Alienware Open-Heart Surgery?

[MalumVeneficus]

Greetings, AT. This will be my first post, although I've been skimming your forums for quite some time. The information provided here has been extremely helpful to my friends and I. Further, you guys are uber, and I'm scared.

So try not to rip into me too hard. This is a thread about a proposed laptop build, and I'm fully aware of how much cheaper a comparable desktop would be. I have no dreamy notions of building a "Future-proof" computer, and I think that my goal here might actually be possible (maybe even easier than I'd anticipated).

Forgive me for galloping in here with all my noob ideas and noob questions, I'd just really like to bounce a couple ideas off ya. I know that the vast majority of regular posters here has far more experience with such things than I do, and may shed light on an idea I'd overlooked.

(Veterans, sharpen your blades, I'm about to mention 2 ridiculous notions: Gaming Laptops, and *wince* Alienware.)

Alright, I'm in my kung-fu stance and ready to fend off the onslaught of flame, so I guess I'll just dive right in.

I want something mobile. Yeah, yeah, I know. But go to hell, I'm a sewer rat and a nomad that probably won't be able to guarantee a secure location for a desk as long as I live. So there's that. (And if you'd seen my fuckin' Frankenstein "Passenger-Seat-Top PC", complete with 100-foot extension-cord and USB wifi card, you'd give me at least a LITTLE credit for trying.)

Whew, long-winded intro. Goals: Extreme mobility, plugged-in-gameability.


I want the Alienware M17 notebook. Link to customization page:
Alienware M17 Customization

I am open to other suggestions, but given my idea, I wonder if you'll even suggest 'em.

In terms of pre-built specs, I want to order this thing with the MINIMUM possible options, with a couple exceptions: I want the illuminated keyboard and the good WiFi card. Whatever.
This includes:

Core 2 Duo P8400 (I love having 25w TRD with the 1066MHz FSB, and I can't see myself needing more than 3MB l2 cache)

2GB RAM (at 1066MHz)

160GB HDD (at 7,200RPM w/ 8MB cache) *free fall sensor

ATI Mobility Radeon HD 3870 (512MB dedicated RAM)


The reason I specifically mention these items is because they're what I'm INTERESTED IN UPGRADING. Before stating THOSE ideas, I will give you my reasons why.

I'd like the graphics card, which is why I don't mind buying this build. I'd consider getting the dual-GPU CrossFireX setup, but Alienware charges $250 for the second one and I'd likely not see much of a performance increase for that cost. I can always add it later if I so choose.

The 2GB RAM is the minimum option, but is otherwise a joke to me. They charge a hundred bucks a gig to upgrade it, so I won't be paying $200 for another 2GB RAM when I can get 4GB of identical (better?) RAM at the same FSB speed from Newegg for $100 (a quarter of the cost). HOPEFULLY I could yank the stock RAM and eBay it or something.

The HDD would make a nice spare, I guess, but otherwise, I don't have the slightest bit of interest in it. The ONLY type of drive I will even consider is a 128GB SSD (or two.) However, Alienware charges $550 to upgrade to a single 128GB SSD, and it's an additional $350 for another one in Dual-Drive configuration. I'll never know why it's specifically listed in a RAID 0 section, to my knowledge SSD's are above and beyond the need for RAID technology. Anyway, I can find such an SSD for $270 on Newegg, which equals 2x for cheaper than Alienware's FIRST SSD.



Now, I'd like to start by saying that I'd really rather NEVER buy an Alienware product as long as I live. They are highway robbers and are an embarrassment to respectable power-computer builders everywhere. They overcharge for everything and cannot seem to establish a linear product line (in fact, to find the cheapest laptop with my requirements, I had to resort to their flagship model). And if you own an Alienware backpack, I'd probably like to punch you.

But I WOULD like to explain why I've chosen the M17. The MAIN reason is that it offers a 25w TDP processor with 1066MHzz FSB for a decent price (it's actually the upgraded processors that wallet-rape you), and that it has a 12-CELL BATTERY! These two features, coupled with the use of SSDs, would bring me a long way toward having a laptop with a VERY long unplugged life. However, I am aware that having a dedicated graphics card will drain battery a little faster (but I would like to have a halfway-decent video card and I can't find the Intel 4500MHD on a laptop I'd otherwise want to buy). At least I'm not going dual-GPU, right?

