Alkalinetaupehat's 1989 Supra Build Thread

[alkalinetaupehat]

So I own a Supra, and I like it a lot. So much indeed that I'm planning to spend lots of money on it and make it really really cool (and fast).

The plan is to do the build in stages because I don't make as much as certain people with their own garages and a small collection of imports (manimal...cough...)

PIC!

First is the important bits: Engine and transmission.

I just drove my friend's manual Accord and was reminded how much I miss shifting, so an R154 is slated for use. It's a 5-speed manual known for withstanding a lot of power and torque without failing, it came factory in the Supra Turbos, and can be had for about $500. Ideally would like to rebuild it and start with a nice fresh transmission.

Need a bellhousing adapter to go from this transmission to my engine of choice: the L92 Gen IV Chevy V8. Displaces 6.2 liters (364CI) and is the same as the LS3 minus some valvetrain bits. Easy enough to swap over and mess around with the top end during then. Thinking of getting a head/cams pack and throwing on some BBK shorty headers, or long tubes if there's enough clearance.

This all together should net me somewhere close to 600hp at the flywheel, which is a nice step up from whatever I have now (>200hp). The engine is on the way out with a case of rod knock, which is all the more excuse for me to do this!

Stage two will be suspension (TEIN street kit), differential (rebuild and swap for the 3.71 gear), wheels/tires (Enkei RFP01's with 275 or greater width tires all around), and an aluminum one-piece driveshaft + safety loop.

Stage three is making the car look pretty.

The idea is to preserve the factory appearance while accenting it. The engine will be giving off plenty of heat, so a vented CF hood is in. Possibly some functional fender vents and brake ducts, and looking at headlight/foglight options. A lip may also be added, but getting rid of the pre-89 bumper and putting on a year-correct styled one is paramount. The paint is okay and losing it's clear coat in places, and I'm not set on keeping it the color it is. Since getting into a fender-bender (pic below) and getting some body work done on the car, I've also seen the light of brand-new factory body trim and want the rest of the car to match badly. Anybody know where I can buy these pieces?

If I paint the car it'll be a dark blue/red, or possibly a white of some kind. The interior needs repair, which will happen, and I want to fit 6" speakers in the doors and in the back along with a pair of 12's. Considering a roll cage to stiffen the car and make driving with the top off more pleasant.

As always ATG, comments/critique/questions are welcome! Hopefully in less than a year I can get the ball rolling on this and liven up the thread with shiny new things.

Accident:

Repaired!

Genesis of the build thread:
http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2233515

 

[alkalinetaupehat]

Also does anyone want to guess how much the bodywork was?

 

[jlee]

approve :awe:

 

[Arkaign]

That's awesome. I always liked MK3's. Have you taken into consideration beefing up or reinforcing the chassis? I think you'll need some additional rigidity once you're shooting up past 350-400hp. Those cars didn't have quite the huge amount of flex the 80s camaros did, but they're still not built stock to handle that level of twisting.

Bonus points to keeping it relatively stock looking! Extra sleeper points could be made by keeping the stock exhaust tips at the rear, but have the real exhaust ported out just ahead of the rear bumper. When you lit that thing up you'd really shock the hell out of people.

 

[manimal]

Also does anyone want to guess how much the bodywork was?

1 mirrion!

approve :awe:

this!



If I still lived in LA I would be over this weekend to help and annoy you! My friends tell me im annoying around cars since I am a perfectionist.



I absolutely love Mk3s. Your swap plan is solid! Have you priced the engine yet? Curious as to the savings over the ls.

The minute that engine goes in even at stock levels your gonna need suspension and stiffening STAT. Sure it will be fun but man its gonna be unforgiving. Really glad your going with a cage as well. I may be in LA and SD sometime next year to visit some friends so I may peek by!!

I always liked this hood for a mk3.

This is cool too!

 

[Black2na]

at 600whp your gonna near the breaking point of the R154. and i assume with the torque that the LSX series of V8 makes your gonna have breaking issues and go with an autopower roll BAR for stiffness gonna be safer on a street car but add keep the chassis from twisting like your looking for. and quick question why not a 1jz? jlee and i saw one in texas stock block upgraded injectors and turbo on e85 and he was in the 550whp range and that thing was a rocket!

 

[Sunny129]

OP, its always exciting to follow a fellow Supra owner's build :thumbsup:

at 600whp your gonna near the breaking point of the R154. and i assume with the torque that the LSX series of V8 makes your gonna have breaking issues and go with an autopower roll BAR for stiffness gonna be safer on a street car but add keep the chassis from twisting like your looking for. and quick question why not a 1jz? jlee and i saw one in texas stock block upgraded injectors and turbo on e85 and he was in the 550whp range and that thing was a rocket!

not a bad idea at all. another alternative would be to grab a 2JZ-GTE and the Getrag V160 6-speed that goes with it...of course that might be stretching the budget a bit lol. heck, the V160 tranny alone might be stretching the budget...but if you could come up with the $ for one, it'll handle alot more power & abuse than the R154 (and just about any other transmission out there for that matter)....don't know how easy or difficult it would be to mate it to the L92 though.

at the end of the day i like the OP's choice of power plant though...it utilizes a lighter aluminum block (vs the 7M-GTE's heavier cast iron block), and a shorter block (4 cylinders long vs the 7M-GTE's 6-cylinder long block, so less "engine block" will overhang the front axle), both making for better weight distribution.

