Al-Shabab attack - Kenya: Muslims defend Christians

[Atreus21]

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world...tack-in-kenya/ar-BBnNxwJ?li=BBnb7Kz&ocid=iehp

Muslim passengers defended Christian passengers during an extremist attack on a bus in Kenya on Monday.

Members of the al-Shabab militant organization shot at a bus in Mandera, Kenya, forcing it to stop. Once the militants boarded the bus, they attempted to separate Muslim and Christian passengers, intending to kill the Christians on board, the BBC reported.

“We even gave some non-Muslims our religious attire to wear in the bus so that they would not be identified easily. We stuck together tightly," Abdi Mohamud Abdi, a Muslim passenger, told Reuters . "The militants threatened to shoot us but we still refused and protected our brothers and sisters. Finally they gave up and left but warned that they would be back.”

The local governor. Ali Roba, confirmed the account in an interview with Daily Nation , a Kenyan publication. “They refused to separate from non-Muslims and told the attacks to kill all passengers or leave,” Roba said. There were 62 passengers on board, according to the paper.

Even though the passengers stuck together so well, two people were killed and three were injured. Abdirashid Adan was hit by a bullet as militants shot at the bus; he was treated at Mandera County Referral Hospital, the Nation reported. The other victims were not identified by authorities, referred to only as a driver and two passengers.

A spokesman for the militant group, Sheikh Abdiasis Abu Musab, told Reuters the militants had succeeded in killing “some of the Christian enemies” and boasted that others were injured. Despite his claims, authorities did not confirm whether the victims were Christian or Muslim. When asked about the Muslim passengers defending the Christian passengers, Musab did not reply.

That's how it's done.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

I just read this myself, nice story and good work Kenyans. Why do African Muslims seem to be less tolerant of ass clownery?

 

[TheVrolok]

Religion of peace. :thumbsup:

 

[pcgeek11]

That is once.

 

[rpanic]

Those are Obama Muslims.

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

That is once.

actually no, but keep the message of stupid flowing

http://www.christianpost.com/news/v...nts-attend-mass-amid-threat-of-attack-102592/

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/08/muslims-form-human-chain-pakistan_n_4057381.html

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2014/1...urch-on-christmas-day-to-protect-worshippers/

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Those are Obama Muslims.

Haha good one

Seriously why do African Muslim's seem to be less extreme

 

[OutHouse]

Haha good one

Seriously why do African Muslim's seem to be less extreme

why would you think that?

http://www.cnn.com/2015/04/02/africa/kenya-university-attack/

 

[werepossum]

That is once.

True, but in large parts of Africa, Muslims are often the good guys. Here they are also the bad guys, but many times it's the Christians who are the bad guys. Those Lord's Resistance Army and Army of God people are as bad as ISIS.

Terrorism today is overwhelmingly an Islamic tenant, but Africa demonstrates that it appears in all (and no) faiths and causes, as well as demonstrating that very good people also come in all (and no) faiths. How many of us would risk death to protect Muslim fellow citizens we don't know?

 

[Jaskalas]

Today Kenyan Muslims earn a great deal of honor and respect.
The question is... how can we facilitate more of that common humanity?
How can we reward them, enrich them, and in turn help ourselves combat terrorism?

 

[realibrad]

Today Kenyan Muslims earn a great deal of honor and respect.
The question is... how can we facilitate more of that common humanity?
How can we reward them, enrich them, and in turn help ourselves combat terrorism?

Well, ask yourself this.

As people become more fundamentalist, do they become better for society?

In my opinion, the answer is no. The 3 big monotheistic religions, as people become more religious, they start to find justification for being assholes. Its not a 100% of the time that fundamentalist are assholes, but it sure seems like the vast majority are.

 

[Jaskalas]

I don't think we help people like that by telling them to drop their religion. They're not ready for that. What if it was their basis for morality, and for trying to save the innocent?
I'd think we'd like to find out, and if true then we'd need to support their authenticity in the face of others. That theirs is the true path.

 

[realibrad]

I don't think we help people like that by telling them to drop their religion. They're not ready for that. What if it was their basis for morality, and for trying to save the innocent?
I'd think we'd like to find out, and if true then we'd need to support their authenticity in the face of others. That theirs is the true path.

I agree, you don't get very far by telling people to drop their religion in one step. What would work far better is giving logical arguments about how we should act and if religion conflicts with that then say the religion is wrong. If you religion says to do something like own slaves, then you should say that is wrong and that people should not follow that part.

Morality comes from human nature promoting good behavior. A society that has no problem with murder will not grow and or die out vs another that is not okay with murder. We should have a logical explanation for why something is right or wrong. Religion simply says that some things are good or bad because it simply is that way. When religion has immoral things put into it, we need to call it out.

 

[Blue_Max]

I'd rather see more of this, which seems rare.

Instead, we get this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOn9kIljJok more and more and more...

 

[Atreus21]

Morality comes from human nature promoting good behavior. A society that has no problem with murder will not grow and or die out vs another that is not okay with murder. We should have a logical explanation for why something is right or wrong. Religion simply says that some things are good or bad because it simply is that way. When religion has immoral things put into it, we need to call it out.

