Question Alder Lake Xeon Workstation Series Release Date?

chane

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These two articles were otherwise informative

https://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/intel-alder-lake-news-rumors-specs-release-date/#dt-heading-pricing-and-availability

https://www.pcworld.com/article/394315/intel-11th-gen-rocket-lake-cpu-power-consumption-not-great-not-terrible.html

Alder Lake certainly took long enough to arrive, however much further delayed by COVID. But as I want to run ECC RAM in my next desktop build, a Xeon processor and compatible motherboard are required, such these Rocket lake Xeon CPUs. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rocket_Lake#Workstation_processors

And presumably this 6 core 80 watt TDP CPU will idle cooler and draw less power than the 8 core 125 watt CPU from the same series.
https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/212263/intel-xeon-w1350-processor-12m-cache-up-to-5-00-ghz.html

OR will their temps and power consumption at idle be nearly identical?

However, no where posted at the Intel website, text from their chat agents or anywhere else can I find any clue for when the Alder Lake series of Xeon workstation processors will be available.

I'm hoping those Xeon CPUs will idle even more cooler and efficiently than the Rocket Lake.

Any feedback would be appreciated.
 

Markfw

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These two articles were otherwise informative

https://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/intel-alder-lake-news-rumors-specs-release-date/#dt-heading-pricing-and-availability

https://www.pcworld.com/article/394315/intel-11th-gen-rocket-lake-cpu-power-consumption-not-great-not-terrible.html

Alder Lake certainly took long enough to arrive, however much further delayed by COVID. But as I want to run ECC RAM in my next desktop build, a Xeon processor and compatible motherboard are required, such these Rocket lake Xeon CPUs. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rocket_Lake#Workstation_processors

And presumably this 6 core 80 watt TDP CPU will idle cooler and draw less power than the 8 core 125 watt CPU from the same series.
https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/212263/intel-xeon-w1350-processor-12m-cache-up-to-5-00-ghz.html

OR will their temps and power consumption at idle be nearly identical?

However, no where posted at the Intel website, text from their chat agents or anywhere else can I find any clue for when the Alder Lake series of Xeon workstation processors will be available.

I'm hoping those Xeon CPUs will idle even more cooler and efficiently than the Rocket Lake.

Any feedback would be appreciated.
Why not go for threadripper ? If you want as low as 8 cores, you can get a 1900x for as low as $100. If you want more cores, it goes up from there all the way to 64 cores. And if you are heat/power conscious , you could always underclock. The new Xeons will not be able to touch the threadrippers in total power. The only thing they hold are single core possibilities for being faster. But in a workstation ? Those need more cores.

AND.... Ryzen supports ECC today, all Ryzen motherboards must support it, so there is that option today also, and number of cores for the recent series (5000) starts at 6 and goes to 16.
 
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jpiniero

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Probably another quarter for the Alder Lake Xeon W to be announced.

Why not go for threadripper ? If you want as low as 8 cores, you can get a 1900x for as low as $100. If you want more cores, it goes up from there all the way to 64 cores. And if you are heat/power conscious , you could always underclock. The new Xeons will not be able to touch the threadrippers in total power. The only thing they hold are single core possibilities for being faster. But in a workstation ? Those need more cores.
Zen 3 Threadripper Pro is the real alternative albeit a much pricer option. Maybe roughly released when the Alder Lake Xeon W's come out?
 

Markfw

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Probably another quarter for the Alder Lake Xeon W to be announced.



Zen 3 Threadripper Pro is the real alternative albeit a much pricer option. Maybe roughly released when the Alder Lake Xeon W's come out?
I was just pointing out that there are currently MANY workstation systems that use ECC, Ryzen, Threadripper 1000 and 2000 and 3000 series, all use ECC and are great options right now, since Intel has NO HEDT solutions at the moment. We just need to know exactly what he does, and budget to recommend one.
 
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LightningZ71

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Remember, if you're just after ECC, Coffee Lake Refresh and Comet Lake Embedded i3 processors still support ECC ram.
 

Markfw

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Remember, if you're just after ECC, Coffee Lake Refresh and Comet Lake Embedded i3 processors still support ECC ram.
He is also worried about power draw, so those are out IMO

His comment "I'm hoping those Xeon CPUs will idle even more cooler and efficiently than the Rocket Lake. "

So I don't think so......
 
