AIO Liquid cooler noise and other case cooling questions plus CPU & GPU OCing.

[Crow550]

I picked up a Cooler Master Seidon 120V for my 2500K as I plan to OC it and it seemed like a decent deal @ $35....

Installed it and at first the fan was really loud so went in the bios and set it to only ramp up at X temp.

So now the fan is quiet but now I notice the pump noise. Is this normal noise as some say this cooler is silent (after turning down or replacing the fan): https://youtu.be/VUEZ07bIFMM (Gonna ask around and contact Cooler Master too.)

Temps are 30c idle and 65c using Intel Burn Test @ 3.30ghz (not OC'd). Using Arctic Silver 5 so have to wait the 200 hour break in too.

I also got a Cooler Master Sleeve Bearing 140mm to blow air in the front of the case and a Cooler Master MegaFlow 200 for the side but that just raised the GPU to 75c. So might have to resell it as I can't seem to fit it for another top exhaust. (68c now OC'd). I'm still learning about optimal fan placement and such.

So I have one fan in the bottom front blowing air in then a 200mm top fan by the back 120mm fan where the Radiator is, blowing air out (should I use the cases 120mm for push pull on the Radiator?). I made a previous thread on this: http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2420188

Case: http://www.nzxt.com/product/detail/34-phantom.html

Mobo: Asrock Z68 Extreme3 Gen3

CPU: i5-2500k

GPU: MSI Lightning R9 290X

I'm also new to OCing. Should I just use the Mobo's Turbo 50 or one of the presets?

Last time I messed with the Turbo 50 on stock cooling here was the result: http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2210142&page=5

Thanks for helping.

 

[alcoholbob]

Closed loop coolers are much, much louder than low rpm air cooling. A typical Asetek radiator by itself with no fans attached will be louder than entire PCs such as your typical air cooled OEM Dell PC. CLC cooling is for those who have specific space restrictions (aka X99 boards have their top PCIE slot covered by most aftermarket air coolers). They are not meant for noise restriction. If you want silence, go air cooling, get one of those cases with a window, and remove the window. Voila. Fans never spin up during gaming.

 

[Sabrewings]

If you want silence, go air cooling, get one of those cases with a window, and remove the window. Voila. Fans never spin up during gaming.

No, no, no...

If you want silence you go custom loop. Not closed loop or air.

 

[MoInSTL]

That doesn't sound good. Is that link to your PC?

Try running it full bore for a few minutes to see if it will clear out. If not, then call Cooler Master. You need to exchange it.

My AIO is a little different as it has a variable pump & fans and dead quiet.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Closed loop coolers are much, much louder than low rpm air cooling. A typical Asetek radiator by itself with no fans attached will be louder than entire PCs such as your typical air cooled OEM Dell PC. CLC cooling is for those who have specific space restrictions (aka X99 boards have their top PCIE slot covered by most aftermarket air coolers). They are not meant for noise restriction. If you want silence, go air cooling, get one of those cases with a window, and remove the window. Voila. Fans never spin up during gaming.

Now you've piqued my interest for AiO cooling. Why? Because it would seem more of a challenge on the noise angle.

I'm currently ruminating over a possible project sometime in the next year with either AiO or custom. The ruminations continue from the year before, when I first entertained an idea of an IB-E and X79.

Almost repetitious with this, I keep putting it off. My Sandy-K's are more than fast enough for me now; I built an IB-K for my brother in January from used parts. I'm even leaning to the thought that I could never really use a hex-core system.

Not wanting to shell out $140 now for an H240X AiO, the issues you mention make it intriguing. "Ah bet ah cun fix dat!" When I'm willing to, anyway.:biggrin:

 

[MoInSTL]

Oh my gosh, I am so tired of the generalizations that closed loop coolers are loud. A lot are, but mine is not. I can't even hear it. It has a variable pump and fans which makes a difference. It's the only AIO that is variable. As well as Noctua NF-P14 140mm fans. So go ahead and write off the SPCR review if you want. How about the Tweak Town link everyone seems so fond of? The chart below shows the Kraken x61 is a mere FIVE decibels louder than the Noctua NH-D15. Mine is even lower as I'm not using stock fans. Does it get louder? Sure it does. But that's why the CAM app has fan curves that can be set. In the real world, no one is going to run it full bore except for benching.

 

[lehtv]

Actually in that chart it is 5 dB louder, not 4. And 5 dB is not trivial by any measure, it can be the difference between comfortably quiet vs loud enough to require action such as swapping new fans for it as you did.

If there's one AIO with variable pump speed and dozens without, and even that one AIO is noticeably louder than high end air coolers, then it's hardly an unfounded generalization that CLC's are loud.

 

[MoInSTL]

You know, I originally typed Five. Then I edited it and goofed the math. I'll change it back. Not only that but I also thought I was posting in a different thread where several generalizations were made. Several charts posted, etc. That's what happens when I am messing around with a new GPU and not paying attention.