Oh yeah, and their webcam/mic array, illuminated keyboard, and port configuration is something I am really attracted to. And come on, Facial Recognition is just friggin' cool.

NOTE OF UNCERTAINTY: I'd assumed that it would be a waste for me to upgrade the monitor from the 1440 x 900 LCD to the WideUXGA 1920 x 1200 Extreme High-Def one, because I assumed it would draw a lot more battery power (given equal settings on each). If this is NOT the case, please speak up, cuz I'd drop the $200 on the nice monitor in a heartbeat, as long as it DIDN'T compromise battery life.



So here's the deal. To fully spec out the M17 in stock-form, it'd cost me like 3.5k-4k and I just can't justify that. But, in barebones form (except for the lighted keyboard and sweet Intel wifi card), it would only cost me $1449.

Then, I would yank the RAM and HDD and add:
4gb RAM:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16820231213

SSD (I'd add 2):
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16820183206

Please feel free to suggest RAM or SSDs by another manufacturer, if there's a good reason for it (price or performance). I'll point out that I've heard great things about RiDATA's SSD's, though. Who knows, maybe I'm full of shit?


This would net me the 2 SSDs and the 4GB 1066MHz RAM I want, for under $540, as opposed to the ripoff Alienware upgrades at $1100. Oh, and I'd still have a stock Alienware 2GB stick of RAM and 160GB 7,200RPM HDD w/ Free Fall Sensor to either eBay or re-use (potentially knocking TRUE price down as much as another couple hundred dollars). Without considering taxes, I'd bring all this home for under 2k.


So what do you think?

Do you agree that the Newegg-bought RAM will perform as well as stock Alienware RAM, but for phenomenally cheaper? And would you suggest another manufacturer, instead? I know nothing of GSkill.

Do you agree that it would be much easier to swap an HDD out to replace it with SSDs for VASTLY cheaper than buying Alienware's overpriced SSDs? Also, I doubt it, but would the laptop have to be ORDERED with a 2-drive-configuration to be able to put the 2 SSDs in place of the HDD? (I wouldn't think so, I'd assume they'd use the same piece of internal hardware for either configuration and just leave a slot empty. All the stuff is SATA)

Do you agree that I'm going in the right direction by coupling a P-series 25w TDP core 2 duo with SSDs and a 12-cell battery in an attempt to ABSOLUTELY MAXIMIZE battery life (even if I'm a dumbass with a dedicated GPU in a laptop)? Keep in mind, even if they DID offer a weaker processor, I'd still probably get AT LEAST a p8400 (the fact that it's 25w TDP is the ONLY reason I chose it over the T9400, $250 cheaper or not), because with a 2x-standard-size-battery and SSDs that little bit of power savings could mean as much as an extra hour of battery life, but I would like to have SOME processing power!

Do you agree that 2k would be a decent price for an M17 with 4GB RAM and 256GB of SSD storage? (remember, I'll still be able to sell the old hardware afterward, too)


FINAL QUESTION:
Am I a complete idiot? Did I overlook something critical here? I don't THINK I've glossed over any glaring compatibility problems or alternative options. But nobody ever does, right? Again, please... Go easy on me!

(P.S. I've wondered if this chipset would allow for processor upgrades, eventually... is there any reason I couldn't eventually throw a T9400 or T9600 on it later, or would the change in TDP make it impossible? [further inquiry: core 2 extreme?])

Thanks in advance, all!
~MalumVeneficus

 

[Nocturnal]

Get an extended warranty if you can. Trying to find Alienware parts is a PITA after the warranty runs out.

 

[MalumVeneficus]

Originally posted by: Nocturnal
Get an extended warranty if you can. Trying to find Alienware parts is a PITA after the warranty runs out.

Good to know, thanks! Although I suspect that the warranty would be void as soon as I took out a single screw...

 

[Slugbait]

You've put an awful lot of thought into your first post...

MLC? Lousy write speeds, most have lame read speeds. RiData has one of the worst write speeds of all SSDs, and crap for read speeds as well...very bad choice, you'll be just as happy with hard drive perf, and pay a helluva lot less for it. But I digress: MLC will be dead tech well within five years. Not sure why it's the only drive you'd consider...I would go huge on space, instead of going small with a slow SSD.

