Albany fails NYC again

[Hacp]

The Mayor revealed his plan for Congestion Pricing in April. After three months, the lazy democrats haven't read the plan, and are now blaming the mayor for their incompetence. Ow ya, NYC losses 500 million in federal funding too.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07...tion.html?ref=nyregion

How do NYCers feel about this? I did not post this in P&N since I wanted to reach out to more people, especially people who live in NYC.

The phrase "lazy democrats" or "lazy republicans" for that matter pretty much aims this thread toward P&N. So sent. Anandtech Moderator DrPizza

 

[George P Burdell]

WRONG FORUM

 

[xospec1alk]

i hate the fact that albany gets to dictate what nyc gets to do...pisses me off...

congestion pricing would have been a great thing for our city

 

[lupi]

And you're complaining about this.

Last thing I'd want to do is pay some backward ass tax to alleviate a situation caused by the lawmakers taking no action for decades to get ahead of the situation.

 

[xospec1alk]

theres no reason to drive in this city...the public transportation is top, and walking is always an option.

if you live outside manhattan, driving into the city to work is just monumentally stupid...

if you need to drive out of the city to work, well....if you're living in the city, you can probably afford to pay the 8 bucks a day in tolls.

above all else...i rarely drive in the city, and more often than not...its an exercise in restraint.

 

[xospec1alk]

DP

 

[Coquito]

Originally posted by: xospec1alk
theres no reason to drive in this city...the public transportation is top, and walking is always an option.

if you live outside manhattan, driving into the city to work is just monumentally stupid...

if you need to drive out of the city to work, well....if you're living in the city, you can probably afford to pay the 8 bucks a day in tolls.

above all else...i rarely drive in the city, and more often than not...its an exercise in restraint.

Correct. :thumbsup:

$4 to St. Mark's & back for happy hour. As much as I would like to run over all those people in that neighborhood, I'm glad I got home so quickly.

 

[StevenYoo]

Originally posted by: xospec1alk
if you need to drive out of the city to work, well....if you're living in the city, you can probably afford to pay the 8 bucks a day in tolls.

i don't understand people that live in the city and work outside the city. It seems like a tremendously dumb thing to me. If you have an SO that works in the city, that's fine.. but otherwise that is retarded.

I really hope this congestion pricing thing works out for us in the end

 

[xospec1alk]

hey, i live in the city, but work outside the city....but i take the train to get there...

 

[JEDI]

Originally posted by: Hacp
The Mayor revealed his plan for Congestion Pricing in April. After three months, the lazy democrats haven't read the plan, and are now blaming the mayor for their incompetence. Ow ya, NYC losses 500 million in federal funding too.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07...tion.html?ref=nyregion

How do NYCers feel about this? I did not post this in P&N since I wanted to reach out to more people, especially people who live in NYC.

"to charge a fee to drivers entering the busiest parts of Manhattan"

wtf?! raise taxes to increase revenue.

that;'s almost as bad as Virginia increasing fines to $3000 for a traffic offense.

 

[TruePaige]

Originally posted by: JEDI

Originally posted by: Hacp
The Mayor revealed his plan for Congestion Pricing in April. After three months, the lazy democrats haven't read the plan, and are now blaming the mayor for their incompetence. Ow ya, NYC losses 500 million in federal funding too.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07...tion.html?ref=nyregion

How do NYCers feel about this? I did not post this in P&N since I wanted to reach out to more people, especially people who live in NYC.

"to charge a fee to drivers entering the busiest parts of Manhattan"

wtf?! raise taxes to increase revenue.

that;'s almost as bad as Virginia increasing fines to $3000 for a traffic offense.

*sigh* I miss living in VA.

I live in ME. It's cold.

But Weed is Decriminalized.

I guess it's an exercise in balance.

 

[nageov3t]

I wouldn't call them lazy, so much as they're using it as an excuse to not vote for something that would aggravate the majority of their constituents, if they represent areas outside of manhattan proper itself.

I think it's a great idea, but I've also never taken a car into the city after living less than 10 miles away from it for more than half my life.

