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Air Marshalls more likely to be arrested than to actually arrest anyone

Exterous

Super Moderator
Jun 20, 2006
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air marshals were arrested 148 times from November 2002 through February 2012. There were another 58 instances of “criminal conduct.”

In addition, air marshals engaged in more than 5,000 less serious incidents of misconduct, ranging from 1,200 cases of lost equipment to missing 950 flights they were supposed to protect.

…250 air marshals have been terminated for misconduct; another 400 resigned or retired while facing investigation.

Air marshals have been suspended more than 900 times, resulting in more than 4,600 days lost to misconduct.

The Washington field office had the most incidents with 530 cases, followed by New York with 471, Chicago and Dallas with 373 each and Los Angeles with 363. There were 85 cases at air marshal headquarters, highlighting that in some cases, misconduct has extended to the top brass.
So since they arrest about 4.2 people per year since 2001 that means more Air Marshalls have been arrested than cases of Air Marshalls arresting people.

I feel so much safer with them on duty and forgetting loaded firearms in airport bathrooms and doing other fun things like these:

In 2003, a New York air marshal pulled his gun in a dispute over a parking space. Another failed to turn over his ammunition on an international trip, as required by diplomatic agreements, and was detained by Israeli airport security in 2004. That same year, a Las Vegas air marshal "discharged" his gun in a hotel room, penetrating a wall and shattering a mirror. In April, a Phoenix air marshal fired his during a fight outside a bar.

Still another left his handgun in the plane's lavatory in 2001, according to court papers. He realized it was missing only after a teenager found it.
More fine benchmarks for the TSA

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/washington/2008-11-12-air-marshals_N.htm

https://www.propublica.org/article/tsa-releases-data-on-air-marshal-misconduct-7-years-after-we-asked
 

kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
16,542
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I'm guessing most of them start the job thinking they are full on security and act accordingly. Then, after a few months of spending most of your time bored out of your mind, it turns into something more like what the rest of us do for repetitive flights: have a few drinks before you get on and hope you can nod off to make the day go quicker.

I'm curious as to what the brass got in trouble for. I really think booze should go the way of the cigarette for commercial flights. It would make flights a hell of a lot of safer. The near humidity free air inside most airline cabins exacerbates the dehydrating effect of alcohol, and that provides irritability - which when combined with inebriation can easily ruin the flight for everyone. Doesn't take an actual terrorist to reroute a flight!
 
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John Connor

Lifer
Nov 30, 2012
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Reading that pisses me off. Which already has my commonsense Conservative voice saying we need to privatize air marshals.

If I had a stack of cash, I mean like be a billionaire I'd lobby Congress to privatize air marshals. Then I would form my company that hires ex SEAL, Delta, Ranger and commando military members to work in my Airline Security Inc. organization.

There's Blackwater, Isn't there?

The Feds fuck shit up all the time. It needs restructuring and privatization. Here's how bloody stupid they are. They wear frigin uniforms! So you know who the damn air marshal is! I wouldn't allow that. Plain clothes all the way.

Anyway. I need to be a damn billionaire. I have other ideas as well. LOL
 
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hal2kilo

Lifer
Feb 24, 2009
15,281
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Reading that pisses me off. Which already has my commonsense Conservative voice saying we need to privatize air marshals.

If I had a stack of cash, I mean like be a billionaire I'd lobby Congress to privatize air marshals. Then I would form my company that hires ex SEAL, Delta, Ranger and commando military members to work in my Airline Security Inc. organization.

There's Blackwater, Isn't there?

The Feds fuck shit up all the time. It needs restructuring and privatization. Here's how bloody stupid they are. They wear frigin uniforms! So you know who the damn air marshal is! I wouldn't allow that. Plain clothes all the way.

Anyway. I need to be a damn billionaire. I have other ideas as well. LOL
I think you are thinking of TSA airport inspectors/security. The marshals are plain clothes. Its wouldn't work otherwise ya think.
 

John Connor

Lifer
Nov 30, 2012
22,848
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Shows how much I've been out of the loop. The dress code changed years ago! http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5737128

Yes, I would privatize the TSA as well. LOL Perhaps encompass it all into one entity.

Also there's another weak vector and that is the aircraft crew. Whether that be the shit truck, food caterer, or baggage handler. They all need stick background checks. I would also go over the security of the airport and who has access to what, etc. In fact this whole damn model needs to be UN kid tested and mother approved so to speak so that other foreign airports follow suit. I mean, what good is having good security state side and then you get on the plane in Cario only to blow up at thirty thousand?
 
