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Ain't No Homos Gonna Make It to Heaven

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NeoV

Diamond Member
Apr 18, 2000
9,530
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the shame here is instilling hate in children who don't know any better

kid on the bus with my kids said, a few years ago when the traffic was held up because Obama was nearby - "someone needs to shoot that Ni*#$#".

this was a 4th grader - at least one of his parents didn't even have a problem with it....
 

SMOGZINN

Lifer
Jun 17, 2005
13,184
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So... In the beginning and looking at that now my faith is belief without proof and so is the atheists...
No, atheists are lack of faith with out proof. Lack of belief is not belief of a lack.
This is logically consistent.
 

LunarRay

Diamond Member
Mar 2, 2003
9,993
1
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No, atheists are lack of faith with out proof. Lack of belief is not belief of a lack.
This is logically consistent.
In my context we both agree that the universe is... and apparently started from some big bang... The belief of how it started is my point. The atheist believes it started one way and me another... there is no lack there just difference. Neither can prove either wrong or right... so how do they arrive at their conclusions? Belief!
 

SMOGZINN

Lifer
Jun 17, 2005
13,184
2,761
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In my context we both agree that the universe is... and apparently started from some big bang... The belief of how it started is my point. The atheist believes it started one way and me another... there is no lack there just difference. Neither can prove either wrong or right... so how do they arrive at their conclusions? Belief!
I'm an atheist. I have no beliefs about what happened before the universe, because I have no evidence. It does not even seem like the sort of thing that can be known.
 

Charles Kozierok

Elite Member
May 14, 2012
6,762
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In my context we both agree that the universe is... and apparently started from some big bang... The belief of how it started is my point. The atheist believes it started one way and me another... there is no lack there just difference. Neither can prove either wrong or right... so how do they arrive at their conclusions? Belief!
Sorry, they are not equivalent.

"I don't know" is an honest and valid answer, and does not indicate "belief".
 

LunarRay

Diamond Member
Mar 2, 2003
9,993
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Heaven will have a distinct lack of music and dance if we allow The Gays to burn in hell :hmm:

People who aren't lazy as hell could always learn to play an instrument, but that's too hard. Let's just force The Gays to get into heaven and play for us.
Well... I'm sorta selective and although I like some of Elton's work I'd not support a draft Elton toward heaven... I do like most of Jim Morrison's stuff but he's already in the hot tub so... I guess I'll have to research who makes music and is Gay.... then try to sort out their thinking...

I think God could have sorted all this out long before now... What was this Free Will crap all about anyhow... create the means to go to hell? Guess he created Hell then wondered what was he going to do with it... ah.... I'll make people and toss them in. hmmmm Free Will... that's the ticket...

I'd have advised him to simply create willing folks if that is all he wanted. Or maybe eliminate the Devil and evil and hell too. And why start with Adam and Eve... Go right to Noah... And why the humane society didn't complain that all but two of each species was allowed to live... what did those poor Roos do to anyone or the lions and what about those fish... how come they got off Scott free.

I'm beginning to think Moses was dyslexic or maybe also neurotic too.
 

cybrsage

Lifer
Nov 17, 2011
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For the Jew that is the appropriate bit... they don't believe Jesus to be the Messiah...
Jesus said he was or at least alluded to that.. and he brought a new covenant and laws.... Two that he said all others flow from... I figure he didn't lie, ergo, there it is.

How can you love God and purposefully disobey His commandments at the same time? Besides, Jesus was straight up copying what God already said.

Mark 12:29 (Deut 6:4)
Sh'ma Yisrael, Adonai Eloheinu, Adonai Echad. Hear (hear, listen, understand, and obey) oh Israel. The Lord is our God, The Lord is One.

This is said in every Jewish synagogue on the Earth every Shabbat. It is followed by the V'ahav'ta:
V'ahav'ta eit Adonai Elohekha b'khol l'vav'kha uv'khol naf'sh'kha uv'khol m'odekha. (It continues on).

which also appears in Mark 12:30 (and Deut 6:5 onwards):

Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.


Now mind you, God does not mind us blatantly ripping off His work, provided we are doing it to glorify Him - in fact, He rather expects it and it happy we do it.

Jesus certainly was not saying "go practice sexual immoraity". :)
 

cybrsage

Lifer
Nov 17, 2011
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I'm an atheist. I have no beliefs about what happened before the universe, because I have no evidence. It does not even seem like the sort of thing that can be known.
Not to pick nits, but time started when the universe started (the whole time-space thing requires space to work), so technically there is no "before" the universe began since the word before is a temporal base word.
 

LunarRay

Diamond Member
Mar 2, 2003
9,993
1
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Sorry, they are not equivalent.

"I don't know" is an honest and valid answer, and does not indicate "belief".

