Airsoft Guns

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AgentUnknown

Golden Member
Apr 10, 2003
1,527
5
81
You guys gotta remember that marui is the standard that all guns are based on. So they will take their design and try to improve on it. I have had bad experieces with ICS. If u planing to get a good AEG to start, get a marui or CA M4 (M15).
 

LordMaul

Lifer
Nov 16, 2000
15,168
1
0
Im not that experienced with airsoft, so I respect your opinion. That being said, I have had my CA MP5 for quite some time with 0 problems. I also bought mine used from CadetLee. Not only have I had no problems, but I liked it so much I convinced my roommate to get the exact same CA MP5. He also has had 0 problems with his. Maybe your CA was a manu defect.

See, that's the problem with the Classic Army guns, though. A friend of mine did the same thing you did (bought a secondhand CA from a friend) and the damn thing broke, too. Basically, it comes down to whether or not you are willing to take the expensive risk; you may get one that works, and if it works past a few mags, you'll probably be pretty happy with it and won't have problems. But it might not work, and you're out around $400. I thought the risk was small enough when I bought mine, and I ended up being one of those on the airsoft forums whining about how mine broke almost immediately.

Still, though, even if it DID work, the build quality is simply not comparable to the same gun from Marui. I still have the (albeit non-functioning) M4 from CA, and the exact same M4 from Tokyo Marui, and the Marui is WAY more sturdy and solid and is obviously machined and molded much better. For instance, you can hold the ends of both guns and shake, and while the CA will sound like a fricken box of wrenches and you will feel the parts moving around a bit, the Marui will barely creak. The molding and precise molding of the, say, bolt cover, cocking handle, magazine bay, etc. are also of obviously high quality when you compare the guns side-to-side. And considering that they're pretty much the same price, why take the gamble? :)
 

AgentUnknown

Golden Member
Apr 10, 2003
1,527
5
81
I have the newest CA M15A4, and it doesn't rattle at all. I think the build quality is only getting better.

CA= internals not that good, hicap, metal body, more FPS
TM= the original, great internals, solid

You can't go wrong with either one. If u like G36K's, then you gotta go with CA.
 

LordMaul

Lifer
Nov 16, 2000
15,168
1
0
Originally posted by: AgentUnknown
I have the newest CA M15A4, and it doesn't rattle at all. I think the build quality is only getting better.

CA= internals not that good, hicap, metal body, more FPS
TM= the original, great internals, solid

You can't go wrong with either one. If u like G36K's, then you gotta go with CA.

Well, they pretty much scared me away after I lost so much cash in my initial investment with them, so you're probably right in that they've been improving. With each release, they usually have a few revisions before they get it "right," but once they do, you *should* be OK with picking one up. Also, you can get hicaps for any of the brands, so that shouldn't really be a deciding factor. :) But the FPS factor and metal body (even if it is crap metal) can be nice if you don't want to ever mess with upgrades and really want these features.
 

HaxorNubcake

Golden Member
Jun 23, 2004
1,983
0
0
well from what i've been hearing from you guys both TM and CA would be good ways to go...

but is there anything specifically wrong with the airsoft elite mp5?

This is the 4th version (v4) and v3 and v3.5 have had great reviews.

Either way, I won't be buying the cheap UTG one
 

fuzzybabybunny

Moderator<br>Digital & Video Cameras
Moderator
Jan 2, 2006
10,455
35
91
Originally posted by: LordMaul
Originally posted by: drinkmorejava
I've really never understood why you guys pay so much for something that shoots little plastic BBs. Paintball all the way

OK, buddy. Go run around with your glorified NERF guns and shoot at each other in your flashy clothes while dodging around huge nylon balloons with wet, neon-pink goo all over your bodies. I'll be over here with my realistic weapons at a milsim event with players actually older than 14, all the while not paying tangible amounts of cash for every trigger pull and even leave not looking like a rainbow fairy had a huge technicolor orgasm on my BDUs. :roll:

BWAHAHAHAHA

Agreed on all points.

