Ahmadinijad addresses UN declares he will ignore US

[maluckey]

PC surgeon,

The following attacks are the works of Hezbolla (funded, supported and trained by Iran). All are attacks DIRECTLY against the U.S.

-April 1983 suicide bombing of the U.S. Embassy, Beirut

-October 1983 suicide bombings of U.S. Marine and French Army barracks, Beirut.

-September 1984 suicide bombing of the U.S. Embassy annex, East Beirut.

-Khobar Tower Bombing in 1996

There are more...............

Lemon Law....Quds force are still operating in Northern Iraq, and my guess is they aren't selling AMWAY.

Here's just one of many

Mohsen Chizari, the third highest ranking Quds force was arrested, despite possessing a Diplomatic Passport for weapons trafficking. Inventories and delivery documents for weapons were found in his quarters in the SCIRI compound where he was staying.

Of course the Quds DON'T answer directly to Ahmadiniwhatever.

 

[StageLeft]

I don't blame him. Iran needs nuclear weapons badly as a way to fend off the imperalism--er, I mean anti-terrorism strategy of Bush et al.

 

[Moonbeam]

If it's war they want it's war they'll get.

Everybody on the planet already hates Bush so what does he have to lose.

It's a glorious beginning to the New American Century.

 

[imported_Tango]

Originally posted by: Skoorb
I don't blame him. Iran needs nuclear weapons badly as a way to fend off the imperalism--er, I mean anti-terrorism strategy of Bush et al.

I don't know if Iran needs nuclear weapon, but one thing is for sure: Iran needs nuclear energy and they need it fast. And plenty of it.

Their energy outlook for the next 20 years is extremely simply requires nuclear energy. There's no way they can do without.

I really don't know if they want weapons too. But most people here never had a look at what the demographics of Iran are, and how their energy production is shrinking. If they don't get nuclear energy in 10 years their whole economy is screwed.

Under these circumstances I found it natural that one country fight for what (by the way) they have right to. What should they do? Shut down factories because somebody in the other side of the world is scared?

 

[NoStateofMind]

Originally posted by: maluckey
PC surgeon,

The following attacks are the works of Hezbolla (funded, supported and trained by Iran). All are attacks DIRECTLY against the U.S.

-April 1983 suicide bombing of the U.S. Embassy, Beirut

-October 1983 suicide bombings of U.S. Marine and French Army barracks, Beirut.

-September 1984 suicide bombing of the U.S. Embassy annex, East Beirut.

-Khobar Tower Bombing in 1996

There are more...............

Lemon Law....Quds force are still operating in Northern Iraq, and my guess is they aren't selling AMWAY.

Here's just one of many

Mohsen Chizari, the third highest ranking Quds force was arrested, despite possessing a Diplomatic Passport for weapons trafficking. Inventories and delivery documents for weapons were found in his quarters in the SCIRI compound where he was staying.

Of course the Quds DON'T answer directly to Ahmadiniwhatever.

This is indirectly attacking the U.S., no more so than the U.S. indirectly attacked Iran. Again, foreign policy is the reason. They are trying to protect their right to sovereignty as we would do the same. Enforcing our ideology on other nations is aggressive at the least and tyrannical at most. Neither the former nor the latter promote freedom as we so loudly thump our chests about.

Does another sovereign nation deserve the same right as we do?

 

[NoStateofMind]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
If it's war they want it's war they'll get.

Maybe its not them who wants war. Bush has been recorded as saying he will deal with Iran "before" he leaves office. If thats not premeditated murder/war then I don't know what is.

Everybody on the planet already hates Bush so what does he have to lose.

Why do they hate bush? This is a question you must ask. Is it the "attack first ask questions later" foreign policy? A "with us or against us" attitude?

It's a glorious beginning to the New American Century.

War is never glorious. The ramifications of foreign occupation and our tyrannical foreign policy has yet to show anything "glorious".

My comments are bolded.

 

[Vonkhan]

Illegal nuclear program??? who the f are you to tell a sovereign country that?

 

[Lemon law]

My guess is that Iran's proxy involvement in the various Iraqi insurgencies are minimal at best. Iran could easily flood Iraq would fairly technically advanced weaponry and make the US occupation totally untenable in a matter of weeks. Since that is so not happening, we can safely assume Iran is acting with restraint. Compared to what the US is doing in arming various Kurdish factions against both Turkey and Iran, I don't even think Iran is even a far distant second.