Morality cannot be explained on rational grounds alone.

A perfectly rational argument can be made towards cheating on a test, or cheating on one's spouse, or theft, or any number of things we consider to be "wrong." Being logical and rational is no guarantee that you'll end up doing what is right.

 

[Moonbeam]

Morality cannot be explained on rational grounds alone.

A perfectly rational argument can be made towards cheating on a test, or cheating on one's spouse, or theft, or any number of things we consider to be "wrong." Being logical and rational is no guarantee that you'll end up doing what is right.

realibrad gets his sense of morality from God, but he doesn't know it because he won't allow himself to feel.

You are spot on about the dangers of rationality. Rational is what reason decides it is.

 

[realibrad]

Morality cannot be explained on rational grounds alone.

A perfectly rational argument can be made towards cheating on a test, or cheating on one's spouse, or theft, or any number of things we consider to be "wrong." Being logical and rational is no guarantee that you'll end up doing what is right.

Cheating helps the individual no doubt, but, it hurts society in the long run usually. All of the things you just listed can be explained.

Cheating on a test likely means you did not learn what you needed to. If you were to cheat to get a job, and then fail at the job due to lack of knowledge, then you would hurt the company and its investment in you. That represents a net deficit to the society, and any society that builds its morality to stop cheating would likely be more productive.

Cheating on a spouse is very complicated, but you can still logically see the bad from it. Increase STDs, single parents ect. A person who cheats will not likely stay in a long term relationship which would represent a less optimal household to raise children. Society then has the incentive to shame cheaters. There is also the issue of cheating making people not want to invest in a future with someone which is also bad.

Last is theft. A culture that has no problem with theft is a culture that does not care about future investment. If you thought that anything nice you bought would likely get stolen, you would either have to invest in protection of your goods or just not buy the nice thing. If you invest in protection, you are using resources that you would otherwise use to increase productivity. If you don't buy the nice thing, you are likely not increasing your productivity there either. No matter what you do, a theft society would be bad.

So, literally all of the things you just listed can be explained without religion. Do you have any more?

 

[realibrad]

realibrad gets his sense of morality from God, but he doesn't know it because he won't allow himself to feel.

You are spot on about the dangers of rationality. Rational is what reason decides it is.

Like most things, you can use something for good or bad. My hands can be used for typing or it can be used for fighting. Nobody would worry about the dangers of hands in the context you are talking about.

 

[buckshot24]

Religion of peace. :thumbsup:

They acted in contradiction to the Koran, thank God.

 

[realibrad]

They acted in contradiction to the Koran, thank God.

Where in the Koran does it say to give up Christians to be killed?

 

[Atreus21]

Cheating helps the individual no doubt, but, it hurts society in the long run usually. All of the things you just listed can be explained.

Cheating on a test likely means you did not learn what you needed to. If you were to cheat to get a job, and then fail at the job due to lack of knowledge, then you would hurt the company and its investment in you. That represents a net deficit to the society, and any society that builds its morality to stop cheating would likely be more productive.

Suppose after cheating on a test you wind up succeeding anyway. The company isn't harmed and in fact you wind up doing a stellar job despite your dishonesty. Can you still claim that it was absolutely wrong to cheat on the test when society has benefited from it?

Cheating on a spouse is very complicated, but you can still logically see the bad from it. Increase STDs, single parents ect. A person who cheats will not likely stay in a long term relationship which would represent a less optimal household to raise children. Society then has the incentive to shame cheaters. There is also the issue of cheating making people not want to invest in a future with someone which is also bad.

Suppose your spouse cheated on you first. Suppose the marriage is already hopeless, but you haven't yet pursued the divorce. Do you still consider yourself bound by your wedding vows?

 

[Matthiasa]

They acted in contradiction to the Koran, thank God.

Yeah no... The Quran is pretty clear in matters regarding the following of God. Being an Abrahamic religion, Islam shares the same god with Christianity and Judaism. Thus strictly speaking even at a fundamentalist level they shouldn't be targeting Christianity.

 

[Blue_Max]

Where in the Koran does it say to give up Christians to be killed?

5:51 O ye who believe! take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends: They are but friends to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them is of them. Verily Allah guideth not a people unjust.


To take the literal interpretation (like so many are doing today) one should not make friends or be friendly. There's thousands more verses on how poorly a muslim should treat a kafir (non-believer.) All a raging cleric needs to do to stir up a crowd is to quote these verses then tell his followers to go forth and do it, like in my video above and many thousands more just like it.

I'm happy to see that some (and I know some personally) that are good, kind people. This is in spite of what the religion teaches, not because of it.


I don't want to seem too adversarial here, I loved your above post regarding cheating, etc.

 

[Matthiasa]

Strictly speaking to not be allies is not the same thing as being enemies...

 

[Fanatical Meat]

They acted in contradiction to the Koran, thank God.

You do realize Muslim's follow the Old Testament too correct? Muslims call it The Old Book (I think).