Paintball:

Gas is expensive (and not readily available at home).
Ammo is expensive.
Guns are not realistic.
Speedball is incredibly stupid.

Airsoft:

High initial monetary investment.
Ammo is cheap.
Gas is cheap (propane) and readily available.
Electricity is cheap (recharge batteries) and readily available.
Guns are as realistic as you can get.
Great for milsim.
Relies on the honor system.
 

LordMaul

Lifer
Nov 16, 2000
15,168
1
0
Originally posted by: HaxorNubcake
well from what i've been hearing from you guys both TM and CA would be good ways to go...

but is there anything specifically wrong with the airsoft elite mp5?

This is the 4th version (v4) and v3 and v3.5 have had great reviews.

Either way, I won't be buying the cheap UTG one

Well, I just did a little bit of Googling, and the guns look alright. I've never owned one, nor known any real airsoft enthusiasts who have ever owned one, but if the reviews are really accurate, it's possible that it's a good gun. Just remember... you may get an excellent gun. Then again, you may not, and you just spent good money on something that could've gone to a sure thing for the same price. Just depends on if you're willing to take the gamble and maybe get something even better, or if you would rather be cautious and go with the status-quo. ;)

If you get a Marui, then you'll most likely be happy. If you get the Elite, you may be very, very happy, but if not, don't make it a strike against airsoft in general... Just try again with a different brand until you find something you like - they're all quite different, from manufacturer-to-manufacturer and even sometimes gun-to-gun within the same company.
 

fuzzybabybunny

Moderator<br>Digital & Video Cameras
Moderator
Jan 2, 2006
10,455
35
91
Originally posted by: LordMaul
Originally posted by: HaxorNubcake
well from what i've been hearing from you guys both TM and CA would be good ways to go...

but is there anything specifically wrong with the airsoft elite mp5?

This is the 4th version (v4) and v3 and v3.5 have had great reviews.

Either way, I won't be buying the cheap UTG one

Well, I just did a little bit of Googling, and the guns look alright. I've never owned one, nor known any real airsoft enthusiasts who have ever owned one, but if the reviews are really accurate, it's possible that it's a good gun. Just remember... you may get an excellent gun. Then again, you may not, and you just spent good money on something that could've gone to a sure thing for the same price. Just depends on if you're willing to take the gamble and maybe get something even better, or if you would rather be cautious and go with the status-quo. ;)

If you get a Marui, then you'll most likely be happy. If you get the Elite, you may be very, very happy, but if not, don't make it a strike against airsoft in general... Just try again with a different brand until you find something you like - they're all quite different, from manufacturer-to-manufacturer and even sometimes gun-to-gun within the same company.

I've always thought the big three airsoft manufacturors were Marui, CA, and ICS (Airsoft Elite).

And then of course there's Systema...
 

LordMaul

Lifer
Nov 16, 2000
15,168
1
0
Originally posted by: fuzzybabybunny
Originally posted by: LordMaul
Originally posted by: HaxorNubcake
well from what i've been hearing from you guys both TM and CA would be good ways to go...

but is there anything specifically wrong with the airsoft elite mp5?

This is the 4th version (v4) and v3 and v3.5 have had great reviews.

Either way, I won't be buying the cheap UTG one

Well, I just did a little bit of Googling, and the guns look alright. I've never owned one, nor known any real airsoft enthusiasts who have ever owned one, but if the reviews are really accurate, it's possible that it's a good gun. Just remember... you may get an excellent gun. Then again, you may not, and you just spent good money on something that could've gone to a sure thing for the same price. Just depends on if you're willing to take the gamble and maybe get something even better, or if you would rather be cautious and go with the status-quo. ;)

If you get a Marui, then you'll most likely be happy. If you get the Elite, you may be very, very happy, but if not, don't make it a strike against airsoft in general... Just try again with a different brand until you find something you like - they're all quite different, from manufacturer-to-manufacturer and even sometimes gun-to-gun within the same company.

