Aid to Egypt Can Keep Flowing, Despite Overthrow, White House Decides

[Genx87]

Apparently Sgt. Schultz is running our executive branch now.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/26/w...tml?partner=rss&emc=rss&smid=tw-nytimes&_r=1&

If the white house doesnt see a coup did it happen?

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

deeeeeeeeerrrrrrrrp de derrrrrrrrrrrp

This is where in normal life people would say "Take the remote away from him."


Police of the world, yadda yadda. Apparently if you give them guns and only send in your men if too many of theirs die that isn't policing the world, just INDIRECTLY policing the world. "We don't want you to take on this kind of dictatorship so WERE GOING TO GIVE GUNS TO YOUR ENEMY!"

 

[glenn1]

Aid to Egypt Can Keep Flowing, Despite Overthrow, White House Decides

The aid isn't really to Egypt but rather General Dynamics and the other military contactors. Egypt is just the pass-through for those companies to offload some last generation hardware like 1st gen Abrams tanks and F16s.

 

[OutHouse]

 

[Jaskalas]

Are the military supplies going to be delivered to the Egyptian military or the Muslim Brotherhood terrorist organization?

 

[DucatiMonster696]

As much as I dislike the MB and think they are vile and repugnant, a military coup d'etat is not the way to resolve political issues in a nation. Neither is locking out the majority who voted for the MB. You won't achieve any kind of meaningful long lasting peace and reconciliation that way. All you do is fermante the seeds of hate and distrust that will ripen and bloom in the future.

 

[Agent11]

Eh. Morsi was a religious nut and was subverting the government, I think this should work out for the best.

 

[werepossum]

The Egyptian military is pretty friendly to the USA. Why would we cut off aid to the people who like us just because they ousted the people who don't like us?

Hopefully there will soon be another series of elections, Egyptians will choose a more moderate government, and all will be well. Until then, as long as the Egyptian people are happy having the Egyptian military in power I'm ecstatic.

 

[Thebobo]

yea bad situation but what ya gonna do?

 

[EagleKeeper]

I thought the military cracked down because the president started to bypass the laws.

They told him to straighten up. He thought the military was bluffing.

They were not.

This seemed to be afoul against a elected official that was bending the laws fir his cronies

 

[Jhhnn]

Morsi was just incapable of handling Egypt's affairs. The reasons are immaterial. They're in a revolutionary period, fer chrissakes, so the need for solid action is quite pressing.

Aid? No matter how it works out, Aid now is extremely valuable to our present & potential future friends in Egypt, to the Egyptian people. Friends help friends when they need it.

We've had an entirely decent relationship for a long time, particularly between the Militaries, and there's no point in throwing that away.

 

[unokitty]

If the white house doesnt see a coup did it happen?

Every administration has certain core skills. Is it Obama's fault that denial is his administration's core skill?

At least they are not trying to blame what happened in Egypt on a Youtube video...

Uno

 

[Genx87]

yea bad situation but what ya gonna do?

Gee I don't know, follow the rule of law? Was this a coup or not? Does the law state when a democractically elected govt is overthrown we suspend aid or not?

It isn't hard to understand why the ME views us in such a poor light. When their democractically elected institutions are over thrown we are right there supporting the overthrowers. When their statist institutions don't do what we like, we crush them under the name of democracy.

Think about our current flashpoints in the ME. We are planning to support rebels in Syria under the banner of freedom while propping up a military coup of a democractically elected govt in Egypt.

 

[Balt]

Gee I don't know, follow the rule of law? Was this a coup or not? Does the law state when a democractically elected govt is overthrown we suspend aid or not?

It isn't hard to understand why the ME views us in such a poor light. When their democractically elected institutions are over thrown we are right there supporting the overthrowers. When their statist institutions don't do what we like, we crush them under the name of democracy.

Think about our current flashpoints in the ME. We are planning to support rebels in Syria under the banner of freedom while propping up a military coup of a democractically elected govt in Egypt.

