Ahh, gotta love those paper certs

[LuckyTaxi]

So i wanted to get a feel for what was out there and decided to send my resume to an ad I found online. I have roughly 8 yrs experience with network stuff, mainly windows and linux and 3+ yrs with PHP/mysql programming. Don't get me wrong I'm happy where I'm at but I always have my eyes open for other opportunities.

So this person writes back and asks me if I had my MCSE. Now, in the ad it did state "MCSE required ... 4+ yrs experience...blah blah" So I wrote back and said no and I have no plans of getting it but I'm sure by now I've seen it all with Active Directory and I can troubleshoot a PC w/o have to resort to my "Windows XP for Dummies" book (kidding I dont have one). The guy writes back and says "sorry, but we're only looking for candidates with MCSE." Haha, so I wrote back and said "ok, I'm sure you'll find tons of them at ITT Technical, why dont you hit up their career services"

ahh, gotta love employers who care more about a stupid cert than real life experiences.

 

[NanoStuff]

Considering the vast selection out there, it's really not worth so much as looking at offers that have defective certification requirements.

 

[dougp]

Originally posted by: LuckyTaxi
So i wanted to get a feel for what was out there and decided to send my resume to an ad I found online. I have roughly 8 yrs experience with network stuff, mainly windows and linux and 3+ yrs with PHP/mysql programming. Don't get me wrong I'm happy where I'm at but I always have my eyes open for other opportunities.

So this person writes back and asks me if I had my MCSE. Now, in the ad it did state "MCSE required ... 4+ yrs experience...blah blah" So I wrote back and said no and I have no plans of getting it but I'm sure by now I've seen it all with Active Directory and I can troubleshoot a PC w/o have to resort to my "Windows XP for Dummies" book (kidding I dont have one). The guy writes back and says "sorry, but we're only looking for candidates with MCSE." Haha, so I wrote back and said "ok, I'm sure you'll find tons of them at ITT Technical, why dont you hit up their career services"

ahh, gotta love employers who care more about a stupid cert than real life experiences.

If that's what you wrote, I'm pretty sure your lack of MCSE isn't what denied you the interview at the least.

Did you see that one thread about IT people who are condescending?

 

[Rudee]

Originally posted by: dreadpiratedoug

Originally posted by: LuckyTaxi
So i wanted to get a feel for what was out there and decided to send my resume to an ad I found online. I have roughly 8 yrs experience with network stuff, mainly windows and linux and 3+ yrs with PHP/mysql programming. Don't get me wrong I'm happy where I'm at but I always have my eyes open for other opportunities.

So this person writes back and asks me if I had my MCSE. Now, in the ad it did state "MCSE required ... 4+ yrs experience...blah blah" So I wrote back and said no and I have no plans of getting it but I'm sure by now I've seen it all with Active Directory and I can troubleshoot a PC w/o have to resort to my "Windows XP for Dummies" book (kidding I dont have one). The guy writes back and says "sorry, but we're only looking for candidates with MCSE." Haha, so I wrote back and said "ok, I'm sure you'll find tons of them at ITT Technical, why dont you hit up their career services"

ahh, gotta love employers who care more about a stupid cert than real life experiences.

If that's what you wrote, I'm pretty sure your lack of MCSE isn't what denied you the interview at the least.

Did you see that one thread about IT people who are condescending?

Gotta agree with you on that one.

 

[altonb1]

Originally posted by: dreadpiratedoug

Originally posted by: LuckyTaxi
So i wanted to get a feel for what was out there and decided to send my resume to an ad I found online. I have roughly 8 yrs experience with network stuff, mainly windows and linux and 3+ yrs with PHP/mysql programming. Don't get me wrong I'm happy where I'm at but I always have my eyes open for other opportunities.

So this person writes back and asks me if I had my MCSE. Now, in the ad it did state "MCSE required ... 4+ yrs experience...blah blah" So I wrote back and said no and I have no plans of getting it but I'm sure by now I've seen it all with Active Directory and I can troubleshoot a PC w/o have to resort to my "Windows XP for Dummies" book (kidding I dont have one). The guy writes back and says "sorry, but we're only looking for candidates with MCSE." Haha, so I wrote back and said "ok, I'm sure you'll find tons of them at ITT Technical, why dont you hit up their career services"

ahh, gotta love employers who care more about a stupid cert than real life experiences.

If that's what you wrote, I'm pretty sure your lack of MCSE isn't what denied you the interview at the least.

Did you see that one thread about IT people who are condescending?

It appears he had already missed out on the interview by not having the cert in the first place.

 

[Goosemaster]

Originally posted by: Rudee

Originally posted by: dreadpiratedoug

Originally posted by: LuckyTaxi
So i wanted to get a feel for what was out there and decided to send my resume to an ad I found online. I have roughly 8 yrs experience with network stuff, mainly windows and linux and 3+ yrs with PHP/mysql programming. Don't get me wrong I'm happy where I'm at but I always have my eyes open for other opportunities.

