Air gapped or semi air gapped networks, anyone do this?

Red Squirrel

No Lifer
May 24, 2003
69,809
13,381
126
www.anyf.ca
With all these backdoors like Intel ME, and CPU vulnerabilities, VM escape vulnerabilities etc... I'm beginning to think I need a total redesign of my network to better mitigate this sort of thing.

Right now I have stuff split up using vlans, based on purpose, and risk. For example, anything that involves port forwarding to the internet is seen as high risk, as whatever that service is, whether it's a game server, or p2p application etc it could potentially have a remote code execution vulnerability that would then allow access to the rest of the network. So anything of that nature is on a vlan that I call "internet facing" which as is name suggests is for internet facing stuff. If any one of those services is hacked they are ideally limited to that vlan. BUT, with VM escape vulnerabilities, they could potentially escape out and then access the rest of the network... Then add Intel ME to the risk, and if the firewall (pfsense) has an Intel CPU (I think mine is old enough that I'm safe though) then my entire network is vulnerable. Then there's stuff like all the CPU vulnerabilities that come out every couple days. Intel CPUs are almost as bad as ISS 6.0 at this point. Seems every couple days a new exploit comes out. AMD may or may not be better. Basically it seems no matter how secure the software and your config/setup is, the hardware is what is the risk these days so you can't win.

So I've been thinking, the majority of my servers and data don't really need constant internet access. Maybe it's time to build an air gaped network, or at least, semi air gaped. I could simply split up the hardware to mitigate things like VM escape vulnerabilities and still have it connected to the main firewall, and have lot of rules to greatly limit the type of traffic. Or I could go even better and have a network that is totally not internet connected.

The challenge is then having to USB stuff over back and forth when I do need to move stuff to/from the internet. Publishing website changes to the live website, or updating OS, or installing new Linux packages etc. Also need to decide if my workstation is part of the air gaped network, or not. Almost need two workstations. Probably also want to avoid using a KVM for these two workstations just to be extra safe. I probably would not go as far as RF shielding the entire server room, though it is something I've pondered, because there are rumours that the Intel ME backdoor also has a backup 3G radio which means that even the machines behind the firewall are exposed. Though this has not been proven yet, and I have my doubts. Someone out there with the right gear would have been able to detect it by now and publish more detailed info.

Anyway not sure how far I'll actually go with this, there would be lot of cost involved as I need at least a separate VM and storage server as a start, and also more UPS capacity and power usage in general. But I'm kinda curious if anyone else has an air gaped network, or at least what kind of hardware/setup measures you take as a general way to mitigate all these hardware level vulnerabilities that have been coming out in the past years.
 

Bardock

Senior member
Mar 12, 2014
346
39
91
Depends on your adversary but people broke air gap systems a long time ago through Heat Signature even Faraday cage has been broken. So it all depends I just use tinfoil hat. Encrypt important things, hide your keys, never write down or tell your passphrase.
 
  • Like
Reactions: NTMBK

Red Squirrel

No Lifer
May 24, 2003
69,809
13,381
126
www.anyf.ca
Those methods are probably very unlikely to be used, and they also require some level of physical access like being within a proximity of the house or at least within line of sight, so that worries me less. More want to ensure that remote based vulnerabilities/backdoors arn't accessible. No password or passphrase or w/e is going to protect you from backdoors.
 

Bardock

Senior member
Mar 12, 2014
346
39
91
No encryption will.

If you have a backdoor, someone comes in, steals encrypted data but has no private key or passphrase to read it, then what?

As to proximity that's why I said depends on your adversary.

East German stasi used to actually live in the walls, attics and basements of a family for years, all for surveillance, and that was the 80s, much easier today.
 

Red Squirrel

No Lifer
May 24, 2003
69,809
13,381
126
www.anyf.ca
But backdoors like intel ME run at such a low level they'll be able to see the data while it's decrypted by reading memory etc. And how do I encrypt my overall activities, such as what is in memory? Reaslisticly you can only really encrypt files or data streams.

The idea is to stop them from being able to get on the system in first place. If they are on the system, it's already compromised.

Encryption is still good for at least critical stuff like password databases, but it does not prevent access it only slows it down. Good idea to encrypt OS installation too but no encryption is 100%. You can brute force an encrypted file and eventually get a key that works. It's a matter of when not if, as computers are always getting faster.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Bardock

Ajay

Lifer
Jan 8, 2001
16,094
8,111
136
But backdoors like intel ME run at such a low level they'll be able to see the data while it's decrypted by reading memory etc. And how do I encrypt my overall activities, such as what is in memory? Reaslisticly you can only really encrypt files or data streams.
Holy smokes Red, you running a micro bank out of your basement?? No sophisticated hacker is going to waste their time on your system- no offense.
 

Red Squirrel

No Lifer
May 24, 2003
69,809
13,381
126
www.anyf.ca
Holy smokes Red, you running a micro bank out of your basement?? No sophisticated hacker is going to waste their time on your system- no offense.

The point of securing a network is to eliminate ALL possibilities. Otherwise, there is no point.

Anyway I was just curious if anyone actually has an air gapped network and how they work it etc. Guess there's not really any standard way.

Basically with all the backdoors and exploits these days that are right at the hardware level, I've come to realize that software solutions are just not enough to protect a network anymore, it's best to simply keep the most important stuff offline. Passwords, bitcoin wallets, development environments etc.
 

Bardock

Senior member
Mar 12, 2014
346
39
91
no he's right thats been a thing for a long time.

There was a company called

Libreboot

That would buy new laptops, burn in custom firmware that could not be access remotely, and sell the lappy as Libreboot laptop.

Intel and lawyers sued them and hammered with cease and desist bs lawsuits and ran them in the ground.

I understand what you mean red squerril and agree encryption isn't' an end all.

But the os limitations and ram data you mention are easy if you use a live os that wipes when you pull the usb
 

Bardock

Senior member
Mar 12, 2014
346
39
91
Maybe look into image stenography and the other thing where you hide your data in the code of a program that works when you click it and only you know to look for the data inside.

That shit is slick, it wil have a normal desktop icon says whatever mspaint and no one is the wiser.
 

IJTSSG

Golden Member
Aug 12, 2014
1,123
281
136
The point of securing a network is to eliminate ALL possibilities. Otherwise, there is no point.

Anyway I was just curious if anyone actually has an air gapped network and how they work it etc. Guess there's not really any standard way.

Basically with all the backdoors and exploits these days that are right at the hardware level, I've come to realize that software solutions are just not enough to protect a network anymore, it's best to simply keep the most important stuff offline. Passwords, bitcoin wallets, development environments etc.

That's not the point of securing a network, not even close. That may be your goal (folly) but any first year IA student understands that eliminating all vulnerabilities isn't possible.

We run quite a few air gapped systems where I work. It eliminates a ton of vulnerabilities. Right up until you have to plug a laptop in to troubleshoot, a USB drive to do an update, a piece of test equipment to pull some data . . . . . .
 
  • Like
Reactions: Bardock

Bardock

Senior member
Mar 12, 2014
346
39
91
@IJTSSG is 100% correct, social engineering is a much bigger threat than os updates and all the software things people obsess about. A concise accurate post in at security. What are you doing here lol?