I agree with your overall sentiment, but I think you'd agree that there's more to democracy than just elections. Having a majority of the vote shouldn't justify running roughshod over people. The basic rights of minorities should be protected as well.

Even the ancient Greeks knew about the dangers of a tyranny of the majority. The Islamists in Egypt have no real respect for democracy, they only saw it as a means to an end (a way to 'legitimately' get into power).

That being said, I'm in favor of letting them figure all of that out on their own without interference or military hardware from us.

 

[Attic]

The Egyptian military is pretty friendly to the USA. Why would we cut off aid to the people who like us just because they ousted the people who don't like us?

Hopefully there will soon be another series of elections, Egyptians will choose a more moderate government, and all will be well. Until then, as long as the Egyptian people are happy having the Egyptian military in power I'm ecstatic.

Valid points.

We know it was a military coup though. IMO it sets a terrible precedent to ignore the truth in order to keep doing what we want to do, provide aid. What else can we ignore in order to keep doing what we want to. It's dangerous.

The administration has been forced into difficult contortions to justify not declaring a coup d'etat, which would prompt the automatic suspension of American assistance programs under U.S. law. Washington fears that halting such funding could imperil programs that help to secure Israel's border and fight weapons smuggling into the Hamas-controlled Gaza Strip, among other things seen as critical to U.S. national security.

Full Article, but that quote is the jist.
"Obama Administration Won't Use 'Coup' For Egypt" July 25th
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=205498866

We should be able to speak honestly about what occurred and then act on it. If we can't then something can be discussed and perhaps lead to change. But what we've done in Egypt, close our eyes and ears to what happened in order to keep providing F16's so we have a grip on the area,.. it just reeks to me.

 

[DucatiMonster696]

The Egyptian military is pretty friendly to the USA. Why would we cut off aid to the people who like us just because they ousted the people who don't like us?

Hopefully there will soon be another series of elections, Egyptians will choose a more moderate government, and all will be well. Until then, as long as the Egyptian people are happy having the Egyptian military in power I'm ecstatic.

Are you sure of that? The last election in which Egyptians had a vote they did NOT choose a moderate government. In fact those who were against Morsi and the MB were in the minority. Where it not for this coup d'etat by the military Morsi would still be in power and possibly re-elected. Falling under the illusion that things have changed for the better when one side has just been removed by a military action and then prohibit from having any political voice is ignoring some well established facts about the situation. If anything this entire situation has some parallels with Iran's revolution where a Democracy was subverted by our own government only to be replaced by a pro-Western regime which would then eventually be toppled a few years later by radical Islamist forces.

 

[Jhhnn]

Gee I don't know, follow the rule of law? Was this a coup or not? Does the law state when a democractically elected govt is overthrown we suspend aid or not?

It isn't hard to understand why the ME views us in such a poor light. When their democractically elected institutions are over thrown we are right there supporting the overthrowers. When their statist institutions don't do what we like, we crush them under the name of democracy.

Think about our current flashpoints in the ME. We are planning to support rebels in Syria under the banner of freedom while propping up a military coup of a democractically elected govt in Egypt.

The rule of law has valid meaning only in the context of the consent of the governed. That consent did not exist under the Mubarak regime, who was ousted by popular demand. Morsi failed to establish such consent himself, and was also ousted by the people. The military was merely their instrument.

Morsi's election was no more valid than Jim Crow elections in heavily gerrymandered states in this country, or Saddam Hussein's continuous re-election in Iraq. None represent the democratically expressed will of the people.

Our involvement in the Syrian civil war has nothing to do with anything other than crippling the last of Israel's immediate neighbors capable of or willing to offer any significant resistance to Israel. No matter who comes out on top, they'll be incapable of challenging Israel for a very, very long time. It's why we helped to destabilize Lebanon, and why we invaded Iraq. It's why we support both the Saudi & Jordanian monarchies- they play ball.

 

[FaaR]

Gee I don't know, follow the rule of law? Was this a coup or not? Does the law state when a democractically elected govt is overthrown we suspend aid or not?