IMO and only my opinion, one well known vendor gives AIOs a bad name. Lots of noise and buggy software. Their MMV but I wasn't going to try to put lipstick on it.

You know me from my Sandy Bridge build in an R4 and the towering HR-02 Macho. I still appreciate all of your help then and being patient with my numerous PMs. I can honestly tell you this is dead quiet in an R5. My fans spin between 600-660 as I type this. It is also bottom front mounted and the door is closed. I can't hear it. I didn't want to mount it in the traditional top position as I didn't want to open the top moduvent covers. Can I hear it if I crank it up? I can. Kind of like the noise difference in the Fractal fan controller going from 5v to 7v to an audible 12v.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

No, no, no...

If you want silence you go custom loop. Not closed loop or air.

Well, ultimately, either heatpipes or radiators need airflow. Sure -- watercooling of any sort moves heat away from the CPU efficiently and quickly, but it must be disposed of through airflow passing through the radiator.

So you'll use fans, and if you want to increase the CFM to get maximum heat-removal, there'll be noise to contend with.

Incidentally, someone mentioned a fan, maybe CoolerMaster, with a sleeve bearing. I'd banish all sleeve bearings from my computer case. Whether it's 140mm, 120mm or 200mm -- you can always find a rifle-bearing or better in the fan choices.

 

[lehtv]

You know me from my Sandy Bridge build in an R4 and the towering HR-02 Macho. I still appreciate all of your help then and being patient with my numerous PMs.

Yeah I remember. I wondered what made you switch away from the HR-02... I'm still using my trusty Scythe Mugen 2 from 5 years ago.

I can honestly tell you this is dead quiet in an R5. My fans spin between 600-660 as I type this. It is also bottom front mounted and the door is closed. I can't hear it. I didn't want to mount it in the traditional top position as I didn't want to open the top moduvent covers. Can I hear it if I crank it up? I can. Kind of like the noise difference in the Fractal fan controller going from 5v to 7v to an audible 12v.

That's good to hear ... (pun intended)

 

[BonzaiDuck]

You know, I originally typed Five. Then I edited it and goofed the math. I'll change it back. Not only that but I also thought I was posting in a different thread where several generalizations were made. Several charts posted, etc. That's what happens when I am messing around with a new GPU and not paying attention.

IMO and only my opinion, one well known vendor gives AIOs a bad name. Lots of noise and buggy software. Their MMV but I wasn't going to try to put lipstick on it.

You know me from my Sandy Bridge build in an R4 and the towering HR-02 Macho. I still appreciate all of your help then and being patient with my numerous PMs. I can honestly tell you this is dead quiet in an R5. My fans spin between 600-660 as I type this. It is also bottom front mounted and the door is closed. I can't hear it. I didn't want to mount it in the traditional top position as I didn't want to open the top moduvent covers. Can I hear it if I crank it up? I can. Kind of like the noise difference in the Fractal fan controller going from 5v to 7v to an audible 12v.

It's only one comparison review, and I didn't see the TDP of the test-bed. The X61 has a 1C edge over the D15.

Noise -- that's something else, but the X61 trumps the D15 by something close to 1 dBA.

I just don't place a lot of stock in stock fans. D15 is too big, and I can do better with the ACX cooler. But on the size angle, all the AiOs present something just shy of the problem of custom-water for fitting parts to the case.

One member, Lepton87, migrated his 5820K system from an NH-D14 to an MO_RA3. You would've expected the MO-RA3 to really put a chill on that chip, but it was quite a disappointment. And his clocks weren't all that high.

I just hope Lepton doesn't secretly blame me for pointing him towards the MO-RA3, because -- before the performance angle was apparent, he was already complaining about spending buckets of ducats. It wasn't my intention to use him for a guinea-pig.

 

[MoInSTL]

Yeah I remember. I wondered what made you switch away from the HR-02... I'm still using my trusty Scythe Mugen 2 from 5 years ago.

I planned on using it and somehow lost a couple of parts. Not like me to misplace stuff. Decided to go a different direction and try something new.

 

[dlerious]

I'm using a Thermaltake Water 3.0 Ultimate with i7-4790k right now. I was expecting the noise to be a lot worse, but it's not that bad (quieter than my other computer). Temps maxed out at 47C running OCCT at stock. Fan RPM ~1800.

Waiting on my new case (Caselabs S8), so I have everything sitting outside right now. Picked up the TT as a stop gap while waiting for my case. I have an EK kit to install, but don't want to be cutting hose for the loops until I can measure.

 

[Ma_Deuce]

Actually in that chart it is 5 dB louder, not 4. And 5 dB is not trivial by any measure, it can be the difference between comfortably quiet vs loud enough to require action such as swapping new fans for it as you did.

If there's one AIO with variable pump speed and dozens without, and even that one AIO is noticeably louder than high end air coolers, then it's hardly an unfounded generalization that CLC's are loud.

