Alec Baldwin shoots and kills a woman, injures a man.

Page 28 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

ondma

Platinum Member
Mar 18, 2018
2,559
1,169
136
Then how can they also be charging armorer, Hannah Gutierrez-Reed with two counts of manslaughter, one as a person and one as the armor? Honestly that is some fucked up reasoning. I guess that means that someone with multiple personalities are charged for a crime multiple times, one for each personality.

I guess the way I look at it, is for them to charge 1 count for being the producer, and 1 count for being the actor that pulled the trigger, they would have to prove that he was in that roll/frame of mind at that specific time..

However, I just did some quick research after typing the above, and it appears that multiple counts are based on breaking down of the law (s). For example, in one case I came across from 1964 in Ohio, one count of 1st degree murder, was for "dealing with a murder while committing a felony", and the other was a charge for "murder with premeditation and malice." Two different counts of 1st degree murder under the same law, for killing the same person. So what that implies is each count is based on meeting different criteria's of the law(s), and counts are not determined by each incident/action, position or the number of victims. It's determined by how many times they can dissect the same law into different combinations.

So folks.. what we have learned today is that our laws are like combination locks.. they can have many combinations of ways to charge you multiple times under the same law. Still sounds like some fuckery (manipulation) of how our legal system was meant to work. To me, that would be the same as charging you multiple counts of speeding. 1 count for going over the posted speed limit, 1 count for intent to speed, one count for increased safety hazards due to the speed.. the list can go on and on as many times as the law can be manipulated into different criteria's within the law.. It's kind of how people manipulate the bible to mean one thing when it clearly means something else when it's all put into context. It could be argued that breaking down the laws into different "separate" criteria's, it's being taken out of context.. But that's just my opinion.

Anyhow, most of this was just me thinking out loud so to speak (why I didn't remove any of what I typed after I did a little research)... with a little of .. "so that is how they get multiple counts"..... It has nothing to do with being the Producer and the Actor.
Yes, I think you are right about the multiple charges for one incident. I do think, though, that the fact that he was a producer and the set overall was not well controlled psychologically will work against Baldwin.
 

ondma

Platinum Member
Mar 18, 2018
2,559
1,169
136
I have had enough posting history here that I can say I am not a right wing fascist, quite the opposite. I bounce between heavily regulate guns and just ban them all.



In my minimal firearms experience I have handled enough old single action revolvers to know that is just wrong.

Those old firearms are unsafe deathtraps.



The problem with old firearms is that hammer pull is difficult and strong, and if your a noob like me it is real easy to accidentally discharge. It is also easy to touch that trigger during that hard hammer pull and not realize it. Especially if your doing it one handed and not paying very close attention because your distracted with acting.

Back in the day they used to keep an empty chamber under the hammer at all times because everyone knew they were unsafe deathtraps.
Baldwin personally shot and killed one person, wounded another, on his own movie set, after he took a gun from someone who wasn't the armourer he hired to control the guns.

"Oh, but I was in the middle of pretending to be a cowboy" doesn't really sound like a sufficient explanation nor excuse when there is a corpse not pretending to be dead.


Just because the righties are in their o-face doesn't compel me to weave some insane logic how Baldwin isn't in deep shit for the person who is dead because of him.
However, if I took the gun from an assistant, and he said it was "cold", one would most likely assume that it had been inspected by the armorer. To me, though, that is the biggest frustration of all, that the person who actually handed him the gun and told him it was safe is getting off with a slap on the wrist because he threw Baldwin and the armorer under the bus.
 

igor_kavinski

Diamond Member
Jul 27, 2020
7,562
4,382
106
To me, though, that is the biggest frustration of all, that the person who actually handed him the gun and told him it was safe is getting off with a slap on the wrist because he threw Baldwin and the armorer under the bus.
Yeah and by all accounts, he is regarded as a real prick by the crew.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Leeea

pcgeek11

Lifer
Jun 12, 2005
20,055
3,475
126
I have had enough posting history here that I can say I am not a right wing fascist, quite the opposite. I bounce between heavily regulate guns and just ban them all.



In my minimal firearms experience I have handled enough old single action revolvers to know that is just wrong.

Those old firearms are unsafe deathtraps.



The problem with old firearms is that hammer pull is difficult and strong, and if your a noob like me it is real easy to accidentally discharge. It is also easy to touch that trigger during that hard hammer pull and not realize it. Especially if your doing it one handed and not paying very close attention because your distracted with acting.

Back in the day they used to keep an empty chamber under the hammer at all times because everyone knew they were unsafe deathtraps.

It is a modern reproduction, not an old or antique firearm.
 
  • Like
Reactions: imported_tajmahal

Lanyap

Elite Member
Dec 23, 2000
7,649
1,548
136
You do realize that Baldwin is a gun owner. He had been in western films before. They have gun safety, training etc. It's his job to check a firearm. They are told not to point a gun at anyone. So pointing in the direction is ok but not directly at them. Pulling the trigger in rehearsal is negligence. Then lying about pulling the trigger. Then the gun was tested proving that it could not misfire, it's a revolver.


You have mentioned several times in this thread that Baldwin is a gun owner. I can't find anything to substantiate that claim. What is your source? I can only find where he opposes the NRA and gun rights activists.

 

Hans Gruber

Golden Member
Dec 23, 2006
1,656
754
136
You have mentioned several times in this thread that Baldwin is a gun owner. I can't find anything to substantiate that claim. What is your source? I can only find where he opposes the NRA and gun rights activists.

I think I heard him say that he was a gun owner in one of his many disastrous interviews after the incident. I think they questioned his ability to handle firearms. He didn't say he was for guns, gun rights etc. But said he owned firearms. Said something about being in films where firearms were used and was experienced with the use of real guns and prop guns because of his extensive acting career.