Sure! If they say 'I don't know' they have no belief on the subject... while I would... But, if they state 'this or that' as in this universe is a baby universe born from a black hole found in another universe they have adopted a belief equal but different to mine...
IF they call it a possibility and have not adopted that as truth do they have even only an itty bitty bit of belief? I think so. Is being certain about something that is not axiomatic the only thing that has a belief part?

In any event, I am assigning belief in my example... sure the person next door may not have belief and the deal is moot but I think I can find belief in mere speculation... not much but some.
 

SMOGZINN

Lifer
Jun 17, 2005
13,184
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Not to pick nits, but time started when the universe started (the whole time-space thing requires space to work), so technically there is no "before" the universe began since the word before is a temporal base word.
I understand that, I was working with in the frame given. Trying to explain that 'before' has no meaning when we are talking about time itself is not going to help the argument.
 

SMOGZINN

Lifer
Jun 17, 2005
13,184
2,761
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Sure! If they say 'I don't know' they have no belief on the subject... while I would... But, if they state 'this or that' as in this universe is a baby universe born from a black hole found in another universe they have adopted a belief equal but different to mine...
IF they call it a possibility and have not adopted that as truth do they have even only an itty bitty bit of belief? I think so. Is being certain about something that is not axiomatic the only thing that has a belief part?

In any event, I am assigning belief in my example... sure the person next door may not have belief and the deal is moot but I think I can find belief in mere speculation... not much but some.
To be fair, they have a reason for a itty bitty bit of belief. Black holes exist, and they have some very weird and not fully understood properties.
I'm not saying I believe such a thing, but it has more evidence then certain other hypotheses.
 

cybrsage

Lifer
Nov 17, 2011
13,021
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How does Gen 2:16 turn into 6 laws? :confused:
It is complex and is not evident at first blush. To understand, you have to know a little bit about Hebrew. It is believed that the Israelites spoke and wrote Hebrew because God put the language into their ancestors at the Tower of Babel split. He did this because the Hebrew language is very complex and has meanings inside meanings...allowing Him to write a surface meaning and various deeper meanings with the same words. Arabic is also a complex language and can do much the same thing (to show another language readily capable of this).

Each word has meaning as the word itself, but it also has a reference to other uses of the same word. Also, the first time a word is used is important, as that is a pointer to other uses of the same word. To show a very simplified English use of such a thing, imagine this:

A teenager is working at a gas station. A man walks in to pay for his gas. He hands over the cash, exposing a red wristwatch from under his shirtsleeve, and leaves. A few hours later, another man runs in, bleeding from a gunshot to the stomache. The dying man hands a USB memory stick to the teenager and croaks out "Get this to the FBI, it is vital. Trust no one...and if you see someone with a red wristwatch on, he is part of the group trying to prevent the FBI from knowing." The man who spoke suddenly spasms and dies, a dart in his neck.

A red wristwatch obvious is something we all have seen and would quickly dismiss. However, given the info later on, the importance of seeing the wristwatch suddenly becomes important.

Also, since the Hebrew numbers are all letters (like in Roman), each letter has a number value and that is important as well.

Much is lost when translating out of the native writings.


Here is a basic breakdown of how the Noahide Laws are derived:

There is a fundamental principle in Torah Judaism that every part of the Oral Torah can be found hinted at in the Written Torah. Using these methods of exegesis, the Mishna in Sanhedrin 56a derives the Noachide Laws given to Adam from Genesis 2:16. The Seventh Law is recorded outright to Noach in Genesis 9:4. They are formalised by the Rambam [7] in his monumental Codification of Torah Law, Mishne Torah, Section Hilchot Melachim (The Laws of Kings), 9:1.

Avodah Zarah - The prohibition against idolatry
Birkat HaShem - The prohibition against blasphemy
Shefichut-Damim - The prohibition against murder
Gilui Arayot - The prohibition on sexual immorality
HaGezel - The prohibition against theft.
HaDinim - The command to establish laws and courts of justice
Ever min haChai - The prohibition against eating the limb of a living animal.

The derivation of the first six laws From Genesis 2:16 is accomplished as follows:

VAYITSAV HASHEM ELOKIM AL HAADM LEIMOR MICHAL EITS HAGAN OCHEL
And Hashem God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden you may freely eat.

Idolatry: TSAV (command). As evident from Hosea 5:11, TSAV is an allusion to the worship of idols. There, the word TSAV is used directly in reference people doing the command (TSAV) of idolatrous priests (Rashi) and the wicked kings (Radak).

Blasphemy: HASHEM (God). The word develops an association between this verse and the prohibition against cursing God mentioned in the verse Leviticus 24:16, which explicitly uses the name HASHEM.

Murder: AL HAADAM (To the Man). The words refer to the command against murder as mentioned in Genesis 9:6 where the word ADAM is also used to describe man.

Sexual Immorality: LEIMOR (saying). The word LEIMOR establishes a connection between this verse and Jeremiah 3:1, which starts with the word LEIMOR. Jeremiah 3:1 discusses acts which are sexually immoral.