Two gigs of RAM isn't much of a joke. It's the sweet-spot for XP32 power users, and is no slouch on Vista32. And you probably won't get better RAM than what Alienware provides, since they usually only provide top-shelf stuff.

I would go with the WideUXGA, cuz desktop space rules. If it's not TN, and the smaller rez option is a TN, huge bonus. With a 12-cell, I wouldn't be so concerned...I think the optical drive spinning a movie will probably consume more juice.

They are highway robbers and are an embarrassment to respectable power-computer builders everywhere.

I would take exception to this. They build their machines with finesse, every detail inside and out. Tweaked. Looks good, runs fast, and recoverable...I can't tell you the number of power-builders I've met who have a crappy case, no interior organization, poor to no system tweaks and no recovery image...and they spent days or weeks building and installing. Boutique companies eliminate the time-consuming process of building an uber machine, so for the professionals who consider their time is worth more than $35/hr, they save money with time, and get down to business right after opening the cardboard box.

 

[MalumVeneficus]

Originally posted by: Slugbait
You've put an awful lot of thought into your first post...

MLC? Lousy write speeds, most have lame read speeds. RiData has one of the worst write speeds of all SSDs, and crap for read speeds as well...very bad choice, you'll be just as happy with hard drive perf, and pay a helluva lot less for it. But I digress: MLC will be dead tech well within five years. Not sure why it's the only drive you'd consider...I would go huge on space, instead of going small with a slow SSD.

I have to say, you're the first I've heard that is anti-NAND flash. I like MLC as an option for several reasons...

First, have you ever used a laptop with an SSD? That one simple change makes such a ridiculously, heinously AWESOME impact on battery life I almost wouldn't care if it was slow. I mean, no moving parts/no heat/VASTLY superior impact resistance seals it for me.

Now, maybe RiDATA is slow, I was surprised to hear that. But I've also considered this item:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16820167005

Or possibly the smaller, faster, SLC:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16820167013

They have nearly twice the Read-speed. Price is horrible, though.

But for the sake of honestly requesting education: Since when is the speed of SSDs slow? I mean, I honestly don't care about write-speeds, in any way, ever. And read-speeds? Well, I guess I just have to say that I've heard SSDs are faster than ANYTHING. Like, booting in 8 seconds. Who said SSDs are slow? This is brand new to me. ALL advertising I've seen for SSDs make them sound like they perform FAR BETTER than any traditional HDD, even 7,200RPM RAID 0 drives. How is it possible that all these reviews of SSDs are wrong? Is "the next big thing" some sort of illusion? Pretty sure they're better in every way possible.

I would go with the WideUXGA, cuz desktop space rules. If it's not TN, and the smaller rez option is a TN, huge bonus. With a 12-cell, I wouldn't be so concerned...I think the optical drive spinning a movie will probably consume more juice.

I actually don't know what TN means. Never seen that acronym in reference to monitors. But I don't claim to be a genius. Oh, and my optical drive will never spin. Ever. I might glue it shut.

Two gigs of RAM isn't much of a joke. It's the sweet-spot for XP32 power users, and is no slouch on Vista32. And you probably won't get better RAM than what Alienware provides, since they usually only provide top-shelf stuff.

Well, 4 gigs for half the cost of 2 gigs makes the decision pretty easy, considering the 1066MHz FSB isn't just going to STOP being stupid-fast...and the partitions containing my Microsoft operating systems will have only the 64-bit versions of Vista and XP. Naturally. Why else would I want over 3 gigs of RAM?

I would take exception to this. They build their machines with finesse, every detail inside and out. Tweaked. Looks good, runs fast, and recoverable...I can't tell you the number of power-builders I've met who have a crappy case, no interior organization, poor to no system tweaks and no recovery image...and they spent days or weeks building and installing. Boutique companies eliminate the time-consuming process of building an uber machine, so for the professionals who consider their time is worth more than $35/hr, they save money with time, and get down to business right after opening the cardboard box.

Yeah, I've met those power-builders too. I don't buy from them and stopped considering them power-builders a long time ago. As far as recovery images go... If a person is ever in a situation where (A) they need a recovery image and (B) they don't have one, then the person is either a complete moron, or unconcerned about their data. I'm a Linux user. I don't need my operating system idiot-proofed, and I damn sure don't need it from my manufacturer.