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gdansk

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I was hoping Intel would reveal that too. But no word yet.
Typically the Wx80 boards and Xeons show up a few months after the consumer products.
 

Markfw

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Depends on his workload. If he's seriously considering a successor to Rocket Lake Xeons then I'm assuming he's already dismissed HEDT out-of-hand.
I also mentioned that Ryzen supports ECC, so that is the option if not threadripper. Intel just has NOTHING at the moment.
 
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DrMrLordX

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I also mentioned that Ryzen supports ECC
It does, technically. I'm having problems finding many reports of people actually using AM4 platform motherboards + ECC RAM for proper error-correction, though. Yes there are plenty (including nearly every ASRock board out there, I think?) that have UEFI settings to accommodate ECC, but confirmed reports of it actually functioning are scant at best. Some examples of people saying the opposite:

 

gdansk

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Alder Lake has features that I find more compelling than another AM4 platform.
For one, there will be some ATX W680 boards with a proper baseboard management controller. Check the ECC memory QVL lists for some of the X570 boards: it's really hit or miss.
Plus a garbage integrated GPU is better than nothing. QuickSync is useful for Plex or what have you. And PCIE 5.0 boot drive in the near future :)
 

fleshconsumed

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It does, technically. I'm having problems finding many reports of people actually using AM4 platform motherboards + ECC RAM for proper error-correction, though. Yes there are plenty (including nearly every ASRock board out there, I think?) that have UEFI settings to accommodate ECC, but confirmed reports of it actually functioning are scant at best. Some examples of people saying the opposite:

This is what I get on my B550 Aorus Master and regular non-pro 3950x. I was getting same results on x470 Strix-F and AsRock x370 motherboards with 3700x/3900x/3950x. So supposedly it is working.

That said, I don't know what the system would do if it was to encounter an uncorrectable 2 bit memory error - I don't know if it would halt (preferred option) or would just log and continue (bad).

Also, not every motherboard explicitly states ECC ram support. I know from first hand experience AsRock, Asus, and Gigabyte stay true to supporting ECC ram just like their documentation says, however I noticed that MSI for example explicitly says it does not support ECC mode. I don't have any MSI AM4 motherboards to verify, but I would definitely avoid MSI if I were after ECC.

1642183404501.png
 

chane

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I was just pointing out that there are currently MANY workstation systems that use ECC, Ryzen, Threadripper 1000 and 2000 and 3000 series, all use ECC and are great options right now, since Intel has NO HEDT solutions at the moment. We just need to know exactly what he does, and budget to recommend one
Remember, if you're just after ECC, Coffee Lake Refresh and Comet Lake Embedded i3 processors still support ECC ram.
Depends on his workload. If he's seriously considering a successor to Rocket Lake Xeons then I'm assuming he's already dismissed HEDT out-of-hand.
It does, technically. I'm having problems finding many reports of people actually using AM4 platform motherboards + ECC RAM for proper error-correction, though. Yes there are plenty (including nearly every ASRock board out there, I think?) that have UEFI settings to accommodate ECC, but confirmed reports of it actually functioning are scant at best. Some examples of people saying the opposite:

Alder Lake has features that I find more compelling than another AM4 platform. For one, there will be some ATX W680 boards with a proper baseboard management controller. Check the ECC memory QVL lists for some of the X570 boards: it's really hit or miss.
Plus a garbage integrated GPU is better than nothing. QuickSync is useful for Plex or what have you. And PCIE 5.0 boot drive in the near future :)
This is what I get on my B550 Aorus Master and regular non-pro 3950x. I was getting same results on x470 Strix-F and AsRock x370 motherboards with 3700x/3900x/3950x. So supposedly it is working.

That said, I don't know what the system would do if it was to encounter an uncorrectable 2 bit memory error - I don't know if it would halt (preferred option) or would just log and continue (bad).

Also, not every motherboard explicitly states ECC ram support. I know from first hand experience AsRock, Asus, and Gigabyte stay true to supporting ECC ram just like their documentation says, however I noticed that MSI for example explicitly says it does not support ECC mode. I don't have any MSI AM4 motherboards to verify, but I would definitely avoid MSI if I were after ECC.