 

[FuzzyDunlop]

hmmm, more Toyota lovin'!

approve :awe:

This.

 

[ProchargeMe]

I fucking love this supra body style. Looks so much better than everything else in the 80's and early 90's. Keep us updated on progress!

 

[alkalinetaupehat]

On the chassis, it's a targa-top model so stiffening is for-sure happening. I want to be able to drive with the roof off and not feel like the car is going to twist (It rides noticeably worse with the roof off). I got a comment from jlee about making sure the bars are out of the way, and that's definitely something I'll keep in mind. So far a roll bar is looking good, but maybe some kind of cross-bracing would help the overall stiffness. Ideas?

The idea is that the car will be parked more or less until everything is done with it, stages 1-3. I didn't care for driving my first car half-put-together when I had work etc. come up.

The engine is about $1200 (using specific engines for sale) cheaper if it's an L92, and the heads/cam package from Texas Speed that I'm looking at is $1800, so overall it makes sense because the valvetrain is being upgraded beyond factory parts. L92's are $5000-$5500, LS3's run $6500-$7500. I will probably have to buy factory valves, which are lighter in the LS3 vs. L92.

The weight element is interesting. As Sunny129 said, the engine being all-aluminum AND shorter will help the weight distribution, and funnily enough it is within 10lbs of a 7MGTE sooooo...

V160's are difficult to find and often imported from Japan, and at $4000 or so for a used one, I can afford to blow up several R154's or even figure out fitting a Tremec T6060 (~$3k) which is originally mated to LS3's anyways. The point in this was to trim the costs a little and get the project off the ground. Thanks for the reference on the roll bar Black2na! That's precisely what I'm looking for!

As for picking a V8 over one of several very potent inline-6's, it's for reasons both sentimental and pragmatic. When I was young, my dad exposed me to the world of V8's. The first experience was in a Corvette which mom had rented for him as an anniversary gift. Hoooollly crap that was fast. I still remember gripping the seat for dear life as we ripped through some Southern California canyon roads near the house and watching him deftly rip through the gears up and down, hammering the gas and then the brakes, nailing apexes with tires wailing for mercy.

Then there's the truck (which he still has) and the '74 Supreme convertible (owned by my uncle now). The clearest memory I have of the truck is when we found an open road in rural Michigan and proceeded to bury the speedometer and then haul on the brakes because an old station wagon looked like a cop car partially in the field. There's also the countless miles of towing and hauling done with nary a thing but the O2 sensor around 100k.

The Old's was always a favorite, from the sound of the 350 Rocket with a 4-barrel Holley and Edelbrock manifold reaching towards the 5000rpm on straight pipes to the rechromed factory bumpers and authentic Rallye wheels which matched the cherry red on white vinyl interior/top. We got looks wherever we went, and I loved watching the speedometer bobble all over the gauge, telling you that your speed was somewhere within five mph of the speed limit. Still may buy that from my uncle if the opportunity arises. Would love to drop a Gen III/IV V8 in it and see what it can do.

So yeah, there's a part of me which wants to create my own rendition of the V8 cruiser, and sees the Grand Touring style of the Supra as the perfect complement to gobs of power with an unmistakable sound. The practical part of me is looking for a do-it-all solution. I want a motor which can deliver simple, reliable power while still delivering good fuel mileage and comfortably cruising. I dig turbos, that's where the L92 may one day go, but to make my mark and feed the enthusiast inside, this is where I want to start.

Don't get me wrong though, I love the sound of my 7M, esp with a little timing and above 2500rpm. It's a great soundtrack, and has some torque to it. I'm thinking about rebuilding it and just driving as-is to prepare for doing the engine swap and so I can use the entire powerband again. Keeping it under 3k rpm to slow the wear on the rod bearings. 2JZ's and 1JZ's also sound great, maybe without quite the deeper sound of a 7M, but still very appealing. It's a thought I've had to take the 7MGE with it's higher compression ratio and turbocharge it with a ball-bearing turbo, quick-spool valve, and divorced down pipe. Just to see how fast the turbo would spool. Maybe in an MKII...

Gah, now I'm thinking how sick that would be. 7M's are already known to spool in the upper 2k's with iirc just the DDP and quick-spool. Dammit.

Another interesting option is to take a 2JZ-GE ($400 for a long block) and turbocharge it, which many are doing with great success. The cams and oil squirters are the only differences between the two engines, turbos aside.

Okay so enough with the engines, unless I get more questions. xD

Until sometime next March I'm in Monterey, CA (central cali) with nothing but my jackstands and missing toolkit. Not much to do but the mountain of studying and homework which never ends haha. I'll be moving around a bit after that and then when I reach my duty station is when the parts can start coming. One idea I'm entertaining is to get everything sent to Michigan and build the car with my dad, uncle, and whoever else wants to join in. It's up in the air since this is all a year or so down the road.