And system tweaks? I don't PAY for system tweaks.

You must work for Alienware.

 

[Zap]

Hello MalumVeneficus, and welcome to the forums.

Regarding skipping expensive upsells and doing the upgrades yourself, plenty of people do that. I've done that with my former notebook (Dell Inspiron 6000). I saved money that way, and so will you.

Originally posted by: MalumVeneficus
Who said SSDs are slow? This is brand new to me. ALL advertising I've seen for SSDs make them sound like they perform FAR BETTER than any traditional HDD, even 7,200RPM RAID 0 drives. How is it possible that all these reviews of SSDs are wrong? Is "the next big thing" some sort of illusion? Pretty sure they're better in every way possible.

ALL advertising, eh? Do you believe those Apple ads showing how fast the iPhone can browse the internet?

SSDs can be slow. For instance, the SSDs in the Asus Eee PC won't win any speed records. Basically you will want to do some research to make sure you get a fast one. Slower ones will still benefit battery life and shock resistance, but won't make the machine more responsive.

Reviews typically use synthetic benchmarks, thus they will probably get good numbers from SSDs.

The "problem" with SSDs are not the flash media itself (besides cost/GB) but the JMicron controller chips typically used on more affordable SSDs (as in nearly all of them except for the Intel and maybe some Samsung). Those controllers are a bit buggy and in normal day to day usage patterns can exhibit some strange behavior that can make performance tank.

Yes, the Intel SSDs are very expensive. However, not only are they really fast even compared to other SSDs, they do not have the buggy controller, so you consistently get that really fast performance.

Originally posted by: MalumVeneficus
I'm a Linux user. I don't need my operating system idiot-proofed, and I damn sure don't need it from my manufacturer.

Well, good for you, I guess.

Originally posted by: MalumVeneficus
You must work for Alienware.

There's no call for comments like that.

You posted some questions. No need to tweak noses if you don't like the answers. If all you want is to have some one agree with you, then posting in a public internet forum may not be the best way about it.

Originally posted by: MalumVeneficus
FINAL QUESTION:
Am I a complete idiot?

No. Just don't expect everyone else to think exactly how you think.

 

[MalumVeneficus]

Point taken, Zap. It's not my intention to flame those that respond to my thread, either intentionally or otherwise. Please, everyone, forgive my crass sense of humor. I promise you weren't being insulted.

And Slugbait, it bears mentioning that your input has inspired a whole new round of homework-doing on my part, not that it necessarily changed my mind. I should have thanked you for your feedback, it may have made my reply to your post seem nicer.

So...

The majority of my questions have been answered, or at least I've been given enough advice to educate myself into making a much more informed decision.

Pretty much the only thing that would influence my choice is if someone knew of an all-but-identical laptop of similar quality for a lower price.

Beyond that...
Thanks, AnandTech!

 

[Denithor]

Originally posted by: MalumVeneficus
I actually don't know what TN means. Never seen that acronym in reference to monitors. But I don't claim to be a genius. Oh, and my optical drive will never spin. Ever. I might glue it shut.

TN (twisted nematic) panel is the cheapest type of LCD panel in use. They tend to have crappy viewing angles but fast response times so they are favored by people on a budget and gamers (who want zero blur/ghosting during high speed FPS gaming). Read the LCD Thread for lots more details on LCD panels (the first section deals specifically with different types of panels, good info there).

Optical drive will never spin? Ever? How do you plan to install games on your gaming laptop if your optical drive is glued shut? Not everything is available from Steam, yet...

Overall I think you've got the right idea, buy their bargain model to get the basics you need and then upgrade the parts they charge way too much for yourself. I think you might be better off with crossfire 3870s than not but that's your call (most other parts can be upgraded later, that really cannot I believe).

If you haven't already, read the AT review of Intel X25-M where they go into what causes the sub-par performance of typical MLC SSD drives. You might also be interested in this article at bit-tech that goes into the performance of SSDs more (again comparing to the Intel drive).