View attachment 55987
Thanks guys for chiming in. Yes, I've long considered AMD as many claim they are often superior for video editing and are way more efficient. I'd like to attempt to merely delete some offensive scenes in my DVD and BD collection. I've heard that DVD quality rendering is not especially challenging with modern hardware but 1080p BD is certainly far more. More on that later.

But as pointed out by some of you, I've also heard that AMD motherboards are frequently not configured to enable ECC RAM; "hit or miss", as gdansk says here. So that immediately steered me to Xeon. BUT then I read just last week that Rocket lake efficiency disappointed reviewers.
https://www.pcworld.com/article/394315/intel-11th-gen-rocket-lake-cpu-power-consumption-not-great-not-terrible.html

Again, I do zero gaming and would never be anything more challenging that 1080p editing, not at of all often. So would I be splitting hairs with Rocket lake versus Comet Lake, much less vs. Alder Lake on efficiency?

Or would it be a lot wiser to wait another ?? months for Xeon Alder lake to hit the shelves?

About TDP, am I wrong or isn't a cpu with higher TDP better? If TDP means that the chip is designed to work at 125 watt maximum rather than an 80 watt maximum, then won't the 125 watt cpu generate less heat and fan noise when doing a 55 watt work load than will the 80 watt cpu?

Likewise, won't the 125 watt cpu's idling temp be lower, or at least no higher, than the idling 80 watt cpu? If yes, then this comparative review of these two processors seems to say the opposite.


Ditto with the Comet Lake 1270 6 core and 1270 p 8 core?

So who's wrong?

Btw, is it true that Alder lake will run both DDR 4 and 5 ECC RAM? If yes, are the trade offs for cost, performance and heat/fan noise at all significant for my workload versus heat and fan noise criteria?

Finally, I will need another smaller form factor xeon desktop ASAP.

Such as https://www.hp.com/us-en/shop/ConfigureView?urlLangId=&catalogId=10051&langId=-1&storeId=10151&catEntryId=3074457345619771818&quantity=1

or even something less robust, or perhaps a bit too much less.


Thoughts on those xeon desktops for my needs?

Also, please advise on compatible video cards for these two desktops for 1080p performance vs. fan noise.
 
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chane

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Excuse the off topic question, but is anyone here experienced with using the ISO file format for video? I know it's off topic but say if I rip (with AnyDVD HD) one of my blu-ray movies, which invariably has a high quality DTS-MA soundtrack and save it as a ISO file. Could I then preview the "frames", as the experts call them, of scenes so that I could then simply snip out moments of extreme violence or other distasteful stuff, and then save the changes-all without disturbing the syncing or coding of the DTS MA track? And then simply burn the file to a BD-RE?
 

Markfw

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First... A higher TDP is BAD, you want less. For your needs, a Ryzen 5950x would be faster, use ECC, and have a lower power consumption than anything that Intel currently offers at that performance level.that performance.

Since you link a pre made system , NOT DIY, I assume thats what you want ? If you want DIY, post back and we can find a motherboard/CPU for a Ryzen setup. If you want pre made, I really don't know.
 
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tomatosummit

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Again, I do zero gaming and would never be anything more challenging that 1080p editing, not at of all often. So would I be splitting hairs with Rocket lake versus Comet Lake, much less vs. Alder Lake on efficiency?
IF what you're saying is true and you're doing minor video editing then you really don't need to worry about all this minutiae, workstations and especially not ecc.
Pretty much any modern 6core cpu will serve your needs pretty well.

Also if it's just simple stuff like cutting you could do it through remuxing tools that will take video and audio streams and simply place them into container files, with the correct settings dropping scenes isn't difficult and it doesn't involve any actual reencoding which is time consuming and will not reproduce the same quality.

In the dvd case, an iso file is like a container which contains mpeg2 video files.
 