I think it was an ABC interview. Baldwin did several interviews with the media after the shooting.
 

itsmydamnation

Platinum Member
Feb 6, 2011
2,453
2,457
136
  • Like
Reactions: Leeea

NWRMidnight

Platinum Member
Jun 18, 2001
2,353
1,954
136
I think I heard him say that he was a gun owner in one of his many disastrous interviews after the incident. I think they questioned his ability to handle firearms. He didn't say he was for guns, gun rights etc. But said he owned firearms. Said something about being in films where firearms were used and was experienced with the use of real guns and prop guns because of his extensive acting career.

I think it was an ABC interview. Baldwin did several interviews with the media after the shooting.
There are a lot of people who own a gun or guns, who have zero clue how to handle them properly. I lost count on how many friends/family/acquaintances "hey, you want to see my new gun".. as they point it towards you or someone else. First clue they don't know shit about gun safety or how to handle a gun properly. And the standard come back when you say something is "Oh, it's not loaded".... Stupid stupid people!!!!
 

pmv

Lifer
May 30, 2008
11,561
6,419
136
i struggle with the logic of pinning this on the end actor. if Baldwin has been negligent as a producer, failing to implement controls etc that seems far more valid to me.
I would have agreed, but I think bitek makes a fair point above, that Baldwin took the word of the assistant director that the gun wasn't loaded, and went ahead and pulled the trigger (probably!) even though he wasn't handed it directly by the armourer. It depends what the regulations, and 'standard practice' says about that, but perhaps there's an argument to be made that Baldwin as actor should not have done that. It sounds as if that was crucial to the whole tragedy, that that AD just picked the gun up off a table and _assumed_ it was 'cold'.
 

SKORPI0

Lifer
Jan 18, 2000
18,049
1,976
126
I would have agreed, but I think bitek makes a fair point above, that Baldwin took the word of the assistant director that the gun wasn't loaded, and went ahead and pulled the trigger (probably!)
even though he wasn't handed it directly by the armourer.
Unbelievable that he is not being prosecuted. :rolleyes:
 
  • Like
Reactions: ondma

pmv

Lifer
May 30, 2008
11,561
6,419
136
Unbelievable that he is not being prosecuted. :rolleyes:
Yeah, that's the thing that seems most questionable to me - not that Baldwin or the armourer are facing trial, but that that AD got let off.

(The whole thing gives me nightmares remembering times I screwed up when at work. So glad I was never in charge of anything potentially-lethal).
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
31,930
20,891
136
Yes i do and yes i think a number of people should have been charged and convicted. Just as i think Alec Baldwin should be convicted.
You want AB convicted because he is a member of a group righties love to bash. This has very little to do with his actual culpability. I have yet to see ANY evidence he failed to do something he was instructed or required to do.

I refer to my brake job analogy.
 
Jul 9, 2009
10,688
2,047
136
note:
To be clear here, the problem here was not the firearm, it was the live ammunition on set and decision to tolerate that state of affairs.
No, the problem was that Alec Baldwin pointed a gun at a woman, cocked the gun and then pulled the trigger. Because of his laxity in hiring professionals, his contempt of safety protocols and his gross negligence, he killed the woman and injured a man.
 
Jul 9, 2009
10,688
2,047
136
You want AB convicted because he is a member of a group righties love to bash. This has very little to do with his actual culpability. I have yet to see ANY evidence he failed to do something he was instructed or required to do.

I refer to my brake job analogy.
The whole clusterfuck was his responsibility, the gross negligence that resulted in the death of Halyna Hutchins can be pinned on him
 

Leeea

Platinum Member
Apr 3, 2020
2,738
4,124
106
No, the problem was that Alec Baldwin pointed a gun at a woman, cocked the gun and then pulled the trigger.
Baldwin the actor committed no crime.

That is literally what the actor was paid and expected to do.

Because of his laxity in hiring professionals, his contempt of safety protocols and his gross negligence, he killed the woman and injured a man.
Bingo.

Baldwin the producer / manager is guilty. Just like any other manager at any other company that ignores safety protocols.
 

Leeea

Platinum Member
Apr 3, 2020
2,738
4,124
106
The whole clusterfuck was his responsibility, the gross negligence that resulted in the death of Halyna Hutchins can be pinned on him
This is not a failure of one person.

The prison has room for more. The armorer. The assistant director who decided to do a job he was not qualified for. The management offsite who decided to ignore safety and hire scabs.

Lock them all up.
 

emperus

Diamond Member
Apr 6, 2012
7,632
1,322
126
Baldwin the actor committed no crime.

That is literally what the actor was paid and expected to do.


Bingo.

Baldwin the producer / manager is guilty. Just like any other manager at any other company that ignores safety protocols.
A lot of Legal media commentators who's opinion I've learned to respect all think this was an overcharge. Now they can be all collectively wrong or it can just be an overcharge. I'll go with an overcharge.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Pens1566 and Leeea

cytg111

Lifer
Mar 17, 2008
20,654
10,306
136
about that:


What was considered safe enough in 1873 is not what we consider safe today.

second page:

Well, it is a faithful reproduction.

Finger slips on that hammer before half cock or whatever? BANG!



oh, and page 29:


also, page 29:



This is not a modern firearm design.
Every single time taj gets owned, like with this post, he will ignore it, never reply to it, strut around the board knocking pieces over and pretend like he won.
Every.
Single.
Time.
There is no honest debate here, taj is a coward, a troll and most likely a purebred psychopath. There is *nothing* of value to be obtained from this husk.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Leeea

ASK THE COMMUNITY