I've always thought the big three airsoft manufacturors were Marui, CA, and ICS (Airsoft Elite).

And then of course there's Systema...

Sure, go ahead, drop the big names and watch the n00bs run in horror when they see the prices. ;)

I've seen ICS around the scene quite a bit, but honestly, like I said, I've known pretty much no one who owns and/or swears by them like Marui owners. Maybe I'm a bit out of touch currently (haven't bought an AEG gun in well over a year, and haven't been watching the news on them) so I could be wrong.
 

JSFLY

Golden Member
Mar 24, 2006
1,068
0
0
Originally posted by: LordMaul
OK, I have to do this, as it's something I do to all airsoft beginners (and even some semi-experienced players) when they talk about buying AEGs and GBBs: DO NOT BUY THE KNOCKOFF BRANDS. I may sound like a fanboy, but Tokyo Marui is where it's at. The reason they're the most popular is because they're built the best and are the most reliable. I've owned many different brands, types, models, etc. of guns from all over Asia and have yet to find anything as solidly built and reliable as my Marui primaries. There is simply no contest.

I bought a Classic Army after hearing good things about them (The M4A1, too, not the early-version MP5 series) and the goddamn thing stopped working after about 3 mags. It was also incredibly less solid than my Marui, which, IIRC (even though it's PLASTIC) actually weighs more than the crap-metal stock bodies on the Classic Army and other "full metal" versions out there. Just because it's metal doesn't mean it's better....just means they threw a cheap, poorly machined body on some crappier internals and sold it as "better than plasticy Marui AEGs" to people who don't know better.

CA manages to couple some good-on-paper internal specs with their metal bodies, but you get what you pay for. Always. That's just the way it is with this hobby, and trying to get around that will only cost you more money in the end, or a lot of frustration. If you want an upgraded, metal-bodied gun, get a Marui, an aftermarket body (the aftermarket CA bodies are DIFFERENT from the stock ones they ship with their AEGs, for instance) and some internal upgrades. If you don't want to do it, buy from a reputable seller (Airsoft Extreme in the US, or RedWolf Airsoft if you have very specific wants... The shipping isn't as bad as you may think, and they're great to deal with) and do it properly, without cutting corners.

GBBs are a little more gray... Some Taiwanese/"knockoff" guns are great (ie, the KWC Desert Eagle) and are as good as, or better than a Marui. AEGs are very different, though, and I cannot stress enough how important it is for you to NOT get an Academy, or Elite, or whatever the other crap they sell at places like ShortyUSA, Airsoft Atlanta, etc. by trying to get more for your money than you would with a Marui or maaaaaaaaaybe a highly-recommended Classic Army that's been on the market for a while and has had time for revisions and so on.

I own a good handful of AEGs, and a ridiculous amount of GBBs and other handguns (and shotguns) and have been into the sport since around 1998. Trust me on this, you do NOT want to cut corners unless you want the damn thing to hang on your wall and don't plan on shooting anything. ;)

I totally agree man. Tokyo Marui all the way. The second you put ur hands on an authentic japanese airsoft gun, you'll know ur getting quality. The japanese make the absolute best airsofts, after all, they are crazy about em over in japan.
 

erwin1978

Golden Member
Jun 22, 2001
1,637
3
81
Can you pretty please link to some videos how these things work? They look mighty interesting.
 

erwin1978

Golden Member
Jun 22, 2001
1,637
3
81
So these are toys compared to real bb guns? They only use plastic pellets? I used to have a rifle bb gun that I had to pump several times, and that thing can kill animals. I'm guessing this can't. It looks nice though. I saw a video of a guy disassembling one and the air tank is small, like a roll of quarters.
 

