Airline 'fat tax': Should heavy passengers pay more?

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Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
14,452
9,837
136
I didn't read the thread, but I was an engineer at a major US airline until a few months ago. Weight savings runs around $45 per pound per year, depending on fleet, but they are all around that. Our average was about 1100 flights per year, for all fleets combined.

Cost of extra weight is massively overblown. I used to have vendors try to pull out these $1000/pound-yr numbers and we would just laugh at them and their $100,000, 10 pound weight saving modifications.

BTW: Passenger weight on a 737-800 is only about 17% of the max takeoff weight. So it isn't like the plane would be free to operate if everyone was 90 pounds instead of 250.
 
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RocksteadyDotNet

Diamond Member
Jul 29, 2008
3,152
1
0
Definitely.

If you don't like it then lose some weight you disgusting fat pigs.

Have some fucking self respect.
 

Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
14,452
9,837
136
if charging heavier people more means i pay less, then i'm all for it.

if you're skinny, whats your opinion?

First, there is a good chance you weigh more than what they assume the average passenger weighs.

Second, airlines will never give you a discount because they charged someone else more. But I am glad the ancillary revenue marketing has worked on so many people, it paid my salary for many years.

We should probably consider volume as well. We could no doubt save on cabin size - and thus metal needed for it, and therefore weight - by making cabins accommodate people 5'6 and just telling taller people to duck. Or they'd have to buy a ticket on a larger, and thus more expensive plane.

This would violate commercial aircraft certification laws for EGRESS. Just because you are short doesn't mean everyone teller than you should pay more.
 

boomerang

Lifer
Jun 19, 2000
18,890
642
126
I didn't read the thread, but I was an engineer at a major US airline until a few months ago. Weight savings runs around $45 per pound per year, depending on fleet, but they are all around that. Our average was about 1100 flights per year, for all fleets combined.

Cost of extra weight is massively overblown. I used to have vendors try to pull out these $1000/pound-yr numbers and we would just laugh at them and their $100,000, 10 pound weight saving modifications.

BTW: Passenger weight on a 737-800 is only about 17% of the max takeoff weight. So it isn't like the plane would be free to operate if everyone was 90 pounds instead of 250.
Great post.

So now we can determine who is dumber. The "economics scholar" from Norway that shared his progtard ideas that are not practical and not needed or, his dumbass minion followers in this thread that seized upon the article to bash the last group in the states that have no lobby - the overweight.

I vote for the followers. The dumbass from Norway just shared his ignorant thoughts. Here, lemmings jumped on his bandwagon when they saw an opportunity to make them feel better about themselves at the expense of someone else. Let me guess, you guys vote too?
 

TechBoyJK

Lifer
Oct 17, 2002
16,701
60
91
Ahh, I see. So basically you're a bigot in addition to not being very bright. You could have put some thought into a reply that many here may have bought but instead you rolled right over and showed your true colors.

What are your feelings towards gays and blacks? Are you PC with those groups?

How does any of that make me a bigot or anything that you claim?

I'm a health conscious individual. I see being fat and lazy for what it is.. being a shitty person. Just like stealing is being a shitty person. The person at heart might not be a 'shitty person' but it sure is shitty behavior, at the least.

How does that in anyway determine how I feel about gays or blacks? These are completely different things. Do you expect my mind to explode when I see a fat, black, gay dude?

SO basically, I'm 'not bright' because I think being fat is a bad thing? Yea... Someone's not bright, and it's not me.

And what do you mean about "am I PC" with those groups too?

I could give a flying fuck about someone's problems from being fat UNLESS they have a medical condition for it. That's understandable. But just because someone can't stop stuffing food in their face and eating at mcdonald's 3 times a day doesn't mean I have to accommodate them. I won't. And airlines shouldn't either. You need 2 seats? You buy two.

You must be fat.
 
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TechBoyJK

Lifer
Oct 17, 2002
16,701
60
91
Great post.

So now we can determine who is dumber. The "economics scholar" from Norway that shared his progtard ideas that are not practical and not needed or, his dumbass minion followers in this thread that seized upon the article to bash the last group in the states that have no lobby - the overweight.

