Alabama vs. California...

GTaudiophile

Lifer
Oct 24, 2000
29,767
33
81
Alabama:

People elect Judge Roy Moore. Moore displays 10 Commandments. Moore loses job.

California:

Mayor of SF breaks law, allows gays to web, nothing happens.

Where's the sense in all this?
 

TheBDB

Diamond Member
Jan 26, 2002
3,176
0
0
Both are about protecting peoples liberties?

Edit: I don't know if liberties is the right word. Maybe equal rights would be a better term.
 

SuperTool

Lifer
Jan 25, 2000
14,000
2
0
Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
Alabama:

People elect Judge Roy Moore. Moore displays 10 Commandments. Moore loses job.

California:

Mayor of SF breaks law, allows gays to web, nothing happens.

Where's the sense in all this?

Then again, Bush is not supporting an ammendment to ban displays of 10 commandments either.
 

BaliBabyDoc

Lifer
Jan 20, 2001
10,737
0
0
Moore's exercise in religion forced everyone to view HIS vision of American jurisprudence . . . that somehow HIS God's law was THE law. Moore's distortion (and disregard) for the law has direct repercussions for all people that come before the court . . . not only through his direct actions with regards to the commandments but by nature of his position as an authority with the judiciary.

In San Francisco, no one is forced to practice homosexuality or condone homosexuality. Newsom is certainly disregarding the law but his disregard for the law has absolutely no ramifications for anyone other than homosexuals. In the process, Newsom is upholding arguably the most important principles in our system . . . equality and justice.

No reasonable person believes the letter of the law has primacy over our Constitution. It doesn't matter if Moore is elected, selected, or dejected . . . he doesn't make the law he is responsible for executing the law. Accordingly, it makes sense to send him packing when he wants to do it on his religious whims instead of Constitutional guidance. Newsom should be held accountable for his blatant disregard for the laws of California. By the same token, he deserves accolades for fighting for a minority being faced with the tyranny of the majority.
 

Mill

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
28,558
3
81
Well Kerry and Edwards said that gay marriage should be up to the states, so why shouldn't the ten commandments be up to the states? Most Alabamians wanted the commandments to remain. Personally I didn't care either way.
 

SViscusi

Golden Member
Apr 12, 2000
1,200
8
81
Originally posted by: Mill
Well Kerry and Edwards said that gay marriage should be up to the states, so why shouldn't the ten commandments be up to the states? Most Alabamians wanted the commandments to remain. Personally I didn't care either way.

It ceases to be a states rights issue when it violates the Constitution. That's why slavery or abortion isn't a states rights issue. It has yet to be found how a mayor marrying granting gay couples marriage certificates does the same, hence the push for a constitutional amendment defining marrige.
 

Genesys

Golden Member
Nov 10, 2003
1,536
0
0
Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc
Moore's exercise in religion forced everyone to view HIS vision of American jurisprudence . . . that somehow HIS God's law was THE law. Moore's distortion (and disregard) for the law has direct repercussions for all people that come before the court . . . not only through his direct actions with regards to the commandments but by nature of his position as an authority with the judiciary.

In San Francisco, no one is forced to practice homosexuality or condone homosexuality. Newsom is certainly disregarding the law but his disregard for the law has absolutely no ramifications for anyone other than homosexuals. In the process, Newsom is upholding arguably the most important principles in our system . . . equality and justice.

No reasonable person believes the letter of the law has primacy over our Constitution. It doesn't matter if Moore is elected, selected, or dejected . . . he doesn't make the law he is responsible for executing the law. Accordingly, it makes sense to send him packing when he wants to do it on his religious whims instead of Constitutional guidance. Newsom should be held accountable for his blatant disregard for the laws of California. By the same token, he deserves accolades for fighting for a minority being faced with the tyranny of the majority.

Umm...most of the laws in all legal systems in most countries are based off religious principles. Not only that, but the decalogue is also accepted by Judaism, and are generally accepted by most people on earth to be good priniples to live by. No where did Moore say [or IMO suggest] that his God's law was the law of the land, but obviously some people misinterpreted his actions as such. Basically he was presenting a monument to the source where our laws are based. Plain and simple. He was not trying to force you to accept Chrisitanity [or Judaism] as the one true religion, nor was he trying to convert you to his way of religious thinking. Oh yes, im sure you know, but the Constitution states that "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;" No where did Moore make or alter ANY laws. Way to blow things out of proportion.

No, Newsom's actions are not forcing anyone to practice homosexuality or condone it, but this is forced acceptance of it. And, if Newsom's actions had no ramifications for anyone other than homosexuals, how do you explain the controversy this issue is creating? And you're saying his actions are not going to force insurance, health care, and legal institutions to change some policy of theirs?
 

Leon

Platinum Member
Nov 14, 1999
2,215
4
81
No reasonable person believes the letter of the law has primacy over our Constitution.

So, if (theoretically) the Bush ammendment passes, I assume you will change your view on gay marriages, given that you hold the Constitution in such high regard.