Injury

Lifer
Jul 19, 2004
13,066
2
0
Originally posted by: erwin1978
So these are toys compared to real bb guns? They only use plastic pellets? I used to have a rifle bb gun that I had to pump several times, and that thing can kill animals. I'm guessing this can't. It looks nice though. I saw a video of a guy disassembling one and the air tank is small, like a roll of quarters.

Pretty much. Cheap sporting goods store ones don't have much power, but most of them you could get shot with wearing nothing more than a thick shirt and only feel it hit, no sting really. Even without a shirt or something you might have a little red mark after 10-15 minutes at most. I don't doubt that some could break skin, but it would probably be a rare occurance. Eye protection is neccessary.

There are some more powerful ones that might sting a bit, but the game isn't about trying to get hurt, it's about simulation.

Most of them work on batteries that will take care of re-cocking the gun, some of them work on CO2 like a paintball gun (usually just special models). These ones usually start around $60-70 for a pistol and can go pretty high for sub mach./rifles. Cheap model require a re-cock after each shot, which get annoying after the first shot or two. Those models can be had for $25 (for a pistol) in sporting goods stores. Most sporting goods stores will sell a fake looking mp5 or M16 for about $50.

The plastic pellets are 6mm and cost about 10-20 for a couple thousand, so it's cheap once you buy the gun.

If you are looking for a "toy" (note the quotes) get a sporting goods store model. If you want to get into it, you'll have to buy on the internet, or maybe a paintball store.
 

Nerva

Platinum Member
Jul 26, 2005
2,796
0
0
what's the difference between a blowback gas gun and non blow gas back one? does blow back mean it's semi auto?
 

fuzzybabybunny

Moderator<br>Digital & Video Cameras
Moderator
Jan 2, 2006
10,455
35
91
Originally posted by: 3cho
what's the difference between a blowback gas gun and non blow gas back one? does blow back mean it's semi auto?

Blow back means there there's an actual recoil. Some of the gas from the shot is used to simulate a real gun's recoil, hence the term blowback.

NBB (non-blowback) guns don't have this simulated recoil, and as a general rule they can shoot more shots on a refill of gas than a BB because all of the gas is used in the shot instead of some of it used to make the recoil.

Blowback guns are used for realism, although the kick really isn't *that* great. It primarily just makes the slide kick back and forth.

On a side note though, gas guns can be suppressed :p
 

HaxorNubcake

Golden Member
Jun 23, 2004
1,983
0
0
I've sorta changed my mind now...
this tokyo marui mp5a4 (3rd from top) is actually pretty neat and resonably priced I'd plan on getting the:
LEVEL 2 UPGRADE 375FPS - INTERNAL BATT OPTION 8.4V 3000MA which includes:
1. Install Prometheus spring
2. Systema Steel bushings
3. Custom gearbox work to ensure smooth operation
and the battery.

Total comes out to 268 (188 gun + 80 upgrade), but shipping is expensive (like 60) so its more like 328.
The Airsoft elite (link in op) is already 285 (including shipping), and with a battery more like around $305.

edit: er...bad link. 1 sec
from link, in drop down bar go to tokyo marui mp5 series
 

AgentUnknown

Golden Member
Apr 10, 2003
1,527
5
81
Why are u upgrading your gun? You are a noob, so keep it stock first. Learn how to use it, then upgrade. You want to know how it feels in stock form otherwise they can say they upgraded it when it truly wasn't.
 

jlee

Lifer
Sep 12, 2001
48,511
219
106
Originally posted by: HaxorNubcake
I've sorta changed my mind now...
this tokyo marui mp5a4 (3rd from top) is actually pretty neat and resonably priced I'd plan on getting the:
LEVEL 2 UPGRADE 375FPS - INTERNAL BATT OPTION 8.4V 3000MA which includes:
1. Install Prometheus spring
2. Systema Steel bushings
3. Custom gearbox work to ensure smooth operation
and the battery.