I vote for the followers. The dumbass from Norway just shared his ignorant thoughts. Here, lemmings jumped on his bandwagon when they saw an opportunity to make them feel better about themselves at the expense of someone else. Let me guess, you guys vote too?

Are you overweight? Do you have a fat wife or something? You defend being overweight. You shouldn't. This has nothing to do with us health concious and concerned people making ourselves feel better. It's about people being uncontrolled, slothy face stuffing pigs and then placing their 'burdern' on society. You seem to think it's about us just wanting to feel better at others expense with its the opposite. It's about fatties not caring about their health at the expense of others (us). Squeezing into seats they don't fit in on planes, taking up two seats on the subway, etc. Wanting doors widened. Crazy shit.
 
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Exterous

Super Moderator
Jun 20, 2006
20,348
3,426
126
They should weigh everything just to keep it completely fair. It shouldn't be difficult to weigh luggage and add that to the price since that's exactly what shipping companies already do. Weighing people should be easy as well. Stand on a scale, scan your ticket, the system adds your weight to your ticket and that weight would show up on the final bill.

Loading/unloading procedures would be shorter.

weigh them all at the security check point?

I am guessing you guys don't fly much if you think this would, in any way, be an easy to implement or could be done in an efficient manner.

A lot of flyers don't ever go to the counter to check in so if you do it there you are forcing a large number of people into manual check-ins which is the direct opposite of the industry trend.

As for doing it at security - do any of you think the TSA could do this efficiently? Really? Even if it only takes a couple extra seconds major airports handle hundreds of thousands of people a day. This will add time - a lot of it. Not to mention you'd have to get the TSA to decide on a couple of scales which would take years and have to get them to be responsible for reporting the weight to the correct airline. Yeah - I am sure there would be no problems or high costs with that :rolleyes:

What about flights originating overseas where there is no TSA? Contract it out locally? If you don't who do you get to calibrate and test the scales? You'd likely not be able to use airline employees for conflict of interest reasons

What about connecting flights? The US is not the only country that has domestic carriers and all the legacy carriers belong to international alliances that allow intra-alliance connections. So - what do you do for a connection between a non-weight carrier and a weight carrier? Are we also adding scales to gateways? Re-arrange some airports to have a massive weighing area behind security?

Who is paying for all of this? The airlines? I don't think so - it would be passed on in tickets costs.

Average ticket price would go down.

I highly doubt that the airlines would reduce prices because of this. They'd have to show an enormous profit from this for them to pass savings onto the customer

I know right? How could a shipping company like UPS start changing by weight? They would need to start weighing boxes or something. This would be impossibly difficult because a standard bathroom scale costs like $20,000 and they're as big as a house. Charging by weight will only be possible when someone invents a scale that is cheap enough for the average person to buy and small enough to fit in something like a bathroom.

They would not be able to use anything close to a bathroom scale. Only certain scales could be used and the NIST would likely be involved as they would need to assure national uniformity to prevent discrepancies. There would need to be inspections, testing and calibration to meet certain goals. Of course domestic carriers also fly into the US from international cities so there would need to be tested scales there as well. Do you fly out inspectors? Do you contract locally? If you contract locally do you care about the graft and corruption that will occur?

Not saying it is hideously expensive but if you think a simple bathroom scale would work you are deluded.
 

Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
14,452
9,837
136
I have no problem charging someone for 2 seat if they can not physically fit in one seat. I have no problem not allowing extra large people to seat near the over wing exits, since some people can not physically fit through the door. Tangent: I know of at least one accident where a large women blocked one of the over wing exits during EGRESS, luckily all other exits were still available. I also feel really bad for her, she didn't believe she would fit and she didn't want to block other people by forcing her way up the aisle, so she stayed put waiting to die. By the time the plane was empty she had gone into shock and required rescue.

But charging for weight is really dumb, the cost of implementing would exceed any real world benefits. The airlines will not pass the savings back to the customers. The incremental fuel cost of "fat" people is very slim and in most cases would not even be noticeable, especially compared to other environmental and mechanical factors.

I also have a hunch that this fat fee would affect most of the "fit" people on here. Airlines typically assume a pretty low weight for an average passenger, around 180 pounds, IIRC. So if you weigh more than 180 for any reason, time to pay up.

