Just curious to know how many of u think SETI might actually lead us to find some aliens?
I for one hope we will but dont think so.
I for one hope we will but dont think so.
Aliens
- Thread starter kulki
- Start date
- Nov 27, 1999
- 65,399
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I'm kinda pessimistic: I doubt we'll detect E.T. within my lifetime. But that doesn't keep me from leaving all my computers on 24/7 crunching for the TeAm.
There's a quote from Carl Sagan's novel, Contact, that provides me with some motivation:
There's a quote from Carl Sagan's novel, Contact, that provides me with some motivation:
- "We're just beginning SETI. You know how many possibilities there are. This is the time to leave every option open. This is the time to be optimistic. If we lived in any previous time in human history, we could wonder about this all our lives, and we couldn't do a thing to find the answer. But this time is unique. This is the first time when anybody's been able to look for extraterrestrial intelligence... Nobody's guaranteeing success. But can you think of a more important question? Imagine them out there sending us signals, and nobody on Earth is listening. That would be a joke, a travesty. Wouldn't you be ashamed of your civilization if we were able to listen and didn't have the gumption to do it?"
SETI isn't like cancer research. You'll probably never hear anyone from SETI say, "We're almost there!". There are no measurables to track progress. I guess the only thing you could really measure is how much of the universe you've tuned into, which is course, so far, is so tiny an amount it isn't even worth calculating. You either find a signal......or you don't. It's all or nothing. Because of that, I think it's just as likely to find a signal today as it is in 1000 years.
Well... as they say... If you don't look (or in SETI's case, "listen"), chances are you'll never find... 
I'm not certain that we'll ever be able to really communicate(2-way) with them in a relatively real-time fashion, but just proving that we're not alone in the universe.. that there IS life out there beyond Earth would be an awesome achievement! :Q
I believe we will learn a great deal about the universe with the seti@home project, and as the science evolves we stand to gain a great deal of practical knowledge.
On the subject of Mr. Sagan, there are a great many scientific facts that we have learned since his departure.
For instance, they used to believe the gamma ray burst phenomena was caused by something close to us and therefore was a reletively "small" cosmological event.
Recently it has been proven through the use of the orbiting gamma ray observatory that these bursts are coming from accross the universe and they are better termed "super giant gamma ray bursts".
The part that I think would have interested Mr. Sagan is this:
They say the gamma ray bursts are caused by the instantaneous conversion of matter to energy of something at least ten times the mass of our sun. When one of those things explodes they say there is enough energy to "purify" an entire galaxy.
Any life in the surrounding light year (or so - my estimation) is snuffed out.
There are a lot of observable gamma ray bursts.
So, when Mr. Sagan opined that with the billions of stars out there that there must be billions of planets and that there must be a great chance that life exists on some of them, at least it's safe to say that he did not have all the information. Of course, neither do we yet. That is why we search.
That, and the STATS of course!!!
On the subject of Mr. Sagan, there are a great many scientific facts that we have learned since his departure.
For instance, they used to believe the gamma ray burst phenomena was caused by something close to us and therefore was a reletively "small" cosmological event.
Recently it has been proven through the use of the orbiting gamma ray observatory that these bursts are coming from accross the universe and they are better termed "super giant gamma ray bursts".
The part that I think would have interested Mr. Sagan is this:
They say the gamma ray bursts are caused by the instantaneous conversion of matter to energy of something at least ten times the mass of our sun. When one of those things explodes they say there is enough energy to "purify" an entire galaxy.
Any life in the surrounding light year (or so - my estimation) is snuffed out.
There are a lot of observable gamma ray bursts.
So, when Mr. Sagan opined that with the billions of stars out there that there must be billions of planets and that there must be a great chance that life exists on some of them, at least it's safe to say that he did not have all the information. Of course, neither do we yet. That is why we search.
That, and the STATS of course!!!
<< I believe we will learn a great deal about the universe with the seti@home project, and as the science evolves we stand to gain a great deal of practical knowledge.
On the subject of Mr. Sagan, there are a great many scientific facts that we have learned since his departure.
For instance, they used to believe the gamma ray burst phenomena was caused by something close to us and therefore was a reletively "small" cosmological event.
Recently it has been proven through the use of the orbiting gamma ray observatory that these bursts are coming from accross the universe and they are better termed "super giant gamma ray bursts".