Total comes out to 268 (188 gun + 80 upgrade), but shipping is expensive (like 60) so its more like 328.
The Airsoft elite (link in op) is already 285 (including shipping), and with a battery more like around $305.

edit: er...bad link. 1 sec
from link, in drop down bar go to tokyo marui mp5 series

375fps is a little hot for a first gun, IMHO. You may be unable to play on some CQB fields as well. I'd recommend going stock for your first gun.

I was never a fan of TM MP5s..felt light and plasticy to me. The selector switches are wobbly too. Maybe they've improved since then, though..that was a few years ago.
 

HaxorNubcake

Golden Member
Jun 23, 2004
1,983
0
0
Originally posted by: AgentUnknown
Why are u upgrading your gun? You are a noob, so keep it stock first. Learn how to use it, then upgrade. You want to know how it feels in stock form otherwise they can say they upgraded it when it truly wasn't.

well the company does it and the company seems pretty reputable (and LordMaul recommended it). If i just upgrade it before I get it, I won't have to worry about it later.
 

jlee

Lifer
Sep 12, 2001
48,511
219
106
Originally posted by: HaxorNubcake
Originally posted by: AgentUnknown
Why are u upgrading your gun? You are a noob, so keep it stock first. Learn how to use it, then upgrade. You want to know how it feels in stock form otherwise they can say they upgraded it when it truly wasn't.

well the company does it and the company seems pretty reputable (and LordMaul recommended it). If i just upgrade it before I get it, I won't have to worry about it later.

True -- but keep in mind you may be unable to play in CQB games. You may be better off with a 330-350fps upgrade, if you're dead-set on purchasing an upgraded gun. When you get up to 380-400fps, you may want to consider an aftermarket motor and/or gearset eventually.
 

HaxorNubcake

Golden Member
Jun 23, 2004
1,983
0
0
Originally posted by: CadetLee
Originally posted by: HaxorNubcake
Originally posted by: AgentUnknown
Why are u upgrading your gun? You are a noob, so keep it stock first. Learn how to use it, then upgrade. You want to know how it feels in stock form otherwise they can say they upgraded it when it truly wasn't.

well the company does it and the company seems pretty reputable (and LordMaul recommended it). If i just upgrade it before I get it, I won't have to worry about it later.

True -- but keep in mind you may be unable to play in CQB games. You may be better off with a 330-350fps upgrade, if you're dead-set on purchasing an upgraded gun. When you get up to 380-400fps, you may want to consider an aftermarket motor and/or gearset eventually.

hmm that makes sense. 350fps would only be a $75 upgrade, but I also wouldn't get "Systema Steel Bushings". Are those necessary (I originally decided on the 375 fps because it was only $5 more and came with those)? Also, is it worth it to get full stock in order to easily put in the large 8.4v 3000mah battery, or will a collapsible stock with a 8.4v 600mah hidden somewhere suffice?
 

jlee

Lifer
Sep 12, 2001
48,511
219
106
Originally posted by: HaxorNubcake
Originally posted by: CadetLee
Originally posted by: HaxorNubcake
Originally posted by: AgentUnknown
Why are u upgrading your gun? You are a noob, so keep it stock first. Learn how to use it, then upgrade. You want to know how it feels in stock form otherwise they can say they upgraded it when it truly wasn't.

well the company does it and the company seems pretty reputable (and LordMaul recommended it). If i just upgrade it before I get it, I won't have to worry about it later.

True -- but keep in mind you may be unable to play in CQB games. You may be better off with a 330-350fps upgrade, if you're dead-set on purchasing an upgraded gun. When you get up to 380-400fps, you may want to consider an aftermarket motor and/or gearset eventually.

hmm that makes sense. 350fps would only be a $75 upgrade, but I also wouldn't get "Systema Steel Bushings". Are those necessary (I originally decided on the 375 fps because it was only $5 more and came with those)? Also, is it worth it to get full stock in order to easily put in the large 8.4v 3000mah battery, or will a collapsible stock with a 8.4v 600mah hidden somewhere suffice?