EDIT:
Found the right source: This is the weight for a passenger including all carry-on items:
Summer: Adult Male - 200#, Adult Female - 179#, Child (>=2 and <13) - 82#
Winter: Add 5 pounds to all

"The standard average passenger weights in Table 3-1 include 5 pounds for summer clothing, 10 pounds for winter clothing, and a 16-pound allowance for personal items and carry-on bags. Where no gender is given, the standard average passenger weights are based on the assumption that 50 percent of passengers are male and 50 percent of passengers are female."
 
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CombatChuk

Platinum Member
Jul 19, 2000
2,008
3
81
So my other question would be, what if the passengers are significantly smaller? Last month I took my family on a trip to Argentina and I had to pay full price for my kids to have their own seats.

My 2 year old daughter is 25lbs and my 4 year old son is 45 lbs. My Daughter, even with her 12 pound car seat is significantly less in weight and in volume than a average passenger and so is my Son (Who didn't use a car seat). Would we get a significant discount on their tickets?

My hunch is no...
 

JEDI

Lifer
Sep 25, 2001
30,160
3,300
126
So my other question would be, what if the passengers are significantly smaller? Last month I took my family on a trip to Argentina and I had to pay full price for my kids to have their own seats.

My 2 year old daughter is 25lbs and my 4 year old son is 45 lbs. My Daughter, even with her 12 pound car seat is significantly less in weight and in volume than a average passenger and so is my Son (Who didn't use a car seat). Would we get a significant discount on their tickets?

My hunch is no...

huh? thought u could sit your 2yr old on your lap??
 

Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
14,452
9,837
136
huh? thought u could sit your 2yr old on your lap??

The law in the US is less than 2, other countries have different laws, and some people don't like having a 2 year-old on their lap for 8 hours straight.
 

boomerang

Lifer
Jun 19, 2000
18,890
642
126
Are you overweight? Do you have a fat wife or something? You defend being overweight. You shouldn't. This has nothing to do with us health concious and concerned people making ourselves feel better. It's about people being uncontrolled, slothy face stuffing pigs and then placing their 'burdern' on society. You seem to think it's about us just wanting to feel better at others expense with its the opposite. It's about fatties not caring about their health at the expense of others (us). Squeezing into seats they don't fit in on planes, taking up two seats on the subway, etc. Wanting doors widened. Crazy shit.
The only thing worse than a bigot like yourself is a bigot like yourself who is too ignorant to know when to shut up.

I know you're not the brightest but I will briefly try to explain my position. My argument is with bigoted progs like yourself who think your lot in life is to tell others how to live. Never once in this thread have I defended people who are overweight. My issue is solely with you. Keep thinking you're better than other people. The rest of us are laughing at you.

There should be a minimum age requirement to post here because teenagers like yourself are just too caught up in themselves to make anything they say worthwile.
 

JockoJohnson

Golden Member
May 20, 2009
1,417
60
91
Bullshit. Before I worry about the cost difference that fattie makes, I would worry more about the customer satisfaction of the 2 people sufferring with fattie in the middle.

Screw that! What about the skinny guy trapped by two fatties on either side? And stuck in the back row so you can't recline. Yes, it sounds cliche but it happened to me. I was supposed to have the window seat but my first flight was late so I had to run to the connecting flight. The two fatties figured it would be better if they didn't sit next to each other....so my skinny ass gets smushed in between. I didn't want to argue, I just wanted to sleep until the ride was over.

And last I checked, air travel is NOT a right. So they should charge based off of weight and space taken up. Boo-fucking-hoo. Why does everybody have to be accommodated? You don't like the charges, don't fly.
 

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
33,981
3,318
126
I think airlines should do away with all fares and they should charge according to what you weigh...that way everybody would be treated equally!!!
 

lotus503

Diamond Member
Feb 12, 2005
6,502
1
76
Are you overweight? Do you have a fat wife or something? You defend being overweight. You shouldn't. This has nothing to do with us health concious and concerned people making ourselves feel better. It's about people being uncontrolled, slothy face stuffing pigs and then placing their 'burdern' on society. You seem to think it's about us just wanting to feel better at others expense with its the opposite. It's about fatties not caring about their health at the expense of others (us). Squeezing into seats they don't fit in on planes, taking up two seats on the subway, etc. Wanting doors widened. Crazy shit.