The part that I think would have interested Mr. Sagan is this:
They say the gamma ray bursts are caused by the instantaneous conversion of matter to energy of something at least ten times the mass of our sun. When one of those things explodes they say there is enough energy to "purify" an entire galaxy.
Any life in the surrounding light year (or so - my estimation) is snuffed out.
There are a lot of observable gamma ray bursts.
So, when Mr. Sagan opined that with the billions of stars out there that there must be billions of planets and that there must be a great chance that life exists on some of them, at least it's safe to say that he did not have all the information. Of course, neither do we yet. That is why we search.
That, and the STATS of course!!!
>>Gamma ray bursts happen billions of lights years away which means they're very old. GRB's probably happened here in our own galaxy when it was young. I doubt GRB wipe out any life because since they happened so long ago, life probably hadn't had time to develop yet.
Well, I don't want to be controversial or anything but I had a few more thoughts on this subject and decided to go ahead and express them here. You are welcome to think I'm an idiot if you like
THE NATURE OF THINGS
I guess it depends on a few things that are not really known yet (and might not ever be "known") like the real age and nature of the universe.
One thing we can say for sure is that the universe is a "really really big place" (Thanks Doug Adams) and a lot of things that go on in it are completely unknown to us, far more than the things that are known I would humbly guess.
Such are the ways of "theoretical science", we postulate about the unknown from a singular (earth bound) point of view with very little real true facts to go on. (IMHO)
For instance, are there forms of energy or states of matter that can travel FTL? Many theoretical physicists are now conceding there may be.
If we measure solely on this thing we now view as a constant in the universe called "the speed of light", (with great respect for Albert E.) and it turns out that under some conditions some "things" can move through space faster than light (FTL) or they can somehow warp space and cover more distance than they should while moving at or below the speed of light in the same amount of time (which in practical application would be "FTL" travel) then we might just have to re-examine the things we "know" about physics (again).
Like we did when we "discovered" that Einsteins prediction of the lensing effect was true. That we could see far distant objects as though they were much closer if the light from those objects was bent around a sufficiently large source of gravity between us and the distant object was a great "discovery", one that helped us redefine our universe and our physics.
So, what I'm getting at it just this - maybe we are not the center of the universe, maybe we are not out on the leading edge of it either. Maybe we are somewhere in between.
If you put yourself in the point of view of the location of the GRB then is it not we who are billions of light years across space from it? (just a mind bender, I already know the reasoning on both sides around that argument). Maybe we don't have an "expanding universe" or a "contracting universe", maybe it's something else that we just haven't thought of yet.
What we know for sure about GRB's:
They are really big and really far away.
Gamma rays kill organic life.
SO
If there were any organic life forms within a close enough radius from the source of a GRB it should be effected. Since there seems to be so much gamma radiation at the source of a GRB that radius would be quite large.
We can't say that all life in the universe is organic, so we can't say that a GRB would kill all life within that radius - only the organic life.
There could be and likely are some unknowns, so we can not say exactly what happens. We can't observe the galaxies where the GRB's occur "before they happen" so we can't say there was any life in them.
We don't even have many good ways of determining if there is any other life in our own galaxy yet.
We don't know the true age of our universe so we can not say how much "time" those galaxies close to a GRB would have had. We can not even measure the beginning of life in terms of time because we have no concept whatsoever scientifically of how that process works for our own kind of life, let alone any other kind of life. (organic life, inorganic life, other kids of life?) Everybody has a theory, but we do not "know".
Maybe Seti@home will change this, maybe it will take a more sophisticated, better evolved approach that will be developed in the future. Either way what we are doing now is good in itself, but I view it as a small step in the right direction. We need to keep an open mind and try to keep learning new things abuot our universe, our galaxy, our solar system, our planet and ourselves. -JMHO
THE NATURE OF THINGS
I guess it depends on a few things that are not really known yet (and might not ever be "known") like the real age and nature of the universe.
One thing we can say for sure is that the universe is a "really really big place" (Thanks Doug Adams) and a lot of things that go on in it are completely unknown to us, far more than the things that are known I would humbly guess.
Such are the ways of "theoretical science", we postulate about the unknown from a singular (earth bound) point of view with very little real true facts to go on. (IMHO)
For instance, are there forms of energy or states of matter that can travel FTL? Many theoretical physicists are now conceding there may be.
If we measure solely on this thing we now view as a constant in the universe called "the speed of light", (with great respect for Albert E.) and it turns out that under some conditions some "things" can move through space faster than light (FTL) or they can somehow warp space and cover more distance than they should while moving at or below the speed of light in the same amount of time (which in practical application would be "FTL" travel) then we might just have to re-examine the things we "know" about physics (again).
