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All Statues and Monuments must come down

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Sunburn74

Diamond Member
Oct 5, 2009
4,094
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You mean the one that freed slaves paid for that shows a slave with his chains broken standing up for the first time as a free man? The one that keeps getting misconstrued by morons to be a slave that is lower or bowing to Lincoln?

Ugh. Don't fall for that crap.
Misconstrued? I don't think so. Frederick Douglas wrote a letter at the time the statue was completed and he basically called it inappropriate and offensive in its depiction of African america.. this was over a hundred years ago.
 

CZroe

Lifer
Jun 24, 2001
23,950
729
126
Misconstrued? I don't think so. Frederick Douglas wrote a letter at the time the statue was completed and he basically called it inappropriate and offensive in its depiction of African america.. this was over a hundred years ago.
He was saying he didn't like how it looked because it could be seen the wrong way.

So, yes: "misconstrued."
 

shortylickens

No Lifer
Jul 15, 2003
76,577
9,703
126
You can remember the holocaust with a Holocaust Museum, and books, and documentaries.
You don't need statues of Goehring all over the place. Much less statues that are clearly tributes.
 

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
33,273
2,971
126
Little Mermaid in Copenhagen is racist? Where are you Disney? Better remove that movie or else. /s

Oh Boo Hoo!! That statue has been the target of vandalism for years....so what`s the issue?
 

Starbuck1975

Lifer
Jan 6, 2005
14,432
1,808
126

mikeymikec

Lifer
May 19, 2011
14,116
4,158
136
Oh Boo Hoo!! That statue has been the target of vandalism for years....so what`s the issue?
Somebody defaced it. It could have been someone who considers themselves allied with BLM. Or not. But the important thing is that it could be. Therefore anyone who considers themselves to be pro-BLM is to blame. In case it might have had anything to do with BLM.
 

KMFJD

Lifer
Aug 11, 2005
20,981
20,128
136
One of Columbus’ ancestors released an interesting article that the case against Columbus is misguided, and there is a general historical revisionist Anglo bias against Catholic Spanish and Portuguese explorers that paints them as villains, where British explorers are treated with far more reverence.
I'd like to read that if you have the link available, everything i've read stated that he was a grossly incompetent administrator fueled by avarice. In regards to the bias, i think it was more about the Spanish not being to fond of taking orders from an Italian and his brothers.
 
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zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
103,527
18,084
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We're experiencing a revolution. One can't see any method to the defacing and destruction because there is no method. It's all based in rage formed through decades of indoctrination. Despite people throughout the world seeking to come to this nation for the freedoms and opportunities it provides, many that were educated here are convinced that we are a nation formed with bad intent and that the perceived wrongs of the past and present that consume their daily thoughts can only be rectified through violent revolution. They're doing it and we're letting them.

When all the statues and monuments are torn down they will direct their anger towards people. It's a given. History tells us this. I had hoped to be dead and gone before we reached this state but it looks unlikely that natural causes will take me in time.

A Trump win in November will intensify the revolution immensely. The media will fan the flames based on misguided thinking that they will be spared. The wall CNN erected surrounding their headquarters will not be sufficient. A Dem win will just slow the revolution down a bit. Both political parties are the enemy to these people. No corporation is safe despite how much they give to the "cause". No state government, no local government, no city or town will escape this.

It's been over a hundred years in the making. Any serious effort to stop it will be shouted down from the rooftops by the media and their faithful followers. We're far past the point of words stopping this.

History shows us that when the left achieves absolute power in a country, it murders its political opponents. It can't be any other way because dissension cannot be tolerated. The trick will be to convince your new masters that you're on the correct side once neighbor turns against neighbor.
old racist is mad that monuments build for white supremacy, plainly and explicitly at the very times they were built (a simple matter of observable public record) are being torn down.

he calls it violent, random rage. LoL. what a fucking indoctrinated rube this boomerang is.
 
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zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
103,527
18,084
136
I'm totes coo with this one. Even as a child I thought this particular display of human hubris was not cool.
apparently, white wing authoritarians are suddenly being made aware of the long, thoroughly-documented controversy surrounding Mt Rushmore. They had no idea! Who knew!

I don't think it should be blown up (it is a sacred mountain. so, bad). But it should be returned to the Lakota to do with as they wish.

I wonder how many white wing authoritarians have even been to Mt Rushmore? I drove through there and stopped in 2008. It is the plain definition of a shithole. The whole thing is just one plaza with a massive, tacky gift shop of stupid kitsch made in China and, I shit you not--run by teenage Russian summer workers. They were talking shit to each other the entire time I was there, too, all in Russian. It was kinda perfect, in a way, but also the kind of thing that one would think would drive the white wing authoritarians nuts about their holy monument to stone faces.
 
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JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
33,273
2,971
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I'd like to read that if you have the link available, everything i've read stated that he was a grossly incompetent administrator fueled by avarice. In regards to the bias, i think it was more about the Spanish not being to fond of taking orders from an Italian and his brothers.
I`d like to read the article too!
Also how would the ancestor know?? Unless he talked with Columbus....
 

brianmanahan

Lifer
Sep 2, 2006
20,086
2,204
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monuments built around an ideal are likely to age better than monuments built around a person

unless that ideal is like world domination or something
 

Sunburn74

Diamond Member
Oct 5, 2009
4,094
1,443
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He was saying he didn't like how it looked because it could be seen the wrong way.