The chart you are are using is from open chassis testing. I don't see how it is that usefull for testing aio vs open air. It's basically best case for open air and worst case for aio

The same test in an actuall case with the inclusion of GPU temps and testing while stressing the gpu at the same time would be a much better representation of what most people would see in normal use.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

I planned on using it and somehow lost a couple of parts. Not like me to misplace stuff. Decided to go a different direction and try something new.

I'm using a Thermaltake Water 3.0 Ultimate with i7-4790k right now. I was expecting the noise to be a lot worse, but it's not that bad (quieter than my other computer). Temps maxed out at 47C running OCCT at stock. Fan RPM ~1800.

Waiting on my new case (Caselabs S8), so I have everything sitting outside right now. Picked up the TT as a stop gap while waiting for my case. I have an EK kit to install, but don't want to be cutting hose for the loops until I can measure.

Certainly, it's interesting to see how these options have arisen, and how fence-sitters such as I have been slow to pull the trigger.

TDPs have dropped on many processors, as have the die-size along with the lithography. One improvement cancels the other. And with more cores (such as MoInSTL's 5820K and its pricier flagship), the TDP has gone higher than a GulfTown.

Then you look at the temperature profiles for the two mainstream options. Looking at dlerious' chip and rig, 47C under OCCT load is really quite good. But I'd seen another member using an H80i with about 56C under IBT load, and I can't tell whether dlerious was using the OCCT:CPU test, or the OCCT:Linpack test -- hotter than the former.

I know I can match the other member's result with a heatpipe cooler. Or, come damn close.

One then begins to look at the complexity or simplicity of one option over the other, and the expense of the very best options such as those dlerious is planning.

Exploring that theme further, more exotic options excluding phase-change, like bong and volenti coolers, can keep a CPU almost at ambient under load, but then you have complexity and unwieldiness on steroids with the Rube-Goldberg contraptions.

In all of this, we're exploring clocks and voltage considerably above spec. For some processors, the heatpipe range of possibilities may be just a few hundred Mhz -- maybe less -- short of less-than-extreme water-cooled possibilities. With others like the Hassy-E cores, I feel like the Three Kings of the Orient: I'm looking for some star of innovation as I contemplate "getting wet" and "wading in."

Now that I look at the TT Water 3.0, that's just no ordinary AiO: it may be AiO but it's custom-water-class. So no wonder you get 47C at load with that sucker! Radiators rule!

I guess that's something else to look at. TT years ago left me with an impression of high-level bling with their products but lesser quality. But all this changes in the marketplace over time.

Gotta take a closer look at that one . . . I would've avoided TT AiO's in the past without blinking an eye. I just blinked.

POSTSCRIPT: An aluminum radiator. Now I'm wondering which of other AiOs have AL rads. Hmmm. . . . Sooner or later, AigoMorla may get a PM from me for some consultation about some parts . . . . depending on when I eventually "pool da stringk" on the whole enchilada. . . .

 

[dlerious]

Now that I look at the TT Water 3.0, that's just no ordinary AiO: it may be AiO but it's custom-water-class. So no wonder you get 47C at load with that sucker! Radiators rule!

I guess that's something else to look at. TT years ago left me with an impression of high-level bling with their products but lesser quality. But all this changes in the marketplace over time.

I was surprised by how well it's been working. I'm with you on the quality aspect regarding TT. If I didn't have the spare cash, I would've probably gone air.

 

[MoInSTL]

TDPs have dropped on many processors, as have the die-size along with the lithography. One improvement cancels the other. And with more cores (such as MoInSTL's 5820K and its pricier flagship)

I only have 6 cores, the other two have 8.

I just couldn't spend almost a grand on a CPU. I was tempted, but decided I'd rather build a new one sooner rather than later. At that price I would run it until it was beaten to death like my old Slot 1s & Athlon.

 

[MrTeal]

POSTSCRIPT: An aluminum radiator. Now I'm wondering which of other AiOs have AL rads. Hmmm. . . . Sooner or later, AigoMorla may get a PM from me for some consultation about some parts . . . . depending on when I eventually "pool da stringk" on the whole enchilada. . . .

It'd be a shorter list if you compiled the ones that don't have Al rads. As far as I know, Swiftech (and its OEM Glacier units) are the only ones. Corsair's Hxxi series and all the other CoolIt ones are Al. All the Asetek ones are as well. Coolermaster's line is (at least the Seidon and Nepton), as well as the Antec Kuhlers.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

I only have 6 cores, the other two have 8.

I just couldn't spend almost a grand on a CPU. I was tempted, but decided I'd rather build a new one sooner rather than later. At that price I would run it until it was beaten to death like my old Slot 1s & Athlon.

Oh, you're good to go. $1,000 is a lean budget.

That's why I haven't pulled the trigger myself yet. It would boil down to either an AiO or custom water for me, and I even started looking at the 5930K again.

I still can't justify enough need for it to actually do it. I'm not even sure I "need" the hex-core.

I think I'm "back to the drawing board."