 

[Hacp]

Originally posted by: JEDI

Originally posted by: Hacp
The Mayor revealed his plan for Congestion Pricing in April. After three months, the lazy democrats haven't read the plan, and are now blaming the mayor for their incompetence. Ow ya, NYC losses 500 million in federal funding too.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07...tion.html?ref=nyregion

How do NYCers feel about this? I did not post this in P&N since I wanted to reach out to more people, especially people who live in NYC.

"to charge a fee to drivers entering the busiest parts of Manhattan"

wtf?! raise taxes to increase revenue.

that;'s almost as bad as Virginia increasing fines to $3000 for a traffic offense.

It increases revenue to provide for improvements in mass transit. It encourages more people to use mass transit, and less people to drive. It unclogs city streets.

 

[LongTimePCUser]

The details in the plan were flawed. The plan simply would not reduce commuter traffic into Manhattan.

People living in New York City were to be charged $8 to drive into Manhattan. People living in New Jersey were to be given credit for the $4 they pay to go over the bridges. New Jersey residents were to pay $4 / day for the congestion tax. New York City residents get to pay $8 / day.

The econonmics of the situation simply would not slow down New Jersey people who commute in by SUV to the city. Right now they pay $30 - $40 / day to park, plus on average 2 gallons of gas ($7) + $4 for the bridge. If they are paying close to $50 to commute into Manhattan today do you think that they will change their plans over an additional $4/ day?

If they want to reduce congestion and air pollution they need to charge at least $20 / day and they should reduce that to $10 for hybrid / low pollution cars.

They also need to charge everyone the same fees. Right now the Bloomberg's plan is much more expensive for NYC residents than it is for New Jersey residents.

Maybe he is really the mayor of Newark.

 

[Hacp]

Originally posted by: LongTimePCUser
The details in the plan were flawed. The plan simply would not reduce commuter traffic into Manhattan.

People living in New York City were to be charged $8 to drive into Manhattan. People living in New Jersey were to be given credit for the $4 they pay to go over the bridges. New Jersey residents were to pay $4 / day for the congestion tax. New York City residents get to pay $8 / day.

The econonmics of the situation simply would not slow down New Jersey people who commute in by SUV to the city. Right now they pay $30 - $40 / day to park, plus on average 2 gallons of gas ($7) + $4 for the bridge. If they are paying close to $50 to commute into Manhattan today do you think that they will change their plans over an additional $4/ day?

If they want to reduce congestion and air pollution they need to charge at least $20 / day and they should reduce that to $10 for hybrid / low pollution cars.

They also need to charge everyone the same fees. Right now the Bloomberg's plan is much more expensive for NYC residents than it is for New Jersey residents.

Maybe he is really the mayor of Newark.

New Jersey residents who take the Holland tunnel will only pay 2 dollars extra. It might not slow them down, but it will certainly pay for subway system improvements. It will also encourage people who drive from the outer boroughs to take the subway.

They can't charge New Jersey people extra, since many of them need to take the their cars to work. They don't have subway systems. New York Residents do have the subway system, and they should use it.

 

[LongTimePCUser]

Lots of people commute into Manhattan from New Jersey by bus, Path trains and NJ transit. They could part at a commuter train station and take a train to work. But, I am sure they think that would make their commute much worse. Right now their drive into and out of Manhattan in rush hour traffic must be horrible. If that drive is better than the commuter trains, then probably the best way to reduce the mid town traffic would be to dramatically improve the commuter trains or to make driving into mid town much more expensive. That $4 congestion tax will not change anything.

By the way, I thought that the Holland Tunnel with EZ-Pass was about $4 just like the GW Bridge and Lincoln Tunnels.

Originally posted by: Hacp

Originally posted by: LongTimePCUser
New Jersey residents who take the Holland tunnel will only pay 2 dollars extra. It might not slow them down, but it will certainly pay for subway system improvements. It will also encourage people who drive from the outer boroughs to take the subway.

They can't charge New Jersey people extra, since many of them need to take the their cars to work. They don't have subway systems. New York Residents do have the subway system, and they should use it.