Theft: This is derived from the plain meaning of the verse to granting license to eat from the trees of the garden for otherwise Adam would have been forbidden to do so, because the property did not belong to him.

Courts of Justice: ELOKIM (God). Exodus 22:27 uses that Name in reference to judges and the judical process.

Flesh from a Living Animal: Nevertheless, you may not eat flesh with its life, which is its blood. This is not derived from Genesis 2:16. Rather, from the plain meaning of Genesis 9:4.
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080129125949AAWt1T5
 

cybrsage

Lifer
Nov 17, 2011
13,021
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I understand that, I was working with in the frame given. Trying to explain that 'before' has no meaning when we are talking about time itself is not going to help the argument.
Agreed. I simply find is fascinating that we cannot even truely comprehend what it is like without time.
 

ShawnD1

Lifer
May 24, 2003
15,999
2
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Well... I'm sorta selective and although I like some of Elton's work I'd not support a draft Elton toward heaven... I do like most of Jim Morrison's stuff but he's already in the hot tub so... I guess I'll have to research who makes music and is Gay.... then try to sort out their thinking...
The black version of Elvis is gay
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=QFL047fmsgg#t=8s
It's hard to believe that dude is almost 80 years old and he's still rocking out. He's done a great job of never going outside without makeup, so there aren't many photos around where he looks old like Clint Eastwood who is only 3 years older.
 

LunarRay

Diamond Member
Mar 2, 2003
9,993
1
76
I'm an atheist. I have no beliefs about what happened before the universe, because I have no evidence. It does not even seem like the sort of thing that can be known.
That is my point.

I have a belief about how it came to be... no proof but faith that my belief is true.

That a thing can't be know don't mean some answer is not True... What the answer is is the issue.
 

LunarRay

Diamond Member
Mar 2, 2003
9,993
1
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To be fair, they have a reason for a itty bitty bit of belief. Black holes exist, and they have some very weird and not fully understood properties.
I'm not saying I believe such a thing, but it has more evidence then certain other hypotheses.
Indeed it does... and quite interesting as well...
 

Lanyap

Elite Member
Dec 23, 2000
7,169
958
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Oops, they got caught.

5/30/12 - The Pastor and members of Apostolic Truth Tabernacle do not condone, teach, or practice hate of any person for any reason. We believe and hope that every person can find true Bible salvation and the mercy and grace of God in their lives. We are a strong advocate of the family unit according to the teachings and precepts found in the Holy Bible. We believe the Holy Bible is the Divinely-inspired Word of God and we will continue to uphold and preach that which is found in scripture.
http://www.apostolictruthtabernacle.net/

 

blankslate

Diamond Member
Jun 16, 2008
8,471
423
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Well....

I am certainly going to laugh at all the religious foolishness when myself and only a handful of others are saved during the surprise twist ending of the apocalypse when Cthulthu saves the world from the deluded ones.
 

ShawnD1

Lifer
May 24, 2003
15,999
2
81
It's weird religions don't try to pander to The Gays. With no kids to take care of, The Gays are often filthy stinkin rich.
 

LunarRay

Diamond Member
Mar 2, 2003
9,993
1
76
It's weird religions don't try to pander to The Gays. With no kids to take care of, The Gays are often filthy stinkin rich.
If you had said 'Catholic Church'.... I could tell you why the Gays don't provide the greater need....
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,876
460
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Yeah, we already know all that about the homos. What we NEED to know are the dogmatic implications of our suit coats. They have any songs about Leviticus 19:19?
 

sportage

Diamond Member
Feb 1, 2008
9,456
1,457
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I have always has a different twist on the bible vs homos thing (not my term of choice).
The bible states a man should not lie with another man as with a woman.
Ok. I agree. And who does that target?
Hetro men....

Yes... all those hetro men out there, if you're straight, do not cross that line.
But if your gay, you'd never lie with a woman as you do a man in the first place.
Not if you're really gay (homo).

What the bible is simply stating is keep to your own sex.
If there is a message to be found here, it is directed to those hetro males that cross the line. And you know who you are....!
 

brandonb

Diamond Member
Oct 17, 2006
3,731
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My Catholic Priest says there is nothing wrong with gays (or homos in this case). The act of homosexual sex is a sin in God's eyes, but there is nothing wrong with the person themselves.

My Catholic Priest also says God is a loving God. We are judged based on how loving we are. To be selfish is the devils work.

Sounds like to me this Church isn't so loving. I wonder who they really worship.
 

IndyColtsFan

Lifer
Sep 22, 2007
33,528
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I find it particularly amusing that they release this statement, but that douchebag "pastor" is clearly the guy behind the kid when he is singing and seems especially overjoyed when the kid sings the "ain't no homos going to heaven" line.

Also, if you ever want to make a young woman look old, the photo above is like a blueprint. She must have received that outfit from grandma's estate sale.
 

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