Here is the thing every single human being has got something they work on or struggle with.

I am 5'11" 175lbs and do at least 6 hours Cardio a week often over 10 when the weather is nice. My entire family is slim and healthy by choice.

I like to smoke weed - some may judge that as some huge character flaw.
I like to bait people on forums and slowly lead them into painting themselves into a stupid positions - finding that fun that could be classified as a flaw.

However some folks have issues that are not apparent from appearances, lets take you for instance - your an insensitive self righteous prick who by all accounts thinks he is perfect without flaw, enough to endlessly bash a group of people with little consideration.

You may be psychically fit but based on your posts here your an emotional wreck with some serious character flaws.

Fat people can eat less, you may require years of expensive therapy to overcome your flaws.
 

Ventanni

Golden Member
Jul 25, 2011
1,432
142
106
I would never trust an airline company to calculate a "fair" price/tax for those who weigh more than others. That, and I just don't agree with the practice on a moral level.
 

TechBoyJK

Lifer
Oct 17, 2002
16,701
60
91
Here is the thing every single human being has got something they work on or struggle with.

I am 5'11" 175lbs and do at least 6 hours Cardio a week often over 10 when the weather is nice. My entire family is slim and healthy by choice.

I like to smoke weed - some may judge that as some huge character flaw.
I like to bait people on forums and slowly lead them into painting themselves into a stupid positions - finding that fun that could be classified as a flaw.

However some folks have issues that are not apparent from appearances, lets take you for instance - your an insensitive self righteous prick who by all accounts thinks he is perfect without flaw, enough to endlessly bash a group of people with little consideration.

You may be psychically fit but based on your posts here your an emotional wreck with some serious character flaws.

Fat people can eat less, you may require years of expensive therapy to overcome your flaws.

Honestly, this morning when I was getting off the subway, which was full, before anybody could even get off the train, a GIANT lady (probably 5'7 450) barges onto the train and literally blocked the door. It's like she didn't want to wait at all. Just knows she's huge and threw herself on the train. There was about 9 people wanting to get off the train at that particular door, and people had to squeeze by her. There was not enough time for everyone to get off as even the other exit doors had groups of people walking off. I fortunately bolted down to another door and slipped out before the doors closed, but I watched as the doors closed on some people. They were pissed! And I was pretty disgusted 'with fat people' today. The person totally fit the 'fuck everyone im fat i dont care' personality I was ranting about. The same person that squeezes into a seat too small and bulges over into your seat, only to look at you like "deal with it".

I have plenty of consideration for all walks of life. I'm hardly the smartest person around, much less this message board. I don't think I know better than all. I base all my opinions on life experience. Experience that is unique to me. I'm completely open to other perspectives.

I 100% understand that everyone has their struggles.

I understand that some people have a medical condition they can't beat and it makes them obese. I stated that already. This could be depression, etc.

I stand by my opinion that someone that continually overeats, doesn't work out, is lazy, and gets fat (not overweight, but taking up two seats fat) is 100% displaying bad behavior. its 2013, people should know better. This is a specific group of people. They don't seem to care about themselves, so I assume they don't care about others.

To me it's on par with alcoholism. I don't want to accomodate a drunk because they can't help themselves. They need help. They need to reduce their alcohol consumption, but catering to their faults in the business world (would you expect a special line for drunks because otherwise they stumble into people?) is only reinforcing that bad behavior.

I don't know. I'm rarely a bigot about things, but if there's something I may be one about, and be ok with it, it's about obnoxiously large people THAT are that way because of their life choices. And MOST fat people are that way because they choose to be. I find people that have a medical affliction (and I don't accept addiction to food as one) are an exception to the rule. And before someone cries "but food addiction is a real medical affliction" let me just say, yes, as is drug addiction. Heroine addicts don't get a free pass because they have a medical condition when that medical condition is their addiction!

You know what I love more than anything? Before/After pics where a fattie pulled their shit together and beat their bad habits.
 
