All hail Gentoo!

[vash]

I've been on and off with Linux since the 1.10 kernel days and basically sat back and installed various distro's to find all of them a bit different than others. Recently, I've read about Gentoo and how it handles software packages, maintenance, etc.

When I first tried Linux, it was via Slackware and that was a mistake. Slackware was one of the only distro's out there, so I had no choice. At that early state of messing around with Linux, Slackware was too steep a learning curve, so I stepped back from it. Then came RedHat and it is a much better "packaged" distro out there that has virtually everything you'll need at the desktop or workstation space (with all those CDs, it better have it all). Next up was Mandrake and it has some major improvements over RedHat, but I think they are falling into the "we need to release a new version" syndrome vs. offering something really new. Being that Mandrake supports RPM, it really helps them gain some help in maintaining their distros.

A few months back I stepped into Debian and was getting along quite well. Unfortunately, the few problems I had, I couldn't "put into words" when I searched up docs, etc. When I hit IRC, someone could definitely help me, but I was looking for finding the help from their website and with what I had issues with, I couldn't find all the words to describe my problem. Debian was also a bit behind (not necessarily a bad thing, but I want near bleeding edge), even with "woody".

Yesterday, I installed Gentoo and this distro has floored me. Their documentation for installation was top notch and their basic guides on their website got me running only a few minutes after install (well, a few minutes to figure out what package I needed, then a few hours to compile). Gentoo basically layed out all the basics I'd need to get my system going, that included modding files and my default kernel would be one totally optimized for my box. Now that I have all the major components (for my current use) installed (XFree 4.2.0, xmms, Mozilla, Blackbox), compile times aren't that bad for new packages.

For anyone that has some experience with linux and would like to try out a distro that isn't total bloatware, try out Gentoo. You really will need a broadband connection to install, but its definitely worth it. But can anyone give me a good "real world" performance boost that I'm gaining wtih every application being compiled? I do see the importance of compiling each app, but how much does it really improve the speed? Compiling a good kernel is a good key for speed, but for each app?

Anyhow, that's my post. Feel free to comment (especially on the speed increase with compiling everthing).

vash

 

[Derango]

Well...A broadband connection his helpful on the install...but its not quite a requirement. There are ways to do it on dial-up. What you REALLY need for gentoo is a faster system. Since it compiles everything from source, packages like X, KDE, and GNOME take a really long time to compile. IT takes about 6-7 hours on my p3 866 laptop. However it takes 3 hours on my overclocked P4 desktop.

Well, I guess my point in all this is...gentoo is not for you if you're going to install it on a pentium 133mhz

 

[Nothinman]

Debian was also a bit behind (not necessarily a bad thing, but I want near bleeding edge), even with "woody".

This always makes me wonder, I have never found an application that had some great feature in a new release but the Debian package was too old to have this feature. Maybe something like KDE 3 or Gnome 2, but those are huge and I'd rather let someone else do some QA on them before I fight with them for days.

But can anyone give me a good "real world" performance boost that I'm gaining wtih every application being compiled? I do see the importance of compiling each app, but how much does it really improve the speed? Compiling a good kernel is a good key for speed, but for each app?

Unless you have a really odd piece of hardware I doubt you'll see much benefit. I'm willing to be the small speed increase (if it's even noticable) will be offset greatly by the time wasted compiling everything =)

Same with the kernel, I compile a new kernel to get support for things I want like XFS, wireless, etc not for speed. But then a new kernel compile only takes ~3m on my machine =)

 

[Workin']

Gentoo sounds interesting but I have way too many other things to do than wait around for everything to compile, and since I can set up a fully functional Debian system (X, web server, email server, smb and apple file server, etc.) with a custom kernel in about 1.5 hours what's the point?

No one has ever posted any benchmarks proving custom-compiled software (or even a kernel using CPU-specific optimizations) gives ANY performance gain. This topic pops up every so often on the Debian mail list, because Debian doesn't offer packages with CPU optimizations. They say the reason they don't offer such packages is that no one has ever shown it to be worthwhile, and there are other more important things to spend time doing - like keep up with security and make sure the packages you do offer are as bug-free as possible.

When I first started using Debian it irritated me that they always seemed to be a step (or two) behind the bleeding edge. But if you step back and take a look, it's like Nothinman said, "I have never found an application that had some great feature in a new release but the Debian package was too old to have this feature. Maybe something like KDE 3 or Gnome 2, but those are huge and I'd rather let someone else do some QA on them before I fight with them for days."I've been running Debian for a few months now and I have yet to find a package that breaks my system (unlike with Red Hat and Mandrake, where that was a common occurrence). I do wish they would get KDE3 packaged pretty soon, though...

 

[vash]

I do wish they would get KDE3 packaged pretty soon, though...