 

[yh125d]

I would definitely pay the difference to get a 19x12 monitor. I'm VERY glad I did on my m1530, and I plan to never buy a laptop or monitor with less resolution

 

[dmw16]

Seems like your questions are getting answered, but this post comes at a time when I am thinking of assuming a nomadic lifestyle for a while. If so, I'll need a gaming laptop too. Anandtech's home page then under mobile, there is a decent gaming pc roundup article.

 

[wwswimming]

why not just buy one of these HP laptops with a quadcore & 18" screen for $1800 ?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16834147924

 

[Zap]

Originally posted by: wwswimming
why not just buy one of these HP laptops with a quadcore & 18" screen for $1800 ?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16834147924

I think the point of the Alienware was the graphics card. The HP only has a 9600M.

 

[MalumVeneficus]

Originally posted by: Zap

Originally posted by: wwswimming
why not just buy one of these HP laptops with a quadcore & 18" screen for $1800 ?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16834147924

I think the point of the Alienware was the graphics card. The HP only has a 9600M.

Yep, definitely the graphics card. Jury's still out on the dual- ATI3870s, but it's a damn nice card even by itself.

Also, I tend to shy away from the quads. C2D seems to be the niche all my requirements are being met by, and I won't be utilizing heavily-multithreaded applications on a regular basis, so I am reluctant to pay for possible overkill...

I would definitely pay the difference to get a 19x12 monitor. I'm VERY glad I did on my m1530, and I plan to never buy a laptop or monitor with less resolution

Yeah, it's hugely tempting. I still haven't gotten concrete info about its power consumption, etc., but I'm really starting to think that the difference, if ANY, would be so insignificant that I may as well not worry about it. It IS pretty much as good as a 17-inch monitor is EVER going to need to be, IMHO.

Originally posted by: Denithor

Originally posted by: MalumVeneficus
I actually don't know what TN means. Never seen that acronym in reference to monitors. But I don't claim to be a genius. Oh, and my optical drive will never spin. Ever. I might glue it shut.

TN (twisted nematic) panel is the cheapest type of LCD panel in use. They tend to have crappy viewing angles but fast response times so they are favored by people on a budget and gamers (who want zero blur/ghosting during high speed FPS gaming). Read the LCD Thread for lots more details on LCD panels (the first section deals specifically with different types of panels, good info there).

Optical drive will never spin? Ever? How do you plan to install games on your gaming laptop if your optical drive is glued shut? Not everything is available from Steam, yet...

Overall I think you've got the right idea, buy their bargain model to get the basics you need and then upgrade the parts they charge way too much for yourself. I think you might be better off with crossfire 3870s than not but that's your call (most other parts can be upgraded later, that really cannot I believe).

If you haven't already, read the AT review of Intel X25-M where they go into what causes the sub-par performance of typical MLC SSD drives. You might also be interested in this article at bit-tech that goes into the performance of SSDs more (again comparing to the Intel drive).

Hehe, optical drive may be in use rarely, but even the majority of game files/etc. can be firewired... In every day use the optical drive would be unnecessary for someone of my needs. The rest is an exaggeration

But thanks for the point-to on those articles. I may have more to say or ask in reference to them. I will eat a little crow and state that I had not realized exactly HOW shitty write-times were on standard MLCs. But if they could be arranged in RAID 0, they could possibly par with the Intel SSD. And the Intel SSD itself in RAID 0 seems godlike if it's possible. Having never written striped, redundant, OR parity drives before, I'm completely in the dark as to whether RAIDing SSDs is possible, or if it's possible but horribly bottlenecked somewhere else...

SLIGHTLY OFF-TOPIC QUESTION(S):

Any of you guys ever bought/used a Hypersonic? They SEEM to have expensive laptops, but what looks like a hellacious offer of a $299 laptop as a promotional deal when you buy one of their better laptops/desktops. Seems to have "too good to be true" written all over it, even though it isn't all that "good-seeming" in the first place. Food for thought. I haven't read the ENTIRE AT forum archives yet, so I dunno if this is a washed-up subject or not. A thousand apologies. EDIT: Other points-of-curiosity: PowerPro, Crown, Clevo, Compal, MSI, Sager? (I'll be doing my own research too, so just shout if you find a good reason why I should look at one or another)

EDIT: After reading the SSD articles, I'm more convinced than ever before that the Intel MLC SSD is what I'm going to want. But I suppose I am a little curious... IS it possible to set up SSDs in RAID configuration? [Linux Users- When configuring 2 drives in RAID 0 in a dual-boot setup, must each separate partition be treated as its own RAID device, or are the partitions simply created after the entire 2 drives are designated as a RAID 0 device (such as /dev/mda)?]