You'll probably get at least 800 shots from a 600mah on a stock gun. I've pulled ~900 out of my P90. Figure 1 - 1.5 shots per mah.

80 bucks for an upgrade? Sounds a little steep -- bushings shouldn't be much more than $15-20, same for a spring...it shouldn't be a $40 job. Steel bushings are definitely a good idea, though..and Systema makes good stuff (my AUG's guts are mostly/all Systema :p)..
 

HaxorNubcake

Golden Member
Jun 23, 2004
1,983
0
0
Originally posted by: CadetLee
Originally posted by: HaxorNubcake
Originally posted by: CadetLee
Originally posted by: HaxorNubcake
Originally posted by: AgentUnknown
Why are u upgrading your gun? You are a noob, so keep it stock first. Learn how to use it, then upgrade. You want to know how it feels in stock form otherwise they can say they upgraded it when it truly wasn't.

well the company does it and the company seems pretty reputable (and LordMaul recommended it). If i just upgrade it before I get it, I won't have to worry about it later.

True -- but keep in mind you may be unable to play in CQB games. You may be better off with a 330-350fps upgrade, if you're dead-set on purchasing an upgraded gun. When you get up to 380-400fps, you may want to consider an aftermarket motor and/or gearset eventually.

hmm that makes sense. 350fps would only be a $75 upgrade, but I also wouldn't get "Systema Steel Bushings". Are those necessary (I originally decided on the 375 fps because it was only $5 more and came with those)? Also, is it worth it to get full stock in order to easily put in the large 8.4v 3000mah battery, or will a collapsible stock with a 8.4v 600mah hidden somewhere suffice?

You'll probably get at least 800 shots from a 600mah on a stock gun. I've pulled ~900 out of my P90. Figure 1 - 1.5 shots per mah.

80 bucks for an upgrade? Sounds a little steep -- bushings shouldn't be much more than $15-20, same for a spring...it shouldn't be a $40 job. Steel bushings are definitely a good idea, though..and Systema makes good stuff (my AUG's guts are mostly/all Systema :p)..

"Custom gearbox work to ensure smooth operation" is also part of that upgrade package. Dunno what that is worth though lol
 

jlee

Lifer
Sep 12, 2001
48,511
219
106
Originally posted by: HaxorNubcake
Originally posted by: CadetLee
Originally posted by: HaxorNubcake
Originally posted by: CadetLee
Originally posted by: HaxorNubcake
Originally posted by: AgentUnknown
Why are u upgrading your gun? You are a noob, so keep it stock first. Learn how to use it, then upgrade. You want to know how it feels in stock form otherwise they can say they upgraded it when it truly wasn't.

well the company does it and the company seems pretty reputable (and LordMaul recommended it). If i just upgrade it before I get it, I won't have to worry about it later.

True -- but keep in mind you may be unable to play in CQB games. You may be better off with a 330-350fps upgrade, if you're dead-set on purchasing an upgraded gun. When you get up to 380-400fps, you may want to consider an aftermarket motor and/or gearset eventually.

hmm that makes sense. 350fps would only be a $75 upgrade, but I also wouldn't get "Systema Steel Bushings". Are those necessary (I originally decided on the 375 fps because it was only $5 more and came with those)? Also, is it worth it to get full stock in order to easily put in the large 8.4v 3000mah battery, or will a collapsible stock with a 8.4v 600mah hidden somewhere suffice?

You'll probably get at least 800 shots from a 600mah on a stock gun. I've pulled ~900 out of my P90. Figure 1 - 1.5 shots per mah.

80 bucks for an upgrade? Sounds a little steep -- bushings shouldn't be much more than $15-20, same for a spring...it shouldn't be a $40 job. Steel bushings are definitely a good idea, though..and Systema makes good stuff (my AUG's guts are mostly/all Systema :p)..

"Custom gearbox work to ensure smooth operation" is also part of that upgrade package. Dunno what that is worth though lol

Which retailer is this from -- Redwolf..Uncompany..Dentrinity..?