strong Emperors" and their fortunes correspondingly rising. It's hard to argue, given the results, and it's foolish to think that they won't find a way to keep it up. Their market penetration worldwide is astounding, particularly wrt emerging economies that are energy rich. They make what the world wants at very, very reasonable prices, and so long as they do, they'll prosper.

 

[rchiu]

So they suck up more of the rest of the worlds energy causing prices to rise for all (in goods and energy prices).

Well USA suck up more than twice with only 1/4 of the population, but no, USA cannot be causing energy price to rise cause having all the energy at cheap price is a god given right of all American.

 

[GoPackGo]

What the heck is China gonna do when Walmart decides to no longer buy the cheap crap they make.

 

[Schadenfroh]

USA cannot be causing energy price to rise cause having all the energy at cheap price is a god given right of all American.

Gasoline consumption in America has been declining for some time now.

Also, Canadians use more energy per-capita than Americans.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_energy_consumption_per_capita

 

[tommo123]

isn't a lot of that for heat as it's so fricking cold in parts?

 

[Doppel]

Remember that outsourcing to china is just step 1, step 2 is outsourcing to machines. Obviously that's been taking place for decades, but if you have a $3M machine that's creating $4M of product/year it hardly matters if your workers make $70k/year manning it or $20k/year.

 

[dmcowen674]

All the manufacturing China has done has drained their energy sector

What's an energy sector?

Energy is everywhere, what is this "drained" shit?

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally Posted by rchiu
USA cannot be causing energy price to rise cause having all the energy at cheap price is a god given right of all American.

Gasoline consumption in America has been declining for some time now.

Also, Canadians use more energy per-capita than Americans.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_energy_consumption_per_capita

Americans can't afford gas anymore.

That's OK rchiu, you can pay the robber barons now, we've paid enough over here.

 

[wuliheron]

They're just following our example.

Actually, they're doing a great deal to exploit hydro and nuclear energy. It seems likely that energy shortages will be a temporary issue...

The Chinese have by far the oldest continuous civilization on the planet, and have documented the waxing and waning of their fortunes all along. They see the current govt as "strong Emperors" and their fortunes correspondingly rising. It's hard to argue, given the results, and it's foolish to think that they won't find a way to keep it up. Their market penetration worldwide is astounding, particularly wrt emerging economies that are energy rich. They make what the world wants at very, very reasonable prices, and so long as they do, they'll prosper.

Their annual growth in GDP is the size of our unemployment rate and if they have to scale it back a bit it certainly won't kill their economy. Water shortages and pollution are the more serious long term threats to their continued growth.

 

[wuliheron]

Remember that outsourcing to china is just step 1, step 2 is outsourcing to machines. Obviously that's been taking place for decades, but if you have a $3M machine that's creating $4M of product/year it hardly matters if your workers make $70k/year manning it or $20k/year.

Step 3 - Make the machines idiot proof and then you can have low paid idiots manning the machines.

 

[BlahBlahYouToo]

Well USA suck up more than twice with only 1/4 of the population, but no, USA cannot be causing energy price to rise cause having all the energy at cheap price is a god given right of all American.

obvious chinese man is angry.

 

[BoberFett]

I've long said that increasing energy costs will bring some manufacturing back. For low margin items, the cost of shipping things halfway around the world simply can't be worth it as energy costs rise.

 

[Engineer]

I've long said that increasing energy costs will bring some manufacturing back. For low margin items, the cost of shipping things halfway around the world simply can't be worth it as energy costs rise.

I've wondered the same thing also. I've looked at simple injection molded items and wonder how in the hell is it cheaper to make them in China (same injection mold machine) and ship them here when there is essentially no labor involved in the process and the shipping distance is tremendously different. Doesn't make sense to me....*shrugs*

 

[Engineer]

Well USA suck up more than twice with only 1/4 of the population, but no, USA cannot be causing energy price to rise cause having all the energy at cheap price is a god given right of all American.

I understand that, and it wasn't the point. The point is that even though it will cost more for China to make and ship the stuff to us, it will cost us more to make it also as the worlds energy costs rise from China (and other developing countries). No God given rights found.

 

[BoberFett]

I understand that, and it wasn't the point. The point is that even though it will cost more for China to make and ship the stuff to us, it will cost us more to make it also as the worlds energy costs rise from China (and other developing countries). No God given rights found.

That's another good point. Fact is, regardless of where things are manufactured the middle class lifestyle will have to take a hit. We've lived high on the hog for a long time based on cheap energy and cheap overseas labor. Lifestyles will have to step back to a somewhat more modest level. Of course neither side will ever tell their constituents that simple truth, and we will continue to utterly destroy our economy and our currency to maintain the facade of "prosperity" in the form of homes filled to the brim with knick-knacks, doo-dads, and all manner of assorted crap that nobody needs.

 

[Jhhnn]

That's another good point. Fact is, regardless of where things are manufactured the middle class lifestyle will have to take a hit. We've lived high on the hog for a long time based on cheap energy and cheap overseas labor. Lifestyles will have to step back to a somewhat more modest level. Of course neither side will ever tell their constituents that simple truth, and we will continue to utterly destroy our economy and our currency to maintain the facade of "prosperity" in the form of homes filled to the brim with knick-knacks, doo-dads, and all manner of assorted crap that nobody needs.

Heh. What about upper class lifestyles, the top 1%? They've gained the most over the last 30 years, with their share of taxable income more than doubling from <9% to > 20% while their average effective tax rate has fallen by a third, from 33% to 22%.

Funny that they call for the rest of us to sacrifice when they can afford to do so rather painlessly...

 

[BoberFett]

Heh. What about upper class lifestyles, the top 1%? They've gained the most over the last 30 years, with their share of taxable income more than doubling from <9% to > 20% while their average effective tax rate has fallen by a third, from 33% to 22%.

Funny that they call for the rest of us to sacrifice when they can afford to do so rather painlessly...

The rich will always live opulent lifestyles compared to the average person, yet if we divided their incomes among the rest of the population, it would barely change anything. Stop being so jealous.

 

[rchiu]

I've wondered the same thing also. I've looked at simple injection molded items and wonder how in the hell is it cheaper to make them in China (same injection mold machine) and ship them here when there is essentially no labor involved in the process and the shipping distance is tremendously different. Doesn't make sense to me....*shrugs*

Well it's probably not the injection mold machine itself, but all the parts that are necessary to build the injection mold machines. Sad parts is because of all the outsourcing, you don't find many knots and bolt and other basic parts manufacturers in the US anymore, or they are very expensive. The whole supply chain is down there in China already so it will be cheaper to build the machines there. There are many documented cases already, lots of people trying to revive some industry here in the US only to find out all the suppliers are else where and no where to be found in the US. So very hard to control the production.