Thanks, guys, I appreciate all the input.

~MalumVeneficus

 

[Kailasa]

Hi MalumVeneFicus,

A good place I'd recommend going to for purchasing a notebook is Powernotebooks.com. They have been given very high ratings by users at resellerratings.com and can help you find the perfect notebook. Also, their prices are pretty good and they can customize a notebook suited exactly to what you need.

I have never been a big fan of Alienware. Although they used to offer good gaming machines, they were expensive. Also, their customer support wasn't rated highly. Now that they have been taken over by Dell, I am no longer sure how good they are. However, based on my experiences with Dell, I would hesitate buying a laptop from them.

Kail

 

[MalumVeneficus]

Originally posted by: Kailasa
Hi MalumVeneFicus,

A good place I'd recommend going to for purchasing a notebook is Powernotebooks.com. They have been given very high ratings by users at resellerratings.com and can help you find the perfect notebook. Also, their prices are pretty good and they can customize a notebook suited exactly to what you need.

I have never been a big fan of Alienware. Although they used to offer good gaming machines, they were expensive. Also, their customer support wasn't rated highly. Now that they have been taken over by Dell, I am no longer sure how good they are. However, based on my experiences with Dell, I would hesitate buying a laptop from them.

Kail

Hey, thanks, I hadn't yet heard of Powernotebooks.com. I'll be checking them out. So far, I've checked out Voodoo, Vigor, Hypersonic, and several other lesser-known ones. But the story always seems to be the same...starts out looking real good, and then customization is locked into a couple "categories".

For the love of GOD, all I want is to be able to choose my chipset, GPU, and HDD! Hell, I'd even buy my damn RAM from them, if they'd quit offering 800MHz speed for systems with a damn 1066MHz FSB.

Maybe it'll be different this time

 

[Kailasa]

Please let me know how it turns out. I have dealt with them before and found them to be very knowledgeable and helpful. They really care about helping you find the perfect solution, especially working with them over the phone.

I also highly recommend going to resellerratings.com in general to find out how other places have been rated and to assist you when looking for a specific product or service.

Good luck!

Kail

 

[erple2]

Originally posted by: Zap

Originally posted by: wwswimming
why not just buy one of these HP laptops with a quadcore & 18" screen for $1800 ?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16834147924

I think the point of the Alienware was the graphics card. The HP only has a 9600M.

True, but my understanding is that the 9600M GT outperforms the 3870, so sounds like it might be a better option.

However, I don't think that the HP comes with an illuminated keyboard.

 

[BlueAcolyte]

Originally posted by: erple2

Originally posted by: Zap

Originally posted by: wwswimming
why not just buy one of these HP laptops with a quadcore & 18" screen for $1800 ?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16834147924

I think the point of the Alienware was the graphics card. The HP only has a 9600M.

True, but my understanding is that the 9600M GT outperforms the 3870, so sounds like it might be a better option.

However, I don't think that the HP comes with an illuminated keyboard.

The HD 3870 makes the 9600GT mobile version cry, but spars with the desktop 9600GT.

 

[Zap]

Originally posted by: MalumVeneficus
Hell, I'd even buy my damn RAM from them, if they'd quit offering 800MHz speed for systems with a damn 1066MHz FSB.

If it uses DDR2, then it is probably limited to 800MHz. You'd have to find a notebook that takes DDR3 to get faster RAM. Besides extra cost, that isn't necessarily a bad thing because I think DDR3 uses a bit less power.

 

[Denithor]

Originally posted by: MalumVeneficus
if they'd quit offering 800MHz speed for systems with a damn 1066MHz FSB.

You do understand that FSB is reported as "Quad-Pumped" so 1066MHz actually means 266 system fsb? And DDR2-800 runs at 400 system fsb? So the memory is not a limiting factor by any means...

Whenever I spec out a laptop for someone I get it with the minimal RAM & HDD they offer and then install more/bigger myself. Not only is it much cheaper but you also get to select better quality parts than they may use.