Leon
 

SViscusi

Golden Member
Apr 12, 2000
1,200
8
81
Originally posted by: Genesys
Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc
Moore's exercise in religion forced everyone to view HIS vision of American jurisprudence . . . that somehow HIS God's law was THE law. Moore's distortion (and disregard) for the law has direct repercussions for all people that come before the court . . . not only through his direct actions with regards to the commandments but by nature of his position as an authority with the judiciary.

In San Francisco, no one is forced to practice homosexuality or condone homosexuality. Newsom is certainly disregarding the law but his disregard for the law has absolutely no ramifications for anyone other than homosexuals. In the process, Newsom is upholding arguably the most important principles in our system . . . equality and justice.

No reasonable person believes the letter of the law has primacy over our Constitution. It doesn't matter if Moore is elected, selected, or dejected . . . he doesn't make the law he is responsible for executing the law. Accordingly, it makes sense to send him packing when he wants to do it on his religious whims instead of Constitutional guidance. Newsom should be held accountable for his blatant disregard for the laws of California. By the same token, he deserves accolades for fighting for a minority being faced with the tyranny of the majority.

Umm...most of the laws in all legal systems in most countries are based off religious principles. Not only that, but the decalogue is also accepted by Judaism, and are generally accepted by most people on earth to be good priniples to live by. No where did Moore say [or IMO suggest] that his God's law was the law of the land, but obviously some people misinterpreted his actions as such. Basically he was presenting a monument to the source where our laws are based. Plain and simple. He was not trying to force you to accept Chrisitanity [or Judaism] as the one true religion, nor was he trying to convert you to his way of religious thinking. Oh yes, im sure you know, but the Constitution states that "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;" No where did Moore make or alter ANY laws. Way to blow things out of proportion.

No, Newsom's actions are not forcing anyone to practice homosexuality or condone it, but this is forced acceptance of it. And, if Newsom's actions had no ramifications for anyone other than homosexuals, how do you explain the controversy this issue is creating? And you're saying his actions are not going to force insurance, health care, and legal institutions to change some policy of theirs?

Our laws are based on many things, the are just one very minor part of them (and he didn't even get the proper ten commandments). Moore knew what he was doing was wrong that's why he snuck it in, in the middle of the night.
 

Genesys

Golden Member
Nov 10, 2003
1,536
0
0
Originally posted by: SViscusi

Our laws are based on many things, the are just one very minor part of them (and he didn't even get the proper ten commandments). Moore knew what he was doing was wrong that's why he snuck it in, in the middle of the night.

what kind of institution installs a huge monument in the middle of the day in a public area!? Why Moore did what he did in the middle of the night can be argued from a great many POVs. My point is that what Moore did wasnt illegal, its just that his actions were looked down upon because a bunch of elitists wrongly thought they were having religion pushed on them.
 

Mill

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
28,558
3
81
Originally posted by: SViscusi
Originally posted by: Mill
Well Kerry and Edwards said that gay marriage should be up to the states, so why shouldn't the ten commandments be up to the states? Most Alabamians wanted the commandments to remain. Personally I didn't care either way.

It ceases to be a states rights issue when it violates the Constitution. That's why slavery or abortion isn't a states rights issue. It has yet to be found how a mayor marrying granting gay couples marriage certificates does the same, hence the push for a constitutional amendment defining marrige.

Umm... slavery wasn't against the Constitution until it was amended after the Civil war... so yeah...
 

ElFenix

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Mar 20, 2000
102,392
8,549
126
Originally posted by: SViscusi
Originally posted by: Mill
Well Kerry and Edwards said that gay marriage should be up to the states, so why shouldn't the ten commandments be up to the states? Most Alabamians wanted the commandments to remain. Personally I didn't care either way.

It ceases to be a states rights issue when it violates the Constitution. That's why slavery or abortion isn't a states rights issue. It has yet to be found how a mayor marrying granting gay couples marriage certificates does the same, hence the push for a constitutional amendment defining marrige.

please point out the clause granting women the right to an abortion
 

BaliBabyDoc

Lifer
Jan 20, 2001
10,737
0
0
No, Newsom's actions are not forcing anyone to practice homosexuality or condone it, but this is forced acceptance of it. And, if Newsom's actions had no ramifications for anyone other than homosexuals, how do you explain the controversy this issue is creating? And you're saying his actions are not going to force insurance, health care, and legal institutions to change some policy of theirs?
The controversy derives from a duplicitous media and religious zealots intent upon EVERY American having to live by the edicts of an absent deity. No one is forced to accept homosexuality. Bigots nationwide are still free to deride the homosexual lifestyle and whatever other contrivances occupy the minds of the CBN watchers. But now when Falwell/Robertson are in virtual apoplexy over what consenting adults do in the confines of their bedroom . . . they will face the horrible intrusive thought that those people have committed to one another for a lifetime.

If insurance, health care, and legal institutions are discriminatory then I guess Newsom's actions may have consequences. If those organizations/institutions treat everyone the same . . . Newsom's actions make no difference whatsoever.

Personally, I think conspicuous consumption is immoral. And the primary guidance for my religious beliefs agrees. Yet I would not legislate away this immoral activity . . . I don't consider a 40% tax bracket for income over 500K as oppressive . . . steep but not oppressive.