 

[jman19]

Originally posted by: JEDI

Originally posted by: Hacp
The Mayor revealed his plan for Congestion Pricing in April. After three months, the lazy democrats haven't read the plan, and are now blaming the mayor for their incompetence. Ow ya, NYC losses 500 million in federal funding too.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07...tion.html?ref=nyregion

How do NYCers feel about this? I did not post this in P&N since I wanted to reach out to more people, especially people who live in NYC.

"to charge a fee to drivers entering the busiest parts of Manhattan"

wtf?! raise taxes to increase revenue.

that;'s almost as bad as Virginia increasing fines to $3000 for a traffic offense.

The point of the legislation ------>

Your head ------------------------->

It's not just a matter of revenue, but of decreasing traffic congestion. Driving in Manhattan during rush hour is a joke. You can walk faster than you can travel in a car...

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: jman19

Originally posted by: JEDI

Originally posted by: Hacp
The Mayor revealed his plan for Congestion Pricing in April. After three months, the lazy democrats haven't read the plan, and are now blaming the mayor for their incompetence. Ow ya, NYC losses 500 million in federal funding too.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07...tion.html?ref=nyregion

How do NYCers feel about this? I did not post this in P&N since I wanted to reach out to more people, especially people who live in NYC.

"to charge a fee to drivers entering the busiest parts of Manhattan"

wtf?! raise taxes to increase revenue.

that;'s almost as bad as Virginia increasing fines to $3000 for a traffic offense.

The point of the legislation ------>

Your head ------------------------->

It's not just a matter of revenue, but of decreasing traffic congestion. Driving in Manhattan during rush hour is a joke. You can walk faster than you can travel in a car...

and that is by choice.

This "legislation" woud've simply made the city only accessible by car for the rich probably like Bloomberg and yourself while leaving all the other poor saps with even more monsterous commute times to get to work and home.

 

[jman19]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: jman19

Originally posted by: JEDI

Originally posted by: Hacp
The Mayor revealed his plan for Congestion Pricing in April. After three months, the lazy democrats haven't read the plan, and are now blaming the mayor for their incompetence. Ow ya, NYC losses 500 million in federal funding too.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07...tion.html?ref=nyregion

How do NYCers feel about this? I did not post this in P&N since I wanted to reach out to more people, especially people who live in NYC.

"to charge a fee to drivers entering the busiest parts of Manhattan"

wtf?! raise taxes to increase revenue.

that;'s almost as bad as Virginia increasing fines to $3000 for a traffic offense.

The point of the legislation ------>

Your head ------------------------->

It's not just a matter of revenue, but of decreasing traffic congestion. Driving in Manhattan during rush hour is a joke. You can walk faster than you can travel in a car...

and that is by choice.

This "legislation" woud've simply made the city only accessible by car for the rich probably like Bloomberg and yourself while leaving all the other poor saps with even more monsterous commute times to get to work and home.

Yeah I'm a rich fat cat... :roll:

You know nothing about me at all and you spout off nonsense like this - isn't that trolling?

News flash buddy, most of the people riding the trains have less money than the people who can afford to own a car, much less garage one and pay the insurance on one.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: jman19

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: jman19

Originally posted by: JEDI

Originally posted by: Hacp
The Mayor revealed his plan for Congestion Pricing in April. After three months, the lazy democrats haven't read the plan, and are now blaming the mayor for their incompetence. Ow ya, NYC losses 500 million in federal funding too.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07...tion.html?ref=nyregion

How do NYCers feel about this? I did not post this in P&N since I wanted to reach out to more people, especially people who live in NYC.

"to charge a fee to drivers entering the busiest parts of Manhattan"

wtf?! raise taxes to increase revenue.

that;'s almost as bad as Virginia increasing fines to $3000 for a traffic offense.

The point of the legislation ------>

Your head ------------------------->

It's not just a matter of revenue, but of decreasing traffic congestion. Driving in Manhattan during rush hour is a joke. You can walk faster than you can travel in a car...

and that is by choice.

This "legislation" woud've simply made the city only accessible by car for the rich probably like Bloomberg and yourself while leaving all the other poor saps with even more monsterous commute times to get to work and home.

Yeah I'm a rich fat cat... :roll:

You know nothing about me at all and you spout off nonsense like this - isn't that trolling?