This is one reason why I did enjoy Gentoo. Downloading and compiling is a bit of a pain when it came to using the OS, but everything I get is definitely new. If you like KDE, then Gentoo is great. Their package for Gnome is behind, so I guess there is some lacking of that package for Gentoo.

I'm really interested in seeing Gentoo compile on one of my faster machines or possibly when I turn my two XP1800s into a SMP rig. That'll cut the compiles by a quarter (700Mhz now vs. 2X 1.53ghz), but if there really is no benefit from compiling, Gentoo doesn't seem all that worth it. Compiling was a bit of a pain last night with the Mozilla compile. I *really* wanted to surf under X, read the online docs a bit more, but Mozilla took a WHILE to compile. Then I added XMMS and it needed Alps, etc -- that took some time as well. They all worked when they compiled, but damn did it take some time.

Here's a question for ya'll, how do I get an application to load when I start X, other than use the WM? Can I add more application entries to .xinitrc? Right now, my WM is Blackbox and I want bbkeys to load, but I can't figure how to launch it other than manually.

Now its back to reading where I add/change users, my root account isn't something I should be installing everything from.

vash

 

[n0cmonkey]

There was only 1 application I have *EVER* come across that I have noticed a major difference when adding better compiler optimizations. And even then, it might have been some wierd OpenBSD bug. Most of the things I have installed on my machine at home I have installed through an OpenBSD package, unless they were large and I didnt need them right away. But I definitely like not having to wait 6 minutes for something to compile so I can use it, when I can download a package and immedialtely get back to work. Larger programs sometimes see more of a benefit with various compiler options (MySQL had a list of good ones last time I checked), but I normally dont use those programs at home.

 

[DnetMHZ]

I have one of my servers running on Gentoo.. Certainly my favorite Linux distro.

If I weren't so attached to OpenBSD all my *nix servers would be running Gentoo.

The emerge system is fantastic...and as far as I've seen the stability is very good as well.

but still OpenBSD is king in my eyes..



good luck

DnetMHZ

 

[TheWart]

welcome, new Gentoo enthusiast!

 

[vash]

ARGH!

Came across some headache, that I can't figure out.

Here are the issues I had. When I first compiled the kernel, I could have sworn I added support of /dev fs. When I boot, it complains, tells me where I need to go, etc. So, I go to recompile my kernel, making sure I add the support, copy the bzImage to the /boot and reboot. When I reboot, still no support. I know with lilo, I needed /sbin/lilo for the new kernel to kick, but with GRUB, do I need to do something similar?

Also, when I recompiled, under X, I get no fonts at all. None, nada, zip. When I launch X, it'll give me a somewhat corrupted screen, but the mouse is functional and I cannot read any text on the screen (none to be seen). This, I'm afraid, is beyond me to troubleshoot.

vash

 

[Tiger]

If you installed as per the docs on page 7 you need to chroot into the Gentoo environment before you config and compile the kernel.
chroot /mnt/gentoo /bin/bash should do it.
I made the same mistake when I originally installed my kernel without parport support.

 

[galt]

I would really like to try out Gentoo, but it wouldnt install. I tried the best I could given the online docs, but even on the fourth try I ran into problems. So much for that. I'll try again sometime. For now, RH 7.3 will do.

 

[vash]

Originally posted by: Tiger
If you installed as per the docs on page 7 you need to chroot into the Gentoo environment before you config and compile the kernel.
chroot /mnt/gentoo /bin/bash should do it.
I made the same mistake when I originally installed my kernel without parport support.

I defintely did that step, but I don't think I added the support for the /devfs when I did the first compile. When I went to recompile the kernel to add that support, all I did was copy over the bzImage to the /boot folder, figuring I don't need to change GRUB at all. If there is something else I need to do, to get GRUB to recognize the kernel, I'd like to know.

With lilo, I remember having to re-run lilo to get the new kernel recognized.

vash

 

[nuttervm]

I'm a bsd lover and want to try gentoo but it refuses to boot form either of my two test boxen. redhat, mandrake, freebsd, openbsd all boot and install/compile fine on those machines so don't know whats wrong with gentoo. sooner or later i will get it to work:0 congrats! for the time beign i'm sticking with obsd as my server and win2k as my desktop

 

[Tiger]

When I went to recompile the kernel to add that support, all I did was copy over the bzImage to the /boot folder, figuring I don't need to change GRUB at all. If there is something else I need to do, to get GRUB to recognize the kernel, I'd like to know.

There's the problem and I did the same thing.
If you installed per the docs there's a boot partition and a /boot directory under /root.
You need to chroot into /mnt/gentoo to copy the new kernel to the boot partition, not the directory under /root.
You need to do this because the boot partition gets mounted as read only at boot time if your using the stock /etc/fstab.