I will eat a little crow and state that I had not realized exactly HOW shitty write-times were on standard MLCs. But if they could be arranged in RAID 0, they could possibly par with the Intel SSD.

Heh. Raid0 really won't help much unless you link quite a few drives together on a good hardware controller with its own memory cache (which you're not going to find in any laptop). But if you can wait for a little while, the next generation of MLC drives with an updated controller should begin to hit the market, hopefully addressing the crappy random write problems.

 

[MalumVeneficus]

Originally posted by: Denithor

Originally posted by: MalumVeneficus
if they'd quit offering 800MHz speed for systems with a damn 1066MHz FSB.

You do understand that FSB is reported as "Quad-Pumped" so 1066MHz actually means 266 system fsb? And DDR2-800 runs at 400 system fsb? So the memory is not a limiting factor by any means...

Whenever I spec out a laptop for someone I get it with the minimal RAM & HDD they offer and then install more/bigger myself. Not only is it much cheaper but you also get to select better quality parts than they may use.

I will eat a little crow and state that I had not realized exactly HOW shitty write-times were on standard MLCs. But if they could be arranged in RAID 0, they could possibly par with the Intel SSD.

Heh. Raid0 really won't help much unless you link quite a few drives together on a good hardware controller with its own memory cache (which you're not going to find in any laptop). But if you can wait for a little while, the next generation of MLC drives with an updated controller should begin to hit the market, hopefully addressing the crappy random write problems.

Hey, thanks, man, very informative stuff. I guess I am stuck on one final question, though, in response:

I had kinda understood the "quad-pumped" FSB ratings, but Alienware sells 1066MHz DDR3 with the M17 on a 1066MHz FSB chipset... Are the ratings of the RAM quad-pumped as well (or what are their system FSB ratings)? If not, what is it about the M17 that allows for the 1066 MHz RAM to be used? And what is it in other laptops I should look for to be able to find this same ability? (If they have the same chipset, what's different, in other words?) THE MAIN REASON I ask is because I'd be afraid to buy 1066MHz DDR3 for a system that couldn't accomodate it, thinking that all P8400's could use it... Sorry, just confused.

Thanks again, everyone has been enormously helpful thus far, I'm sure I'm just stumbling over some noob concept I've learned and forgotten in the mundanity of things... So thanks for bearing with me, as well

Search Update: Kailasa, this is sort of a reply to you.

The site PowerNotebooks.com has this nice little 12.1" Sager NP7220 available. This little gem only has a 1280x800 WXGA and an Intel Mobile GMA X4500, but I think I could get past that, considering that it should be enough to push the games I want to play on minimum settings without lag (I'm one of those MMORPG losers, but I'm not a graphics whore, I'm a feature-junkie). And ESPECIALLY considering I can get it with:

Either the P8400 I've been looking at, or for another $165, the heinous P9500 with a lil' more clock speed, a lil' more on-die cache, and the same great 25W battery life;

Up to 4GB DDR2-800 Dual Channel (it says it requires Vista 64-bit, let's hope they don't enforce that) for only $45 more than the standard 2GB;

The integrated Intel PRO Wireless 5300 802.11agn ($25 upgrade) I insist on having;

Windows XP Pro (it'd be nice to have a good clean copy on a partition);

The Uber-Sweet Intel X25-M 80GB flash drive, for an upgrade of $540, comparable to Newegg-ing it;

An 8-cell battery (available as a "spare"...the original is a 4), which isn't a 12-cell and will stick off the back like a Quazimoto lump, but is justifiable considering it will last DAMN long anyway with a 12-inch screen, integrated videocard, and an SSD;

This, with all the trappings (extra power cord, vehicle adapter, etc), will equal just under 2k, which is a far sight cheaper than the Alienware with both GPUs and the 1980x1200 screen with 1 or 2 aftermarket Intel X25-M's. And upgrading to the P9500 for only $165 is a damn-tempting option. It also offers Intel Turbo Memory 2.0 (2GB for $45, 4GB for $85), which I have absolutely NO IDEA if I would want or not. Only works with Vista anyway, right? I have a VERY minimal interest in that OS.

This is POSSIBLY a tasty deal, any thoughts? Or, like, big RED-FLAG warnings, or anything?