News flash buddy, most of the people riding the trains have less money than the people who can afford to own a car, much less garage one and pay the insurance on one.

Your one sentence right there confirms you are in fact a "fat cat". :thumbsdown:

 

[jman19]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: jman19

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: jman19

Originally posted by: JEDI

Originally posted by: Hacp
The Mayor revealed his plan for Congestion Pricing in April. After three months, the lazy democrats haven't read the plan, and are now blaming the mayor for their incompetence. Ow ya, NYC losses 500 million in federal funding too.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07...tion.html?ref=nyregion

How do NYCers feel about this? I did not post this in P&N since I wanted to reach out to more people, especially people who live in NYC.

"to charge a fee to drivers entering the busiest parts of Manhattan"

wtf?! raise taxes to increase revenue.

that;'s almost as bad as Virginia increasing fines to $3000 for a traffic offense.

The point of the legislation ------>

Your head ------------------------->

It's not just a matter of revenue, but of decreasing traffic congestion. Driving in Manhattan during rush hour is a joke. You can walk faster than you can travel in a car...

and that is by choice.

This "legislation" woud've simply made the city only accessible by car for the rich probably like Bloomberg and yourself while leaving all the other poor saps with even more monsterous commute times to get to work and home.

Yeah I'm a rich fat cat... :roll:

You know nothing about me at all and you spout off nonsense like this - isn't that trolling?

News flash buddy, most of the people riding the trains have less money than the people who can afford to own a car, much less garage one and pay the insurance on one.

Your one sentence right there confirms you are in fact a "fat cat". :thumbsdown:

I ride the train to work every day - I don't even own a car!

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: jman19

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: jman19

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: jman19

Originally posted by: JEDI

Originally posted by: Hacp
The Mayor revealed his plan for Congestion Pricing in April. After three months, the lazy democrats haven't read the plan, and are now blaming the mayor for their incompetence. Ow ya, NYC losses 500 million in federal funding too.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07...tion.html?ref=nyregion

How do NYCers feel about this? I did not post this in P&N since I wanted to reach out to more people, especially people who live in NYC.

"to charge a fee to drivers entering the busiest parts of Manhattan"

wtf?! raise taxes to increase revenue.

that;'s almost as bad as Virginia increasing fines to $3000 for a traffic offense.

The point of the legislation ------>

Your head ------------------------->

It's not just a matter of revenue, but of decreasing traffic congestion. Driving in Manhattan during rush hour is a joke. You can walk faster than you can travel in a car...

and that is by choice.

This "legislation" woud've simply made the city only accessible by car for the rich probably like Bloomberg and yourself while leaving all the other poor saps with even more monsterous commute times to get to work and home.

Yeah I'm a rich fat cat... :roll:

You know nothing about me at all and you spout off nonsense like this - isn't that trolling?

News flash buddy, most of the people riding the trains have less money than the people who can afford to own a car, much less garage one and pay the insurance on one.

Your one sentence right there confirms you are in fact a "fat cat". :thumbsdown:

I ride the train to work every day - I don't even own a car!

So why were you for the legislation and whining about it's demise???

 

[jman19]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: jman19

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: jman19

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: jman19

Originally posted by: JEDI

Originally posted by: Hacp
The Mayor revealed his plan for Congestion Pricing in April. After three months, the lazy democrats haven't read the plan, and are now blaming the mayor for their incompetence. Ow ya, NYC losses 500 million in federal funding too.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07...tion.html?ref=nyregion

How do NYCers feel about this? I did not post this in P&N since I wanted to reach out to more people, especially people who live in NYC.

"to charge a fee to drivers entering the busiest parts of Manhattan"

wtf?! raise taxes to increase revenue.

that;'s almost as bad as Virginia increasing fines to $3000 for a traffic offense.

The point of the legislation ------>

Your head ------------------------->

It's not just a matter of revenue, but of decreasing traffic congestion. Driving in Manhattan during rush hour is a joke. You can walk faster than you can travel in a car...

and that is by choice.

This "legislation" woud've simply made the city only accessible by car for the rich probably like Bloomberg and yourself while leaving all the other poor saps with even more monsterous commute times to get to work and home.

