Agree or disagree: "There is no future (at least that's "well paying") in the day to day IT grind"

[TreyRandom]

Disagree. I'm living proof.

 

[IceBergSLiM]

Originally posted by: jbourne77

Originally posted by: IcebergSlim

Originally posted by: jbourne77

Originally posted by: IcebergSlim

Originally posted by: jbourne77

Originally posted by: IcebergSlim

Originally posted by: acemcmac

Originally posted by: Vic

"There is no future (at least that's "well paying") in the day to day IT grind"

IT grinders are the white collar equivalent of auto mechanics.

That is going to stick with me. What a great analogy :thumbsup:

exactly......you dont need a degree to do it and any HS drop out could do the job with a little bit of training and on the job experience.

Shut up, ass. Most IT people started at the position, regardless of their experience. It's often the only way to get your foot in the door. No one is a lesser person for taking that route; it's often the only one available. It's up to the person, however, to motivate themselves beyond that point.

i guess it depends geographically. here it would look good as an internship but certainly not anything i'd be content with after dropping $$$ on a 4 year degree. They only get paid like $14/hr. I'd freelance myself out before I took that for a high stress, low pay , no appreciation job like that.

I think you're missing the point. If you're talking entry level help desk, then you don't have the skills to freelance. If you're fresh out of college, in most cases, you don't have the skills to freelance.

Most people do help desk out of necessity, not because they want it. It's not a matter of not knowing better; it's a matter of not having other options in a very saturated market.

u need to think about relocating if the job market is that horrible in your area that HD is your only out........so im really gonna buy the victim of a saturated market stuff because that simply isn't the norm in this country.

Do you even work in this field or are you just speculating out your ass? I've been in it for almost 10 years and have been involved in almost every facet of it. It is VERY difficult to start in an above-entry-level position these days in IT/IS. Honestly, even getting in at held desk can be a chore. Too many people jumped on the train. This is a FACT.

dude where are you talking about. getting in at HD is incredibly easy. if you pass the initial aptitude test youre in. The turnover rate is high because its a low paying sh1tty job. I am not speculating here . If you have marketable it skills which any 4 year uni. should have provided you there is no problem getting in somewhere outisde of a HD. Especially if you took yuor undergrad work seriously and have internships on your resume. I dont know anyone I wnet to school with that works at the help desk. I think a small handful(3-5) did it for 2-3 months right after graduation just to have some income until they landed a real IT job.

 

[pontifex]

Originally posted by: trmiv

My biggest barrier to improving my skillset is lack of desire. When I started this "career" I was passionate about computers, technologies, etc. I learned all I could, and I enjoyed it. But now I'm just burned out. I know advancing in this career involves self improvement and education, but I've found it hard to do so because, I'm just not interested in it anymore. In the past reading about new technologies interested me, now it puts me to sleep. But changing careers completely can be a daunting task.

pretty much how i feel also. Working full time and then going back to class afterwards or on weekends sucks major ass, especially if you aren't interested anymore.

Right now I pretty much want a job that I can walk in, do and leave and not really have to learn much. I hate it when someone asks me a question and I have to say "I don't know" and they look at you like "but you're the computer guy, shouldn't you know? what did we hire you for?" I just hate not knowing the answer to something and it seems to be happening more and more lately.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: ultimatebob
I'm a Systems Administator, and I agree that it's a pretty dead end career path. It seems a lot easier to get promoted to a management position through Sales or Finance than it is through IT.

Wow, it's very Geographic.

Those in the North and Northeast say it's dead-end.

Those in the South and West are loving it.

Interesting.

 

[JoLLyRoGer]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: ultimatebob
I'm a Systems Administator, and I agree that it's a pretty dead end career path. It seems a lot easier to get promoted to a management position through Sales or Finance than it is through IT.

Wow, it's very Geographic.

Those in the North and Northeast say it's dead-end.

Those in the South and West are loving it.

Interesting.

Count me in. IT's treating me pretty good in AZ

 

[rudder]

Originally posted by: acemcmac
Note that I'm not talking about non-technical IT managers. I'm talking about system admins, network admins and general IT staff.

What do you guys think?

With every new generation of software/hardware, configuring IT equipment becomes much more user friendly. I work in IT and I remember our first HP SAN (HSG controller). We still have it and it is a very clunky interface to get anything done. I went to 3 weeks of schooling on it and still get nervous around it.

Our newer EVA controller based SAN is a breeze. All GUI based unlike the CLI HSG. I never let anyone see me work on it because they may realize how easy it is.

Do you honestly think in 5 or 10 years time there will even actually be a need for us to have a SAN administrator? Small business can get plug and play email servers now. IT administration is a dead end field.

 

[Stuxnet]

Originally posted by: freegeeks
meh, I disagree

I'm a network engineer (and a damn good one) and the only way to get promoted is to go into management. There is only one problem, I'm not interested in team management.