So this person writes back and asks me if I had my MCSE. Now, in the ad it did state "MCSE required ... 4+ yrs experience...blah blah" So I wrote back and said no and I have no plans of getting it but I'm sure by now I've seen it all with Active Directory and I can troubleshoot a PC w/o have to resort to my "Windows XP for Dummies" book (kidding I dont have one). The guy writes back and says "sorry, but we're only looking for candidates with MCSE." Haha, so I wrote back and said "ok, I'm sure you'll find tons of them at ITT Technical, why dont you hit up their career services"

ahh, gotta love employers who care more about a stupid cert than real life experiences.

If that's what you wrote, I'm pretty sure your lack of MCSE isn't what denied you the interview at the least.

Did you see that one thread about IT people who are condescending?

Gotta agree with you on that one.

That said, the folks at HR ain't always right

 

[LuckyTaxi]

no no i didnt write that. i meant to cut my sentence off with a period but didnt. i just wrote back and said "No i do not have my MCSE, and I have no plans of obtaining one. However, I would like to think that my 8 hrs of experience would speak for itself ... blah blah"

I was out of the running as soon as I told him I had no MCSE. But I did tell him to go to ITT Technical ... lol

 

[dougp]

Originally posted by: altonb1

Originally posted by: dreadpiratedoug

Originally posted by: LuckyTaxi
So i wanted to get a feel for what was out there and decided to send my resume to an ad I found online. I have roughly 8 yrs experience with network stuff, mainly windows and linux and 3+ yrs with PHP/mysql programming. Don't get me wrong I'm happy where I'm at but I always have my eyes open for other opportunities.

So this person writes back and asks me if I had my MCSE. Now, in the ad it did state "MCSE required ... 4+ yrs experience...blah blah" So I wrote back and said no and I have no plans of getting it but I'm sure by now I've seen it all with Active Directory and I can troubleshoot a PC w/o have to resort to my "Windows XP for Dummies" book (kidding I dont have one). The guy writes back and says "sorry, but we're only looking for candidates with MCSE." Haha, so I wrote back and said "ok, I'm sure you'll find tons of them at ITT Technical, why dont you hit up their career services"

ahh, gotta love employers who care more about a stupid cert than real life experiences.

If that's what you wrote, I'm pretty sure your lack of MCSE isn't what denied you the interview at the least.

Did you see that one thread about IT people who are condescending?

It appears he had already missed out on the interview by not having the cert in the first place.

I've been in several interviews in which I don't completely qualify, MCSE being the dis qualifier in a few of them - but I still got in there by convincing them it wasn't needed. Never say never!

And Goose, you're right - but a lot of times hiring managers give the requirements to the HR guys, and they can't "translate" it to layman's terms.

 

[episodic]

back when I did computer stuff for a living, I once had an interview where you had to assemble two computers (the harddrives already had the OS on them), make one a domain controller, join the second to the domain, along with wiring it (you had to use the crimp tool to make the correct ends for the cables). Everything was neatly laid out on the table and you had an hour. That was a cool interview.

 

[LuckyTaxi]

Originally posted by: episodic
back when I did computer stuff for a living, I once had an interview where you had to assemble two computers, make one a domain controller, join the second to the domain, along with wiring it (you had to use the crimp tool to make the correct ends for the cables). Everything was neatly laid out on the table and you had an hour. That was a cool interview.

yea, i dont mind these types of interviews. challenge me in the interview, but dont put me out of the running because I lack a cert. Mind you, these companies probably end up hiring someone who has no real world experience but passed the certs with flying colors. Then when a server is blows up, let's see how calm they are now.

 

[Goosemaster]

Originally posted by: episodic
back when I did computer stuff for a living, I once had an interview where you had to assemble two computers (the harddrives already had the OS on them), make one a domain controller, join the second to the domain, along with wiring it (you had to use the crimp tool to make the correct ends for the cables). Everything was neatly laid out on the table and you had an hour. That was a cool interview.

sounds like fun actually

 

[OdiN]

Originally posted by: Goosemaster

Originally posted by: episodic
back when I did computer stuff for a living, I once had an interview where you had to assemble two computers (the harddrives already had the OS on them), make one a domain controller, join the second to the domain, along with wiring it (you had to use the crimp tool to make the correct ends for the cables). Everything was neatly laid out on the table and you had an hour. That was a cool interview.

sounds like fun actually

White Orange, Orange, White Green, Blue, White Blue, Green, White Brown, Brown

God I hate messing with cables. That's work for other people to do, not me

 

[oogabooga]

Originally posted by: LuckyTaxi

Originally posted by: episodic
back when I did computer stuff for a living, I once had an interview where you had to assemble two computers, make one a domain controller, join the second to the domain, along with wiring it (you had to use the crimp tool to make the correct ends for the cables). Everything was neatly laid out on the table and you had an hour. That was a cool interview.

yea, i dont mind these types of interviews. challenge me in the interview, but dont put me out of the running because I lack a cert. Mind you, these companies probably end up hiring someone who has no real world experience but passed the certs with flying colors. Then when a server is blows up, let's see how calm they are now.