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boomerang

Lifer
Jun 19, 2000
18,890
642
126
I think airlines should do away with all fares and they should charge according to what you weigh...that way everybody would be treated equally!!!
Think bigger.

Declare air travel a right and everyone is allowed to fly anywhere in the U.S. on the government dole. Interpret it the same way progtards do and extend the privilege to everyone that is residing in the country regardless of their citizenship or status. Then, take it one step further and allow incarcerated felons to transfer to the prison of their choice on chartered planes.

Forward
 

rudder

Lifer
Nov 9, 2000
19,441
85
91
I didn't read the thread, but I was an engineer at a major US airline until a few months ago. Weight savings runs around $45 per pound per year, depending on fleet, but they are all around that. Our average was about 1100 flights per year, for all fleets combined.

Cost of extra weight is massively overblown. I used to have vendors try to pull out these $1000/pound-yr numbers and we would just laugh at them and their $100,000, 10 pound weight saving modifications.

BTW: Passenger weight on a 737-800 is only about 17% of the max takeoff weight. So it isn't like the plane would be free to operate if everyone was 90 pounds instead of 250.

I am more familiar with the Boeing 727... but there was a flap underneath the plane that helped draw in fresh air. If that was opened too much it caused significant drag and would effect fuel burn. We had strict guidelines one how far we could have it open in cruise. My company never washed the outside of the airplane either or the engines. Companies like southwest regularly wash exteriors as well as wash the turbine blades which is claimed to increase fuel efficiency about 1.9%.

So there are a lot of factors that affect overall fuel burn and this thing is silly. But I still agree though if your ass is wide enough to take up two seats.... you better pay for both of them.
 

MixMasterTang

Diamond Member
Jul 23, 2001
3,167
176
106
Honestly, this morning when I was getting off the subway, which was full, before anybody could even get off the train, a GIANT lady (probably 5'7 450) barges onto the train and literally blocked the door. It's like she didn't want to wait at all. Just knows she's huge and threw herself on the train. There was about 9 people wanting to get off the train at that particular door, and people had to squeeze by her. There was not enough time for everyone to get off as even the other exit doors had groups of people walking off. I fortunately bolted down to another door and slipped out before the doors closed, but I watched as the doors closed on some people. They were pissed! And I was pretty disgusted 'with fat people' today. The person totally fit the 'fuck everyone im fat i dont care' personality I was ranting about. The same person that squeezes into a seat too small and bulges over into your seat, only to look at you like "deal with it".

I have plenty of consideration for all walks of life. I'm hardly the smartest person around, much less this message board. I don't think I know better than all. I base all my opinions on life experience. Experience that is unique to me. I'm completely open to other perspectives.

I 100% understand that everyone has their struggles.

I understand that some people have a medical condition they can't beat and it makes them obese. I stated that already. This could be depression, etc.

I stand by my opinion that someone that continually overeats, doesn't work out, is lazy, and gets fat (not overweight, but taking up two seats fat) is 100% displaying bad behavior. its 2013, people should know better. This is a specific group of people. They don't seem to care about themselves, so I assume they don't care about others.

To me it's on par with alcoholism. I don't want to accomodate a drunk because they can't help themselves. They need help. They need to reduce their alcohol consumption, but catering to their faults in the business world (would you expect a special line for drunks because otherwise they stumble into people?) is only reinforcing that bad behavior.

I don't know. I'm rarely a bigot about things, but if there's something I may be one about, and be ok with it, it's about obnoxiously large people THAT are that way because of their life choices. And MOST fat people are that way because they choose to be. I find people that have a medical affliction (and I don't accept addiction to food as one) are an exception to the rule. And before someone cries "but food addiction is a real medical affliction" let me just say, yes, as is drug addiction. Heroine addicts don't get a free pass because they have a medical condition when that medical condition is their addiction!

You know what I love more than anything? Before/After pics where a fattie pulled their shit together and beat their bad habits.

I've ridden public transportation in New York, Boston, DC, Chicago, Los Angeles, San Francisco and many other US cities plus in over 10 foreign countries. I can recall only a few instances where someone else being overweight caused me any issues, so you do obviously have some sort of vendetta against overweight people.