Like we did when we "discovered" that Einsteins prediction of the lensing effect was true. That we could see far distant objects as though they were much closer if the light from those objects was bent around a sufficiently large source of gravity between us and the distant object was a great "discovery", one that helped us redefine our universe and our physics.
So, what I'm getting at it just this - maybe we are not the center of the universe, maybe we are not out on the leading edge of it either. Maybe we are somewhere in between.
If you put yourself in the point of view of the location of the GRB then is it not we who are billions of light years across space from it? (just a mind bender, I already know the reasoning on both sides around that argument). Maybe we don't have an "expanding universe" or a "contracting universe", maybe it's something else that we just haven't thought of yet.
What we know for sure about GRB's:
They are really big and really far away.
Gamma rays kill organic life.
SO
If there were any organic life forms within a close enough radius from the source of a GRB it should be effected. Since there seems to be so much gamma radiation at the source of a GRB that radius would be quite large.
We can't say that all life in the universe is organic, so we can't say that a GRB would kill all life within that radius - only the organic life.
There could be and likely are some unknowns, so we can not say exactly what happens. We can't observe the galaxies where the GRB's occur "before they happen" so we can't say there was any life in them.
We don't even have many good ways of determining if there is any other life in our own galaxy yet.
We don't know the true age of our universe so we can not say how much "time" those galaxies close to a GRB would have had. We can not even measure the beginning of life in terms of time because we have no concept whatsoever scientifically of how that process works for our own kind of life, let alone any other kind of life. (organic life, inorganic life, other kids of life?) Everybody has a theory, but we do not "know".
Maybe Seti@home will change this, maybe it will take a more sophisticated, better evolved approach that will be developed in the future. Either way what we are doing now is good in itself, but I view it as a small step in the right direction. We need to keep an open mind and try to keep learning new things abuot our universe, our galaxy, our solar system, our planet and ourselves. -JMHO
hmm we should start a poll. Thanks for ur ideas guys. I wish we could find some evidence of E.T. I think that would unify us all as nothing else. All our petty differences would vanish in an instant( maybe a few generations). If if we dont contact E.T just some evidence would be awesome. I dream about it every single night!!!
I just really don't think GRB's are a factor at all. Life in another galaxy a billion light years from us is probably looking at our galaxy right now seeing GRB's that of course originated a billion years ago. Probably more like 10 billion years ago. The GRB's happened billions of years ago. Life has had gobs of time to develop since then.
Crazee
Elite Member
- Nov 20, 2001
- 5,736
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<< hmm we should start a poll. Thanks for ur ideas guys. I wish we could find some evidence of E.T. I think that would unify us all as nothing else. All our petty differences would vanish in an instant( maybe a few generations). If if we dont contact E.T just some evidence would be awesome. I dream about it every single night!!! >>
I dream of aliens every night too, except my aliens look alot like the women of Victoria Secret but err I guess thats a subject for another thread
GRB's are "a" factor. Maybe significant and maybe not. Every cosmological event is a factor. GRB's happen (happened) at lots of different places at different times. We have no way of knowing how long they have been happening nor for how long they will continue.
Everything that happens is a factor, it's "significance" usually depends on your point of view and how close you are to the event.
Since most of us view the universe as though the three pound gland on top of our own shoulders were the exact center of it, the significant events of the universe can be quite insignificant to any other of us. Not to mention what may or may not be counted as significant to some other form of life that may be a million light years distant from that central core of the universe mentioned above.
Everything that happens is a factor, it's "significance" usually depends on your point of view and how close you are to the event.
Since most of us view the universe as though the three pound gland on top of our own shoulders were the exact center of it, the significant events of the universe can be quite insignificant to any other of us. Not to mention what may or may not be counted as significant to some other form of life that may be a million light years distant from that central core of the universe mentioned above.
Wiz, you obviously share my interest in cosmology and I'm enjoying our respectful debate. I've got places to go and people to see right now, but I'll post again later. I'm keeping an open mind to your thoughts.
Edit: <----- 300th post! Woo Hoo!
Edit: <----- 300th post! Woo Hoo!
