Question (ALERT!) PCIe 5.0 NVMe SSDs based on Phison E26 controller REQUIRE heatsink

[igor_kavinski]

Failing A PCIe 5.0 NVMe SSD In Less Than 3 Minutes Without Extra Cooling - Phoronix

www.phoronix.com

It is important to note that all E26 SSDs shipped without a heatsink are intended to be used with a heatsink. Most motherboards shipping with PCIe Gen5 enabled also include cooling specifically designed for Gen5 SSDs. We offer the 'bare drive' option to allow customers to use their existing cooling products.

Bummer for those who have a GPU right above the PCIe 5.0 NVMe slot, restricting the use of tall heatsinks.

 

[coercitiv]

Our firmware engineering teams have already isolated the problem and made the necessary adjustments to the thermal throttle curve within hours of the report. However, the new firmware must undergo Phison's strict validation process before our partners can release it to customers. Rest assured our partners will notify end-users as soon as the validated update is available.

Let me translate this for everyone: we a have strict validation process but we never thought about validating without a heatsink to make sure thermal throttling works as intended. So it's "very strict" as in "very limited"

 

[CakeMonster]

My Gen5 slot is in the gap between my GPU and my Noctua D15S, and the gap is less than the width of an SSD, a few millimeters of the SSD goes under the D15S. That means unless the included SSD heatsink on any new SSD is quite low profile I will have to use the heatsink/cover that is part of the motherboard (Asus X670E Hero) design instead. If that won't suffice, I won't be able to run Gen5 SSD's.

 

[igor_kavinski]

Someone may come up with a PCIe 5.0 NVMe riser cable to solve the problem.

 

[zir_blazer]

Someone may come up with a PCIe 5.0 NVMe riser cable to solve the problem.

May as well go back to being 2.5'' SSDs with an U.2 or OCuLink interface and be done with it. The industry already got a lot of mileage out of a Notebook form factor like M.2 is.

 

[Insert_Nickname]

May as well go back to being 2.5'' SSDs with an U.2 or OCuLink interface and be done with it. The industry already got a lot of mileage out of a Notebook form factor like M.2 is.

Back to cables? No thanks. I'd much prefer a simple PCIe card instead of more cables.

Also, most people use laptops, so bigger market there. If you want a U.2 drive, there are plenty of M.2-to-U.2 adaptors available.

 

[Shmee]

Now there is U.3 I believe.

 

[zir_blazer]

Back to cables? No thanks. I'd much prefer a simple PCIe card instead of more cables.

Also, most people use laptops, so bigger market there. If you want a U.2 drive, there are plenty of M.2-to-U.2 adaptors available.

Good thing is that I'm not the only one that thinks that M.2 shouldn't be a desktop form factor.

Also, U.2 is actually clunky. OCuLink seemed the best bet for internal PCI Express cables, and they were cheaper. You can also have OCuLink port motherboard side and U.2 SSD side and use the cable as an adapter itself, that also works.

 

[Insert_Nickname]

Good thing is that I'm not the only one that thinks that M.2 shouldn't be a desktop form factor.

Also, U.2 is actually clunky. OCuLink seemed the best bet for internal PCI Express cables, and they were cheaper. You can also have OCuLink port motherboard side and U.2 SSD side and use the cable as an adapter itself, that also works.

I can't see myself agreeing with that sentiment. If it was just a single cable, maybe. But it requires power too. Before you know it, we're back to the bad old days with cables everywhere.

I'd much rather see PCIe expansion cards like WD's AN1500 for really high-end PCIe 5 SSDs. It's much simpler to install, and size doesn't matter in a tower case.

 

[igor_kavinski]

It's much simpler to install, and size doesn't matter in a tower case.

It restricts their target audience to only a small fraction of the market so the price will be high and there may not be sufficient volume which is why I think these PCIe AIB SSDs fell out of favor in the first place. We need something new. U.2 is kinda the solution but too large. Something like a thin 2.5 inch SSD form factor or even 1.8 inch form factor would be cool, with a heatsink and the relevant SSD compartment having ample airflow in laptops.

 

[zir_blazer]

I can't see myself agreeing with that sentiment. If it was just a single cable, maybe. But it requires power too. Before you know it, we're back to the bad old days with cables everywhere.

I'd much rather see PCIe expansion cards like WD's AN1500 for really high-end PCIe 5 SSDs. It's much simpler to install, and size doesn't matter in a tower case.

PCIe expansion cards were done before, like with the Intel 750 SSD (Which came in both PCIe 4x AIC and 2.5'' U.2 versions). And the problem with those SSDs is that you may potentially shove it up where the sun doesn't shine the moment that you realize than you can't upgrade the Video Card because the cooling solutions grew on average 1 slot. So if you were using a Motherboard that had the main PCIe 16x slot intended for a Dual Slot card with a PCIe 4x Slot following, if you want to move to current Triple Slot cards (And leave the GeForce 4090 alone at Quad Slot), your Motherboard is effectively obsolete. Same thing that happens now if you want to use a M.2 PCIe 5.0 slot that requires that mounstruous active cooling, and the slot happens to be right below where the Video Card is. These issues are unlikely to happen with standard 2.5'' SSDs.

 

[Insert_Nickname]

It restricts their target audience to only a small fraction of the market so the price will be high and there may not be sufficient volume which is why I think these PCIe AIB SSDs fell out of favor in the first place. We need something new. U.2 is kinda the solution but too large. Something like a thin 2.5 inch SSD form factor or even 1.8 inch form factor would be cool, with a heatsink and the relevant SSD compartment having ample airflow in laptops.

If you could make a form factor which supplies both power and data within the same cable, we'd be onto something. If you make the connector "cable-optional" as well, that'd be absolutely rocking. I wouldn't mind a 1.8"'ish form factor like that one bit.

As is, M.2 kind of wins by default. Bigger market.

PCIe expansion cards were done before, like with the Intel 750 SSD (Which came in both PCIe 4x AIC and 2.5'' U.2 versions). And the problem with those SSDs is that you may potentially shove it up where the sun doesn't shine the moment that you realize than you can't upgrade the Video Card because the cooling solutions grew on average 1 slot. So if you were using a Motherboard that had the main PCIe 16x slot intended for a Dual Slot card with a PCIe 4x Slot following, if you want to move to current Triple Slot cards (And leave the GeForce 4090 alone at Quad Slot), your Motherboard is effectively obsolete. Same thing that happens now if you want to use a M.2 PCIe 5.0 slot that requires that mounstruous active cooling, and the slot happens to be right below where the Video Card is. These issues are unlikely to happen with standard 2.5'' SSDs.

That's more of a layout problem, so should be solvable. Most newer boards already have 3-slot clearance between first and second PCIe x16 slot. Some mATX boards manage it too.