Yeah, it was most absolutely a coup. Should the US suspend aid...?

Well first, before you answer that question, you need to answer another question: what would benefit the US most right now, Egypt (one of the most populous nations in Africa, decidedly poor and filled with radicals and lots of poor, angry young men who could easily become radicalized as well), continuing to receive aid, or Egypt going without aid, sliding deeper into poverty...?

Sometimes things are not immedialtely as clear-cut as they may appear at first glance.

 

[Agent11]

Valid points.

We know it was a military coup though. IMO it sets a terrible precedent to ignore the truth in order to keep doing what we want to do, provide aid. What else can we ignore in order to keep doing what we want to. It's dangerous.




Full Article, but that quote is the jist.
"Obama Administration Won't Use 'Coup' For Egypt" July 25th
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=205498866

We should be able to speak honestly about what occurred and then act on it. If we can't then something can be discussed and perhaps lead to change. But what we've done in Egypt, close our eyes and ears to what happened in order to keep providing F16's so we have a grip on the area,.. it just reeks to me.

Eh. Same situation already happened in Pakistan years ago, only worse. Precedence is already set.

 

[stlc8tr]

Eh. Same situation already happened in Pakistan years ago, only worse. Precedence is already set.

Eh? Aid was stopped to Pakistan when Musharraf ousted Sharif in 1999. It wasn't restored until 9/11 happened and Pakistan was "convinced" to be a "vital US ally". And it still took an act of Congress to restore the aid.

 

[justoh]

Yeah, it was most absolutely a coup. Should the US suspend aid...?

Well first, before you answer that question, you need to answer another question: what would benefit the US most right now, Egypt (one of the most populous nations in Africa, decidedly poor and filled with radicals and lots of poor, angry young men who could easily become radicalized as well), continuing to receive aid, or Egypt going without aid, sliding deeper into poverty...?

Sometimes things are not immedialtely as clear-cut as they may appear at first glance.

The US has given egypt almost 80 billion since 1948. What about Detroit?

 

[EagleKeeper]

The US has given egypt almost 80 billion since 1948. What about Detroit?

80B for a uneasy peace and knowledge of Soviet weapons

vs 80B for corruption down the shitter.

I will take the former

 

[justoh]

80B for a uneasy peace and knowledge of Soviet weapons

vs 80B for corruption down the shitter.

I will take the former

What if the US was only currently giving 1.5billion or whatever of a total 13+, how much influence would you expect? 10%?

 

[Nintendesert]

The US has given egypt almost 80 billion since 1948. What about Detroit?

HuffPo says 80 billion since 2009.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/13/us-auto-bailout-treasury_n_1773811.html

Since the $80 billion bailout of the auto industry, Detroit's big automakers have moved from crisis to profit. GM and Chrysler were put through government-funded bankruptcies that slashed costs and debt.

 

[Theb]

Morsi was just incapable of handling Egypt's affairs. The reasons are immaterial. They're in a revolutionary period, fer chrissakes, so the need for solid action is quite pressing.

Aid? No matter how it works out, Aid now is extremely valuable to our present & potential future friends in Egypt, to the Egyptian people. Friends help friends when they need it.

We've had an entirely decent relationship for a long time, particularly between the Militaries, and there's no point in throwing that away.

Gee I don't know, follow the rule of law? Was this a coup or not? Does the law state when a democractically elected govt is overthrown we suspend aid or not?

It isn't hard to understand why the ME views us in such a poor light. When their democractically elected institutions are over thrown we are right there supporting the overthrowers. When their statist institutions don't do what we like, we crush them under the name of democracy.

Think about our current flashpoints in the ME. We are planning to support rebels in Syria under the banner of freedom while propping up a military coup of a democractically elected govt in Egypt.

I agree with both of these positions which is why I'm glad I'm not making the decision.

If it was my decision I would probably continue aid, but I probably wouldn't like myself for it.