But going back to a previous position, if there ends up being a war, motivations can be manufactured and the nuclear program hands Cheney that reason. Its no secret that Cheney wants to take out the government of Iran and this can hand the neocon war hawks the sales kit for selling this war to a no longer gullible American public. I have little doubt Cheney would do it for Halliburton if nothing else, but has thus far been stymied by a lack of a sales kit. And if Cheney can convince GWB, he may well bomb Iran and
worry later. And domestically, may not even consult the congress before bombing.

So I am hoping that someone in the international community has the clout to throw in the monkey wrenches to stop this all too possible stupidity.

And here this thread is still stuck on justifications.

 

[Jaskalas]

Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider
Iran has no intention of listening to anyone, and never did. They'll do as they please, and the UN will make loud noises, which is about all that it can do anyway.

This is accurate.

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Iran might find out that sometimes the best course of action is to "let the wookie win".

I wish it were so simple. Yet Iraq has proven our weakness, we are no wookie. It may have proven we make good on threats but it has turned into a ripe embarrassment instead of an example of strength. At this point we are considered impotent especially when half or more of our population supports our pacification and the free establishment of a nuclear Middle East.

 

[imported_Shivetya]

Face reality.

Europe is scared of Iran gain a nuclear weapon. However politics does not permit them to align themselves with Bush too closely on this issue. Some of it comes from the view, right in my mind, that doing might give Bush's people a feeling of permission to act on it.

Honestly, I am betting many European leaders hopes that Iran provokes Israel enough for Israel to do something. This way the problem gets solved, Jews can get blamed for making a mess, and oil goes on unthreatened for a few more years.

 

[Jaskalas]

Originally posted by: Shivetya
Face reality.

Europe is scared of Iran gain a nuclear weapon.

No no no, we're constantly told its Bush and neo-con fear/war mongering making the American people fear such things. You know the Iranaphobes, Islamaphobes, and Xenophobes. There's nothing to fear but our evil empire! We need to impress this upon the Europeans that WE are their enemy and Iran is our mutual friend!

 

[Lemon law]

Taking out Iran is way beyond the capacity of Israel. Iran has learned the lessons and has buried its nuclear sites so deeply that there is doubt even the best conventional explosive bunker busters in the American inventory could even dent them. On top of that, Israel lacks the long range bombers to carry the weight they entail. At best, Israel can manage a few pin point strikes and is at the extreme range of its planes at that. On top of that, Israel must overfly Iraq and that the US can't permit unless it joins the war.

Even if the US tries to do the job, it must kill and not just wound Iran. Failing that kill the Persian Gulf would be blocked and can you say instant world wide depression.

The problem is our over optimistic leaders who would try and fail which is why I am so worried.

Actually Iran has been willing to negotiate on supervising its nuclear program and GWB has always spurned anything that could result in any Iranian nuclear program. Peaceful or not.

Now Iran has lost patience and has put the fat in the fire. I certainly hope its diplomacy because, unlike Iraq, any Iranian war can cost the entire world very fast.

 

[Jhhnn]

Here's hoping that the Iranians can resolve their differences with the IAEA, do what they claim to be doing under supervision of that capable body. Sanctions wouldn't stand a prayer, and all this warmongering would be cut off at the knees...

Yes, I could understand US and European concern if the Iranians could be shown to actually be working on weapons- enriching uranium to weapons grade, extracting and enriching plutonium from fuel rods in quantities suitable for the purpose, denying inspectors meaningful access to production facilities...

Show me evidence of that and I'll share the concerns currently expressed by people who have motives other than preventing Iranian nukes...

Right now, any military action is just another rightwing solution in search of a problem, and would be a greater problem than if the Iranians really did have nukes...

Part of the problem has been that El Baradei has been using his position as head of the IAEA to attempt an agenda that's not really in his job description- preventing the proliferation of enrichment technology, rather than the proliferation of weapons, which is contrary to the basis of the NPT. Lately, however, it seems as if he's come to his senses, and is willing to accept enrichment under strict controls vs the alternative, which is war...

 

[maluckey]

This is indirectly attacking the U.S

PC Surgeon

In each attack listed U.S. citizens were killed. That's a direct attack.......

Lemon Law,

While I agree with you that the Iranians are acting with some self-restraint with the weapons smuggling, I feel you're a little off-base with the U.S. arming the Kurds against Turkey and Iran. U.S. has bases in Turkey, supports their government, and even encouraged the Kurds to allow Turkey to pursue terrorists for short distances within Kurdish territories in Iraq.