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VirtualLarry

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Could I then preview the "frames", as the experts call them, of scenes so that I could then simply snip out moments of extreme violence or other distasteful stuff, and then save the changes-all without disturbing the syncing or coding of the DTS MA track? And then simply burn the file to a BD-RE?
I've never done that before, but I would think that you would have to re-encode and re-mux.
 

chane

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Apr 18, 2010
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First... A higher TDP is BAD, you want less. For your needs, a Ryzen 5950x would be faster, use ECC, and have a lower power consumption than anything that Intel currently offers at that performance level.that performance.

Since you link a pre made system , NOT DIY, I assume thats what you want ? If you want DIY, post back and we can find a motherboard/CPU for a Ryzen setup. If you want pre made, I really don't know.
It does, technically. I'm having problems finding many reports of people actually using AM4 platform motherboards + ECC RAM for proper error-correction, though. Yes there are plenty (including nearly every ASRock board out there, I think?) that have UEFI settings to accommodate ECC, but confirmed reports of it actually functioning are scant at best. Some examples of people saying the opposite:

Thanks for the final word on TDP. But I'm way too backlogged with badly overdue projects to DIY the pc and the server I also need. And want an OEM warranty in case of any system failure. But if HP or another major OEM would build me a desktop using an AMD processor to match or slightly exceed my needs-and which fully enabled the installed ECC RAM-then without plausible advice to the contrary I'd likely go for it.

Comparing the 80 watt 1270 or 1250
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comet_Lake_(microprocessor)#Workstation_processors

with the 80 watt 1350, 1370 or 1390.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rocket_Lake#Workstation_processors

Whew! Thank goodness I found this:
https://www.pcworld.com/article/394326/10th-gen-comet-lake-vs-11th-gen-rocket-lake-which-should-you-buy.html

So for power draw and fan noise, Comet lake clearly performed better than Rocket Lake on the Cinebench tasks.

So the Comet Lake 1270 8 core 80 watt is the winner for simple cutting of 1080p Blu-Ray video?

Or am I missing something important?

And would the 1270 8 core 80 watt idle just as quietly as the 1250 6 core 80 watt?

Remember, no gaming but can someone recommend one or more great but quiet and not crazy expensive video cards with HDMI output?
 

chane

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Apr 18, 2010
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Remember, if you're just after ECC, Coffee Lake Refresh and Comet Lake Embedded i3 processors still support ECC ram.
IF what you're saying is true and you're doing minor video editing then you really don't need to worry about all this minutiae, workstations and especially not ecc.

Pretty much any modern 6core cpu will serve your needs pretty well.

Also if it's just simple stuff like cutting you could do it through remuxing tools that will take video and audio streams and simply place them into container files, with the correct settings dropping scenes isn't difficult and it doesn't involve any actual reencoding which is time consuming and will not reproduce the same quality.

In the dvd case, an iso file is like a container which contains mpeg2 video files.
This is all great news. No, I want ECC RAM regardless; piece of mind for little or no extra cost is priceless these days-and I am THE king of bad luck across the board.

I've no experience using any video editing software but want hardware with enough 1080p Blu-Ray editing horsepower for when I have time to learn.

This looks like the a primer for quasi dummies.
https://www.videomaker.com/featured/muxing-why-is-it-essential-to-video-processing/

But are those containers acceptable when working with a.) the original Blu-Ray's disc's menu, b.) all of the video of all chapters, c.) the extras (e.g. isolated soundtrack score, English dubbed track, commentary) , d.) the lossless DTS-MA soundtrack?

But how do I visually locate the video that I want to cut out?

And how do all the parts in all the containers get synced back up together and made accessible by the original menu?

And then what do I save the final edit job as? Is it saved to an ISO file and then burned onto a BD-RE?

What muxing/demuxing software would you recommend for doing these simple scene cuts?
 
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igor_kavinski

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I love this thread. ECC and video editing (to cut out distateful scenes or make a best-of cut) are things I'm interested in.
 

igor_kavinski

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  • Up to 64GB ARMOR-RAM DDR4
  • Up to 128GB DDR4
Not sure but I think ARMOR-RAM must be ECC.

Otherwise, you should check out Thinkstation P620. Very high quality, reliable and sturdy build.
 

chane

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I’m currently too involved with my new build to investigate much less experiment with de/remuxing software, but searching [ "demuxing" software decrypted bluray ] with browser search settings for past year yields loads of great hits.
 

gdansk

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