So, yes: "misconstrued."
The letter used much stronger language than simply having concerns about it being "misconstrued". You may want to read it.

From the letter (the second to last sentence BTW):
"The negro here, though rising is still on his knees and nude. What I want to see before I die is a monument representing the negro, not couchant on his knees like a four-footed animal, but erect on his feet like a man".

That doesn't exactly seem like he is concerned that some may "misconstrue" the statue negatively.
 

CZroe

Lifer
Jun 24, 2001
23,950
729
126
The letter used much stronger language than simply having concerns about it being "misconstrued". You may want to read it.

From the letter (the second to last sentence BTW):
"The negro here, though rising is still on his knees and nude. What I want to see before I die is a monument representing the negro, not couchant on his knees like a four-footed animal, but erect on his feet like a man".

That doesn't exactly seem like he is concerned that some may "misconstrue" the statue negatively.
...except that's exactly what it seems like. He says "not couchant on his knees like a four-footed animal" after acknowledging that the former slave was actually rising to assert himself. This openly points out that his position could be misconstrued as being like an animal. You are making my case for me.

It doesn't say he has a problem with the statue either. It says that he would like to see a monument for his people, depicting a free man in control and on his own two feet. I agree with him, but this was a monument to Lincoln, remember? ...paid for by former slaves. They aren't mutually exclusive nor did he suggest they were.

He's not talking about his preference for a Lincoln monument. Clearly, he's talking about his desire for another monument "representing the negro ... erect on his feet like a man."
 
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Starbuck1975

Lifer
Jan 6, 2005
14,432
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I'd like to read that if you have the link available, everything i've read stated that he was a grossly incompetent administrator fueled by avarice. In regards to the bias, i think it was more about the Spanish not being to fond of taking orders from an Italian and his brothers.
I`d like to read the article too!
Also how would the ancestor know?? Unless he talked with Columbus....
I can’t seem to grab the URL. It was an opinion piece written by Christopher Columbus XX, who is a descendent of both Columbus and Montezuma. The title is

“Hey America, my ancestors didn’t cause your failings.”
 

pmv

Diamond Member
May 30, 2008
6,935
2,251
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He was saying he didn't like how it looked because it could be seen the wrong way.

So, yes: "misconstrued."
If something is so liable to be seen in such a "wrong way" then it's a poor design. Who is to say what is 'misconstruing'? Maybe it's the claimed non-offensive meaning that is 'miscontrued'? It's not unknown for artists of various types to not be concious of the hidden/underlying implications of their own work.
 

CZroe

Lifer
Jun 24, 2001
23,950
729
126
Who is to say what is 'misconstruing'?
The creators who know their own intent. Namely, the former slaves paid to have it created and the artist they hired. Their intent was pretty clear.

Maybe it's the claimed non-offensive meaning that is 'miscontrued'?
Clearly that isn't the case here.

It's not unknown for artists of various types to not be concious of the hidden/underlying implications of their own work.
You're right. Tear it down. Screw those former slaves who scrimped and saved to pay for a lasting monument to Lincoln. We openly reject/ignore/discard the original context and intent to feign offense!

...all while the original intent for the Confederate monuments counts when deciding that they should not exist.

The Confederate monuments need to go largely because of their intent. In the exact same way, the Lincoln statue freeing the former slave needs to remain. We dishonor those former slaves when we distort or ignore their intentions to get self-righteously indignant even if we tell ourselves that we are doing it on their behalf (a lie).
 
Dec 10, 2005
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The creators who know their own intent. Namely, the former slaves paid to have it created and the artist they hired. Their intent was pretty clear.
It may have been paid for by former slaves, but it was designed by white people. Once art has been created, it's out of the artist's hands, regardless of what their intention was. Maybe we should let Black people speak about what they find offensive instead of dictating to them the terms that their offense may take.
 
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CZroe

Lifer
Jun 24, 2001
23,950
729
126
It may have been paid for by former slaves, but it was designed by white people. Once art has been created, it's out of the artist's hands, regardless of what their intention was. Maybe we should let [some] Black people speak about what they find offensive instead of dictating to them the terms that their offense may take.
FTFY

I'm not the one who is ignoring how certain black people feel about this (the freed slaves who voluntarily paid for it) or twisting what Frederick Douglass actually said.

The answer to "who is to say" is simple. Let's not pretend it's more complicated. It's hypocritical to say their original intentions don't matter while the intentions of those erecting Confederate monuments do, regardless of how they are ignorantly perceived by some today. Ignorance can be fixed.
 

Svnla

Lifer
Nov 10, 2003
16,881
906
126
Oh Boo Hoo!! That statue has been the target of vandalism for years....so what`s the issue?
Oh really?

By your very own logic, someone could go to this thread - https://forums.anandtech.com/threads/seattle-autonomous-zone.2581680/page-20

and say this just like you did....

" Oh Boo Hoo!! Humans have been injured by vehicles for years....so what`s the issue? "

See how stupid of what you said? Get my point yet?

And before you and your ilks try to put your own words as mine, I never say humans and statuses are the same so don't even try to go there and twist it into your agenda.
 

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