Last I remember, the top candidates for GRB's were super massive stars, like Eta Carinae, going supernova and having their jets pointed directly at us, 2 nuetron stars colliding and forming a singularity (black hole), or 2 singularities colliding. These events occured much more frequently when the universe was new and more compact. Again, as far as I know, all GRB's originate billions of light years away. For the cosmologically challenged, the farther away something is, the older it is, and the younger the universe was when the event occured. Since GRB's are all billions of light years away, they are all very old and occurred when the universe was very young. Where you are in the universe has nothing to do with that. Folks 5 billion lights years away see our galaxy as very young, but we are actually the same age. Our galaxy is the same age, give or take a little, as the galaxy 3 billion light years away. So, my point is, a GRB has had plenty of time to blast and disappate. That leaves plenty of time for life to evolve. Yeah, evolve. I do not believe in creationism, but that's a debate for another time! I will concede that a GRB could wipe out chemicals in a comet near it that could have carried building blocks for life. In that respect, yes, the GRB had an effect. I guess I'm just disagreeing with the significance of the GRB in the development of life in a galaxy. There's no doubt that billions of years ago, our very own galaxy produced GRB's and we developed just fine. I think life is the greatest enemy to itself in the universe. In other words, humans developing nukes, or worse, is much more hazardous than a GRB that happened billions of years ago. I think aliens have themselves to worry about, just like we do. Not GRB's.
I think we've already seen/talked to them.
Heck, just tell your story and get a free inflatable one
Check out this thread in Hot Deals
Heck, just tell your story and get a free inflatable one
Check out this thread in Hot Deals
I wonder if out computing power might be better utilized in something like finding a cure for cancer.
Hmmm....If it were up to me we would use the money and the computing power to build the first "Enterprise"
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Smoke
Distributed Computing Elite Member
- Jan 3, 2001
- 12,650
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I just can't seem to catch up to all the good threads anymore. On the question orginally put by kulki, "Just curious to know how many of u think SETI might actually lead us to find some aliens? I for one hope we will but dont think so."
I created a poll on that same topic:
____________________________________________
Will the SETI Program receive the long sought signal indicating intelligent life somewhere in the Universe during 2002?
Total Votes: 55
Yes
10 (votes) 18.18 (%)
No
45 (votes) 81.82 (%)
____________________________________________
So we have a few optimist in the crowd.
But only a few.
I created a poll on that same topic:
____________________________________________
Will the SETI Program receive the long sought signal indicating intelligent life somewhere in the Universe during 2002?
Total Votes: 55
Yes
10 (votes) 18.18 (%)
No
45 (votes) 81.82 (%)
____________________________________________
So we have a few optimist in the crowd.
But only a few.
"Better" is a relative term.
IMO, whatever pharmacutical company that comes up with a drug(assuming it is not an invasive surgery) to combat cancer will make a heck of a lot of money. Therefore, I think if they thought computing power could bring them closer to this goal, they would buy a few beast supercomputers and do in a few weeks what the United Devices DC cancer project could do in a decade.
If you want to talk impact to society, I think finding evidence of intelligent life outside of our solar system would be a profound sociological influence. More so than extending some people's lives a few years or decades. As much as I would love to be able to do that, I don't think a few desktops are going to find the answer. I believe it is going to come out of a lab with alot of private funding from people with visions of dollar signs, or to use slang from today's hip-hop music genre, "they be blingin'."
On that note, SETI projects are funded entirely through donations, and my form of a donation is my miniscule amount of computing power. I'm not saying it's likely that Earth as a community will find intelligent life outside of our solar system soon, but I definitely think it exists, and I think the best shot we have is through the SETI@Home project.
IMO, whatever pharmacutical company that comes up with a drug(assuming it is not an invasive surgery) to combat cancer will make a heck of a lot of money. Therefore, I think if they thought computing power could bring them closer to this goal, they would buy a few beast supercomputers and do in a few weeks what the United Devices DC cancer project could do in a decade.
If you want to talk impact to society, I think finding evidence of intelligent life outside of our solar system would be a profound sociological influence. More so than extending some people's lives a few years or decades. As much as I would love to be able to do that, I don't think a few desktops are going to find the answer. I believe it is going to come out of a lab with alot of private funding from people with visions of dollar signs, or to use slang from today's hip-hop music genre, "they be blingin'."
On that note, SETI projects are funded entirely through donations, and my form of a donation is my miniscule amount of computing power. I'm not saying it's likely that Earth as a community will find intelligent life outside of our solar system soon, but I definitely think it exists, and I think the best shot we have is through the SETI@Home project.
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