As far as the U.S. weapons...It's reported in the press, that in July, the U.S. Department of Defense briefed Congress on a new plan to have U.S. Special Forces members assist Turkish forces in operations against the PKK.

Also in July, U.S. officials, including William J. Haynes, General Counsel, U.S. Dept. of Defense met with members of the Turkish Govt. The subject was the Dept. of Defense investigation into the arms supossedly sold to PKK and the Kurds by U.S. troops.

Shortly after this, an FBI International Operations delegation met in Ankara to investigate the same matter. Their involvement suggests that instead of U.S. Governmental involvement, it's more likely a criminal action involving individual selling the weapons. The motivations are clear...large sums of money. An M16 sells for at last three times what an AK costs.

 

[NoStateofMind]

Originally posted by: maluckey

This is indirectly attacking the U.S

PC Surgeon

In each attack listed U.S. citizens were killed. That's a direct attack.......

No, I'm sorry you miss the point I was trying to make. Hezbola attacked the U.S. not Iran directly. Iran may have funded it, but did not do the act of it. We funded and armed saddam against Iran, we didn't directly attack Iran, but indirectly attacked Iran. Do you see what I'm pointing out?

 

[maluckey]

PC Surgeon,

Iran founded, directs, trains and funds a group that kills. They are directly responsible.

In the Manifesto of Hezbolla, it says that the Ayatollah Khomeini (Supreme Leader of Iran)as whose "orders we obey;" It also states that Sharia Law is the Only acceptable law, and also within the manifesto declares that destruction of Israel is a goal.

The Lebanese do not call Hezbolla their own, and call them "a resistance" instead of a militia. They blame Hezbollas presence on the Israelis remaining in disputed land within Lebanon.

In all countries that I have EVER seen, if you give a gun to someone, teach them how to use it, buy them a plane ticket and tell them to kill your wife, and they do it...you go to jail for murder.

 

[Jhhnn]

Bah. The Bushites are arming everybody in the region, other than the syrians and iranians, handing out small arms and ammo the way they should have handed out condoms in africa.

Then sit back clutching their pearls as waves of violence erupt, engulfing everybody but their israeli pals... who get the biggest and baddest weaponry of all... It's a strategy of balkanization, divide and conquer, keep potential rivals at each other's throats so as to keep them weak...

The Reaganites armed, fed, trained and inspired the mujahedin to kill soviets in afghanistan for 10 years, even providing them with stinger missiles in advance of many of our own units, but that was, of course, different, somehow, than alleged iranian meddling in the current situation...

What did we expect? Invade two bordering countries, plunge them into chaos, hold our might on Iranian borders screaming for regime change, think that the iranians would just meekly roll over?

They'e actually shown remarkable restraint thus far, all things considered...

Apparently they'd rather not plunge the globe into an economic depression deeper than the one already looming from our own failed economic and fiscal policy...

Rave as they might against govt spending and waste, our own rightwing somehow fails to see war as the most wasteful spending possible...

 

[maluckey]

Bah. The Iranians are arming everybody in the region, including the syrians and enlarging the Iranian army, handing out small arms and ammo the way they should have handed out condoms in africa.

Then sit back clutching their pearls as waves of violence erupt, engulfing everybody excluding their israeli pals... for whom is reserved the biggest and baddest weaponry of all... It's a strategy of balkanization, divide and conquer, keep potential rivals at each other's throats so as to keep them weak...

The Iranians armed, fed, trained and inspired the Hazara to kill soviets in afghanistan for 10 years, even providing them with money and training, but that was, of course, different, somehow, than alleged United Stases meddling in the current situation...

What did they expect? Invade two bordering countries, plunge them into chaos, hold their might on Iranian borders screaming for regime change, think that the CF would just meekly roll over?

They'e actually shown remarkable restraint thus far, all things considered...

Apparently they'd rather not plunge the country into an economic depression deeper than the one already looming from their own failed economic and fiscal policy...

Rave as they might against govt spending and waste, their own rightwing somehow fails to see war as the most wasteful spending possible...

You see how easy to look at it the other way?

 

[eleison]

We should invade Iran before they get nuclear weapons and start to rape Israeli women and kill homosexual gay Jews. According to the bible, it is written that all non-Christians must convert, or they can be killed.

So yea, we need to invade. If not for saving Israeli women, but so the Iranians would stop sending weapons into Iraq. Not to mention, Iran's president is an f'ing douche. Thats is all. Also, thank you all for allowing me into this Iran/Iraq circle jerk!! oh yea, down with BUsh, up with Hilary!!!