From a hiring standpoint at least you know the person with the cert is technically certified. The person with the cert you don't have even that.

I'm sure the company was impressed when you said you don't meet a certain requirement and have plans on ever meeting it.

And assuming you're not in the wrong here, if the company is that set on only interviewing people with certs do you want to work IT for them?

edit: I also wanted to add that Episodic, that sounds like a really cool interview and a company hiring talent as opposed to impressive paper.

 

[alkemyst]

Well it's interesting. However; much of the people we get (I don't have my MSCE or any certs yet) will have a resume full of 'they have done it all' for 5+ years, yet no jobs listed/employers that would dictate those skills. This is esp. true with web developers; it seems EVERYONE is one.

I am working on Cisco certs now as when I make my next jump I am sure certs will come up.

What I find alarming though is some of my MCSE buddies have been turned down because they didn't have A+/Net+ also.

Unfortunately the way much hiring works today is before you get a shot at the guy that can tell whether you can do or not do a job, you have to go through a corporate bean counter type that knows nothing except checking boxes on a checklist.

 

[xSauronx]

Originally posted by: OdiN

Originally posted by: Goosemaster

Originally posted by: episodic
back when I did computer stuff for a living, I once had an interview where you had to assemble two computers (the harddrives already had the OS on them), make one a domain controller, join the second to the domain, along with wiring it (you had to use the crimp tool to make the correct ends for the cables). Everything was neatly laid out on the table and you had an hour. That was a cool interview.

sounds like fun actually

White Orange, Orange, White Green, Blue, White Blue, Green, White Brown, Brown

God I hate messing with cables. That's work for other people to do, not me

its work for factories to do, for the most part, unless you have custom runs to deal with. i wired an office and crimped/punched 100 lines, i dont miss it.

 

[invidia]

Originally posted by: alkemyst

Well it's interesting. However; much of the people we get (I don't have my MSCE or any certs yet) will have a resume full of 'they have done it all' for 5+ years, yet no jobs listed/employers that would dictate those skills. This is esp. true with web developers; it seems EVERYONE is one.

I am working on Cisco certs now as when I make my next jump I am sure certs will come up.

What I find alarming though is some of my MCSE buddies have been turned down because they didn't have A+/Net+ also.

Unfortunately the way much hiring works today is before you get a shot at the guy that can tell whether you can do or not do a job, you have to go through a corporate bean counter type that knows nothing except checking boxes on a checklist.

Web developing is usually a hobby. But I do agree you should have some real work experience to back it up. Sometimes you'll be surprised how much a independent/freelance web developer or programmer knows.

 

[glugglug]

To top this off MCSE is the most well known, commonly obtained MS cert because it is fairly easy/meaningless.
I would consider someone listing MCSE on their resume to be a NEGATIVE in fact, because someone who knows what they were doing would have better things to deal with.

MCSD requires much more actual skill, and would make more sense for places to seek, but I've NEVER seen it listed as a requirement.

 

[JEDI]

Originally posted by: LuckyTaxi
So i wanted to get a feel for what was out there and decided to send my resume to an ad I found online. I have roughly 8 yrs experience with network stuff, mainly windows and linux and 3+ yrs with PHP/mysql programming. Don't get me wrong I'm happy where I'm at but I always have my eyes open for other opportunities.

So this person writes back and asks me if I had my MCSE. Now, in the ad it did state "MCSE required ... 4+ yrs experience...blah blah" So I wrote back and said no and I have no plans of getting it but I'm sure by now I've seen it all with Active Directory and I can troubleshoot a PC w/o have to resort to my "Windows XP for Dummies" book (kidding I dont have one). The guy writes back and says "sorry, but we're only looking for candidates with MCSE." Haha, so I wrote back and said "ok, I'm sure you'll find tons of them at ITT Technical, why dont you hit up their career services"

ahh, gotta love employers who care more about a stupid cert than real life experiences.

thats what the higher ups want to see... the certs. it makes them feel better.

i was a prj mgr in a network engineering dept. i had no IT certs. one day someone from above my boss mentioned i should have a cert for this position to understand what's going on. never mind i've been doing the job fine w/o one.

so i bought a ccna book and set up a router lab at work. passed the test a week later. i framed the cert and put it on my wall.

didnt help me one bit in doing my job better, but the higher up was happy.

and thats all that matters cause in real life, happy upper mgmt = easier life for you

 

[OdiN]

Originally posted by: glugglug
To top this off MCSE is the most well known, commonly obtained MS cert because it is fairly easy/meaningless.
I would consider someone listing MCSE on their resume to be a NEGATIVE in fact, because someone who knows what they were doing would have better things to deal with.