In the meantime, I'm looking at getting my ticket home for Christmas, brakes all around, and maybe a polisher tool so I can cut the swirls out and get the car really shining. Anybody know how to go about re-clearcoating just the hood? The clear is mostly faded and done for in that spot.

 

[Sunny129]

Another interesting option is to take a 2JZ-GE ($400 for a long block) and turbocharge it, which many are doing with great success. The cams and oil squirters are the only differences between the two engines, turbos aside.

pistons and heads are different too.

The weight element is interesting. As Sunny129 said, the engine being all-aluminum AND shorter will help the weight distribution, and funnily enough it is within 10lbs of a 7MGTE sooooo...

well i'll be...i'm so used to my 2J being substantially heavier than most LS motors that i just kind of assumed that the similarly displaced cast iron block 7M would weigh about the same...guess i should have looked that up first. oh well, at least you'll still benefit from better weight distribution.

 

[alkalinetaupehat]

Really? I thought they just used a thicker headgasket to lower the compression. Are the pistons still good for the same amount of power as the turbo ones? What did they do differently with the cylinder head?

 

[Sunny129]

Really? I thought they just used a thicker headgasket to lower the compression. Are the pistons still good for the same amount of power as the turbo ones? What did they do differently with the cylinder head?

no, the 2JZ-GTE pistons are slightly recessed on the top for lower compression (naturally, being that it is turbo'd from the factory). now i don't recall whether the pistons tend to be the common weak point or not, but i do know that the stock GE block is not good for nearly as much power as the stock GTE block. on Supraforums.com, reliable NA-t power claims seem to be all over the chart (anywhere from 400WHP-600WHP), but the general consensus is that the average limit of the stock 2JZ-GE block is ~500WHP before stronger internals are needed. as for the specific differences between the GE and GTE heads, i don't know. but i do know they're different b/c the GE intake and exhaust manifolds do not bolt up to the GTE head (or vice versa). that being said, a GTE head will bolt up to a GE block.

 

[Mxylplyx]

I was in a buddies 89 Supra about 15 years ago doing 120 on the interstate. He saw a Saab turbo coming up on him and decided to try and keep up. It was an automatic, so he floored it and then pressed that extra power button that Toyota's used to have. It dropped the car into 2nd or 3rd gear at 120, and it shot a rod through the oil pan and killed the engine. He ended up selling it for parts I think.

 

[alkalinetaupehat]

Good to know about the GE vs. GTE blocks, thanks. I swear there was something about a slightly thicker headgasket, but oh well. Still may consider one for some kind of project in the future.

There is an overdrive switch on the shift lever which could possibly cause the transmission to shift to too low of a gear and over-rev the motor to the point of throwing a rod. Sounds like someone was being silly, like when I went up against a GTO 6.0L some months ago, haha.

An interesting development has occured!

I started the car about a week ago and shortly after, the brake light on the dash came on. I checked my e-brake and it was down, and I still had regular pedal pressure. It's done that on and off ever since, but yesterday I dropped off a friend at home and when it happened, I felt reduced pedal pressure. It goes away sometimes after I pump the pedal a bit, and other times after several minutes.

My thinking is that the brake pads are worn or the master cylinder is wearing out.

Thoughts ATG?

 

[jlee]

Master cylinder might be on the way out or you might just have low fluid.

 

[alkalinetaupehat]

You know, a $5 fix would be nice to see. I'll check the level next time before I drive.

 

[fbrdphreak]

Cool project, love LSX swaps.

But unless you put in a monster cam and heads, I don't think you'll be close to 600 BHP. Most of the 6L+ LSx motors put out about 350-375WHP stock and with heads/cam/exhaust hit in the ~425-450WHP range, making for a rough 500-525 BHP range.

Even if L92 does better with its unique heads, it's not going to be 75BHP+ better.

 

[alkalinetaupehat]

The L92 is almost equivalent to the LS3, but tuned for torque since it's for SUV applications (I recall 410hp/417lb-ft tq) and uses a different valvetrain/cam. I figure that by replacing the valvetrain with upgraded LS3 parts, porting the heads, and opening up the exhaust I should be around that number.

A camshaft sold by Texas Speed has a dyno-backed 80whp gain in a lightly modified 2012 Camaro SS.

 

[alkalinetaupehat]

Good news everyone! The master cylinder wasn't leaking and the reservoir was just touching the low mark. Part of a $4 bottle of DOT3/4 brake fluid and we're rolling!

I like these repairs.

I don't know if I mentioned it in this thread, but the engine burns off coolant slowly because of a bad o-ring in the heater union. I recall it being a $40 part from the dealership, and it's not going to burn off fast anyways, so it waits.

Going to Lake Tahoe this weekend with some friends and leaving the Supra at home to save wear on the motor. Gotta love 4-day weekends. Will update this thread with pics if y'all would like. We're planning on hiking, kayaking, and of course drinking and grilling.

Other than that, the brakes are still squeaky as hell, and I'd like to replace them sometime soon if possible. Maybe as a birthday gift, who knows?