 

[maluckey]

eleison,

You soooo understand the forums here:thumbsup:

Without the laughs that I get from reading some of this, my days would be as worthless as fly-sweat.

Before I forget....., down with the U.S! Down with Rich people! and ummmhhhh Bad People suck! and all that other stuff....

 

[Moonbeam]

If it's war they want it's war they'll get.

Maybe its not them who wants war. Bush has been recorded as saying he will deal with Iran "before" he leaves office. If thats not premeditated murder/war then I don't know what is.

Read my quote with a Bush accent

Everybody on the planet already hates Bush so what does he have to lose.

Why do they hate bush? This is a question you must ask. Is it the "attack first ask questions later" foreign policy? A "with us or against us" attitude?

Yes, I know, but he still has nothing to lose.

It's a glorious beginning to the New American Century.

War is never glorious. The ramifications of foreign occupation and our tyrannical foreign policy has yet to show anything "glorious".

You just don't have that good old Neocon insanity fueling your enthusiasm.

 

[The Green Bean]

Originally posted by: Aimster
You forget if the U.S lifts sanctions on Iran (meaning friendly terms) Iran would become the largest economic powerhouse in the M.E. It would be the largest and most powerful Islamic nation in the M.E.

You really want a powerful Islamic nation? The West doesn't. Keep Iran as weak as you can.

Edit: I meant world.

China won't want war and India certainly won't. They are discussing the last few details on a muti-billion euro gas pipeline through Pakistan Even America's ally, Kuwait has refused to let them use their base for a possible attack.

Can America even defeat the Iranian army with the position it is in currently? Iran says it can recruit 20million in 48hrs. And with the dire position America faces in Afghanistan and Iraq and it's debt it's highl unlikely they can topple Iran's regime. I'm certain that my country will be providing moral support to Iran and condeming US actions. And what abour Iraq? Will the US be able to contain 20million hostile shiahs including moqtada? Hezbollah might attack Israel and it's going to cause havoc. And the worst that can happen is that moderate muslims may be convinced that this is a war against Islam. Then there would be no stopping the terrorists. The US may lose a few of its cities to terrorist dirty bombs.

Iran is still the largest econmic powerhouse in the M.E. It's only going to get richer after the economic boom the region has been seing.

Personally, I feel that the OIC countries should declare that an attack against Iran will be considered an act of war against all. That should put the sense back into America.

 

[maluckey]

Green Bean,

What in hell are you smoking!? First off, Iraq was the Army that was holding territory and the superior numbers of Iranian forces at bay for eight years. The U.S. kicked the ass of the people that held the Iranian superior numbers at bay for eight years...in two weeks...

In any open confrontation with the U.S., both Iran AND your beloved coffee finca would be irrelevant when the dust settled.

 

[Lemon law]

maluckey, what have you been smoking, the days when Iran could be kicked around by Iraq ended when they learned their lessons. Now Iran is an arsenal for self defense
and they have a home ground industries quite able to make technologically modern weapons. Israel got a taste of what those weapons could do to state of the arts tanks last summer.

Times change, evidently your mind does not keep up with the times. Ahmadinijad may be a motor mouth idiot, that does not everyone else in Iran is. Iran has made sure that next time anyone tries to invade, they will have something to counter them with.

 

[maluckey]

Lemon Law

A quick internet search if you really cared would educate you on military power and equipment. The Russians don't sell the best tanks to foreigners. They keep them for themselves. They also sell junk that they feel isn't a threat to themselves, as well as failed systems that they couldn't get to work, like exploding missiles for the Navy.

BTW ... Syrias AA batteries (supplied by Russia) were shut down last week during the Israeli raid by superior EW tech (U.S.). Iranian junk won't stand a chance.

Iranian ground troops need to make it to the location to be of any use. Air dominance prevents that (F-15 has not been defeated in air combat.....ever), until the F-22 and the Su27 derivatives, it was the best all-around fighter available, The Iranians have about 60 MiG 29 in inventory, which are roughly equivalent to the F-15 according to U.S. and German pilots that have flown them, and/or shot them down. Their EW potential is 20 years behind.

The Iranian tanks are the armored equivalent of a Yugo. The Zulfiqar MBT is a T-72 hybrid....nuff said. They also have the T-72Z (Safir-74) which is based on a Chinese tank copied from a Russian Tank first seen in 1954!

So, as you were saying er NARMER Law.