MCSD requires much more actual skill, and would make more sense for places to seek, but I've NEVER seen it listed as a requirement.

You're comparing two completely different things.

MCSE is about hardware and software - managing a network and servers, etc.

MCSD is for software developers....completely different.

 

[Parasitic]

Originally posted by: glugglug
To top this off MCSE is the most well known, commonly obtained MS cert because it is fairly easy/meaningless.
I would consider someone listing MCSE on their resume to be a NEGATIVE in fact, because someone who knows what they were doing would have better things to deal with.

MCSD requires much more actual skill, and would make more sense for places to seek, but I've NEVER seen it listed as a requirement.

What's MCSD?

And do these jobs also require a BS degree?

 

[MixMasterTang]

Originally posted by: glugglug
To top this off MCSE is the most well known, commonly obtained MS cert because it is fairly easy/meaningless.
I would consider someone listing MCSE on their resume to be a NEGATIVE in fact, because someone who knows what they were doing would have better things to deal with.

MCSD requires much more actual skill, and would make more sense for places to seek, but I've NEVER seen it listed as a requirement.

As meaningless as you may view the MCSE there is a need for in in the consulting field. For one to be a "Microsoft Gold" partner, or whatever, an employer must have a certain number of people with certain certifications on staff. Also a lot of contracts for service with consulting companies state that the work will be performed by a certified engineer.

So you're saying that if an engineer has an extensive consulting background that they should be viewed negatively because they have certain certifications?

 

[KLin]

Originally posted by: Parasitic

Originally posted by: glugglug
To top this off MCSE is the most well known, commonly obtained MS cert because it is fairly easy/meaningless.
I would consider someone listing MCSE on their resume to be a NEGATIVE in fact, because someone who knows what they were doing would have better things to deal with.

MCSD requires much more actual skill, and would make more sense for places to seek, but I've NEVER seen it listed as a requirement.

What's MCSD?

And do these jobs also require a BS degree?

Microsoft Certified Software Developer.

 

[OdiN]

Originally posted by: KLin

Originally posted by: Parasitic

Originally posted by: glugglug
To top this off MCSE is the most well known, commonly obtained MS cert because it is fairly easy/meaningless.
I would consider someone listing MCSE on their resume to be a NEGATIVE in fact, because someone who knows what they were doing would have better things to deal with.

MCSD requires much more actual skill, and would make more sense for places to seek, but I've NEVER seen it listed as a requirement.

What's MCSD?

And do these jobs also require a BS degree?

Microsoft Certified Software Developer.

Microsoft Certified Solution Developer actually

 

[episodic]

Originally posted by: xSauronx

Originally posted by: OdiN

Originally posted by: Goosemaster

Originally posted by: episodic
back when I did computer stuff for a living, I once had an interview where you had to assemble two computers (the harddrives already had the OS on them), make one a domain controller, join the second to the domain, along with wiring it (you had to use the crimp tool to make the correct ends for the cables). Everything was neatly laid out on the table and you had an hour. That was a cool interview.

sounds like fun actually

White Orange, Orange, White Green, Blue, White Blue, Green, White Brown, Brown

God I hate messing with cables. That's work for other people to do, not me

its work for factories to do, for the most part, unless you have custom runs to deal with. i wired an office and crimped/punched 100 lines, i dont miss it.

Nothing like being somewhere at a remote site and needing a rollover cable. Need to know how to make one real quick.

 

[OdiN]

Originally posted by: episodic

Originally posted by: xSauronx

Originally posted by: OdiN

Originally posted by: Goosemaster

Originally posted by: episodic
back when I did computer stuff for a living, I once had an interview where you had to assemble two computers (the harddrives already had the OS on them), make one a domain controller, join the second to the domain, along with wiring it (you had to use the crimp tool to make the correct ends for the cables). Everything was neatly laid out on the table and you had an hour. That was a cool interview.

sounds like fun actually

White Orange, Orange, White Green, Blue, White Blue, Green, White Brown, Brown

God I hate messing with cables. That's work for other people to do, not me

its work for factories to do, for the most part, unless you have custom runs to deal with. i wired an office and crimped/punched 100 lines, i dont miss it.

Nothing like being somewhere at a remote site and needing a rollover cable. Need to know how to make one real quick.

When I used to do on-site stuff, a rollover cable was always included in my kit. Hell I have a drywall saw in my kit