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Exterous

Super Moderator
Jun 20, 2006
18,896
1,803
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I'm guessing most of them start the job thinking they are full on security and act accordingly. Then, after a few months of spending most of your time bored out of your mind, it turns into something more like what the rest of us do for repetitive flights: have a few drinks before you get on and hope you can nod off to make the day go quicker.
There are lots of business travelers who are able to deal with the boredom without getting arrested
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,083
490
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I think you are thinking of TSA airport inspectors/security. The marshals are plain clothes. Its wouldn't work otherwise ya think.
lok if John Conner was in charge Air Marshalls would be more worthless than they currently are because anybody who attacks would know them by their uniform.
 

Darwin333

Lifer
Dec 11, 2006
19,947
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kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
16,542
5,792
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There are lots of business travelers who are able to deal with the boredom without getting arrested
And I'll wager the ones with spot free travel records don't drink, or are at least not mean drunks. I'm not disagreeing that many in business know how to behave, but on the flip side violence and incidents while on an airplane aren't exactly rare. If you look into rerouted flights, disturbances that cause the crew to get involved, etc I think you will find the vast majority involve alcohol. It should be noted that we're also talking about a group that is armed, one that is somehow comprised of many people unable to do what should be a pretty easy job.

I haven't seen many details of why so many have gotten themselves into trouble, but I'd be very surprised if alcohol didn't play a role at all.
 

John Connor

Lifer
Nov 30, 2012
22,848
613
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lok if John Conner was in charge Air Marshalls would be more worthless than they currently are because anybody who attacks would know them by their uniform.

What are you rambling about? I said HAVING a uniform IS a bad idea! Fucking read yo! If I had a security company that managed both airport and airline security, only airport security would wear uniforms. And now that I think of it. Perhaps I'll have plain clothes personal walking around the airport as well.

I would hire mostly ex-SOCOM individuals.

Then after I establish this I would go to other countries and consult on what they need to do to increase security.

The biggest is not what people think. It's like I said. The baggage handlers, fuel tech, etc. This all needs to improve in terms of security.

There are also many things that can get past the security check before the gate. That needs to be fixed as well.
 

John Connor

Lifer
Nov 30, 2012
22,848
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That would defeat the entire purpose of the TSA. Contrary to popular belief the only purpose of the TSA is to remove liability from the airlines, making it private would defeat the purpose.

Why would there be liability with a company that handles security? Contracts can be formed if that's the case.
 

Darwin333

Lifer
Dec 11, 2006
19,947
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Why would there be liability with a company that handles security? Contracts can be formed if that's the case.
Because if they screw the pooch lots of people die and millions in property gets destroyed and when that happens people tend to sue the fuck out of whoever was supposed to prevent it from happening? Just a stab in the dark...
 

JulesMaximus

No Lifer
Jul 3, 2003
74,106
589
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What are you rambling about? I said HAVING a uniform IS a bad idea! Fucking read yo! If I had a security company that managed both airport and airline security, only airport security would wear uniforms. And now that I think of it. Perhaps I'll have plain clothes personal walking around the airport as well.

I would hire mostly ex-SOCOM individuals.

Then after I establish this I would go to other countries and consult on what they need to do to increase security.

The biggest is not what people think. It's like I said. The baggage handlers, fuel tech, etc. This all needs to improve in terms of security.

There are also many things that can get past the security check before the gate. That needs to be fixed as well.
Woo Hoo! More cost! More government surveillance! More taxes!

Wait, aren't you generally for less government?
 

JulesMaximus

No Lifer
Jul 3, 2003
74,106
589
126
Why would there be liability with a company that handles security? Contracts can be formed if that's the case.
Yes, we should isolate the people who do this sort of work from any kind of responsibility for their actions. And definitely isolate their employers too. Why have any sort of accountability? :sneaky:
 

John Connor

Lifer
Nov 30, 2012
22,848
613
121
Woo Hoo! More cost! More government surveillance! More taxes!

Wait, aren't you generally for less government?

Ass hat, with a private company you wouldn't have the major government blow hard crap that makes it so expensive. A good comparsion is the difference between a privately funded forest and a federal forest. The government ALWYS has overhead and red tape and things are ALWAYS three times as much the cost to operate. A private company would streamline this and provide a major cost reduction and in my opinion better security.
 

3chordcharlie

Diamond Member
Mar 30, 2004
9,861
1
81
Why would there be liability with a company that handles security? Contracts can be formed if that's the case.
You can't sign away liability. You can, however, legislate away liability.

Please do explain how privatizing air marshalls would lead to better air marshalls. Halfway through your first post I was sure you were going to say 'eliminate air marshalls', so the privatizing angle caught me off guard.
 

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