Yeah I'm a rich fat cat... :roll:

You know nothing about me at all and you spout off nonsense like this - isn't that trolling?

News flash buddy, most of the people riding the trains have less money than the people who can afford to own a car, much less garage one and pay the insurance on one.

Your one sentence right there confirms you are in fact a "fat cat". :thumbsdown:

I ride the train to work every day - I don't even own a car!

So why were you for the legislation and whining about it's demise???

The revenues from this can go to providing better public transportation services and hopefully fend off fare hikes - something the poor people of the city DEFINITELY do not want.

The times I have had to get somewhere in the city by car or bus during rush hour it has been a nightmare.

 

[glugglug]

While I agree that in general Albany screws the city over, in this case I'm GLAD they aren't going along with the plan.

BTW, almost all the "lazy democrats" in NY state are in NYC. Upstate, including Albany, is extremely red.

The plan is insanely ill-conceived and stupid, even for Bloomberg.

First of all, anyone who has an alternative to driving into the city ALREADY IS using that alternative, because the roads here are insanely bad and make it quite an unpleasant and slow drive. So the tolls won't have any effect on what percentage of commuters are driving in, because it is already limited only to those for whom it is a necessity.

If you've driven any of the toll roads in the area (of which there are dozens), you've no doubt noticed that toll booths CAUSE most of the congestion. The mayor's plan ensures that the traffic will be backed up for over 20 miles all the way from 86th street past the Tappan Zee bridge. It will in fact exacerbate the asthma problem he said it aim's to reduce in Harlem & the Bronx as those areas will become a parking lot. Long term, the only congestion reducing effect of this plan will be that people and businesses will leave the city, drastically reducing the tax base.

Even if his fantasy came true and it did make people take the train instead, the trains are already filled past capacity, anyways, and are far from reliable, and have been getting steadily worse since he entered office 5 years ago. Maybe they should look into air conditioning the trains first to make people more tempted to them before this other idiocy? Or better yet, why the h!ll hasn't the city & state sued Con Edison yet for their thousands of failures, including the constant brownouts for half of Queens that cause signal failures for the MTA almost every day, and cause them to run the trains slower? (and maybe the A/C is off because they aren't getting enough power?)

 

[jman19]

Originally posted by: glugglug
While I agree that in general Albany screws the city over, in this case I'm GLAD they aren't going along with the plan.

BTW, almost all the "lazy democrats" in NY state are in NYC. Upstate, including Albany, is extremely red.

The plan is insanely ill-conceived and stupid, even for Bloomberg.

First of all, anyone who has an alternative to driving into the city ALREADY IS using that alternative, because the roads here are insanely bad and make it quite an unpleasant and slow drive. So the tolls won't have any effect on what percentage of commuters are driving in, because it is already limited only to those for whom it is a necessity.

If you've driven any of the toll roads in the area (of which there are dozens), you've no doubt noticed that toll booths CAUSE most of the congestion. The mayor's plan ensures that the traffic will be backed up for over 20 miles all the way from 86th street past the Tappan Zee bridge. It will in fact exacerbate the asthma problem he said it aim's to reduce in Harlem & the Bronx as those areas will become a parking lot. Long term, the only congestion reducing effect of this plan will be that people and businesses will leave the city, drastically reducing the tax base.

Even if his fantasy came true and it did make people take the train instead, the trains are already filled past capacity, anyways, and are far from reliable, and have been getting steadily worse since he entered office 5 years ago. Maybe they should look into air conditioning the trains first to make people more tempted to them before this other idiocy? Or better yet, why the h!ll hasn't the city & state sued Con Edison yet for their thousands of failures, including the constant brownouts for half of Queens that cause signal failures for the MTA almost every day, and cause them to run the trains slower? (and maybe the A/C is off because they aren't getting enough power?)

Why would they use standard toll booths? London doesn't. They have cameras that read off of license plates. If you don't pay your fee, you get a ticket from the city.

Trains past capacity? Yes, that is true, but the city has plans to develop more lines. They are digging on second avenue right now. Also, I don't know what trains you take, but the ones I am on every day are definitely air conditioned.