Welcome to the corporate world. That has nothing to do with IT specifically. It would be like that if you were an Accountant, Salesperson, etc.

Originally posted by: IcebergSlim
dude where are you talking about. getting in at HD is incredibly easy. if you pass the initial aptitude test youre in. The turnover rate is high because its a low paying sh1tty job. I am not speculating here . If you have marketable it skills which any 4 year uni. should have provided you there is no problem getting in somewhere outisde of a HD. Especially if you took yuor undergrad work seriously and have internships on your resume. I dont know anyone I wnet to school with that works at the help desk. I think a small handful(3-5) did it for 2-3 months right after graduation just to have some income until they landed a real IT job.

Thank you for confirming my suspicions: you have no clue what you're talking about. I work with IT/IS groups from coast to coast and have a fairly global perspective for what markets are like, and what I described is the norm. What you're describing is the rare, rare exception.

You shouldn't try to take such an authoritative stance when you haven't even spent one damn day doing what you're talking about.

 

[Stuxnet]

Originally posted by: pontifex
Right now I pretty much want a job that I can walk in, do and leave and not really have to learn much.

Do you want to get paid for this magical job?

 

[TreyRandom]

Originally posted by: JoLLyRoGer

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: ultimatebob
I'm a Systems Administator, and I agree that it's a pretty dead end career path. It seems a lot easier to get promoted to a management position through Sales or Finance than it is through IT.

Wow, it's very Geographic.

Those in the North and Northeast say it's dead-end.

Those in the South and West are loving it.

Interesting.

Count me in. IT's treating me pretty good in AZ

Agreed. I'm in TN.

 

[Billzie7718]

Originally posted by: acemcmac
"There is no future (at least that's "well paying") in the day to day IT grind. The dot-com boom is over and high paying IT jobs are getting really scarce. Nobody is making "the big bucks" anymore. Move up or get out while you still can. The days of one income households where the breadwinner is a systems admin are OVER."

Note that I'm not talking about non-technical IT managers. I'm talking about system admins, network admins and general IT staff.

What do you guys think?

Some companies suck and don't promote from within. Some do. Find a good company and you're golden.
</thread>

 

[IceBergSLiM]

Originally posted by: jbourne77

Originally posted by: freegeeks
meh, I disagree

I'm a network engineer (and a damn good one) and the only way to get promoted is to go into management. There is only one problem, I'm not interested in team management.

Welcome to the corporate world. That has nothing to do with IT specifically. It would be like that if you were an Accountant, Salesperson, etc.

Originally posted by: IcebergSlim
dude where are you talking about. getting in at HD is incredibly easy. if you pass the initial aptitude test youre in. The turnover rate is high because its a low paying sh1tty job. I am not speculating here . If you have marketable it skills which any 4 year uni. should have provided you there is no problem getting in somewhere outisde of a HD. Especially if you took yuor undergrad work seriously and have internships on your resume. I dont know anyone I wnet to school with that works at the help desk. I think a small handful(3-5) did it for 2-3 months right after graduation just to have some income until they landed a real IT job.

Thank you for confirming my suspicions: you have no clue what you're talking about. I work with IT/IS groups from coast to coast and have a fairly global perspective for what markets are like, and what I described is the norm. What you're describing is the rare, rare exception.

You shouldn't try to take such an authoritative stance when you haven't even spent one damn day doing what you're talking about.

lots of hard evidence there. thanks expert.

 

[freegeeks]

Originally posted by: jbourne77

Originally posted by: freegeeks
meh, I disagree

I'm a network engineer (and a damn good one) and the only way to get promoted is to go into management. There is only one problem, I'm not interested in team management.

Welcome to the corporate world. That has nothing to do with IT specifically. It would be like that if you were an Accountant, Salesperson, etc.

Originally posted by: IcebergSlim
dude where are you talking about. getting in at HD is incredibly easy. if you pass the initial aptitude test youre in. The turnover rate is high because its a low paying sh1tty job. I am not speculating here . If you have marketable it skills which any 4 year uni. should have provided you there is no problem getting in somewhere outisde of a HD. Especially if you took yuor undergrad work seriously and have internships on your resume. I dont know anyone I wnet to school with that works at the help desk. I think a small handful(3-5) did it for 2-3 months right after graduation just to have some income until they landed a real IT job.

Thank you for confirming my suspicions: you have no clue what you're talking about. I work with IT/IS groups from coast to coast and have a fairly global perspective for what markets are like, and what I described is the norm. What you're describing is the rare, rare exception.

You shouldn't try to take such an authoritative stance when you haven't even spent one damn day doing what you're talking about.

what I'm saying that as a pure technical guy you pretty much are going to hit your career ceiling within 10 years if you are any good. If you want to move up the ladder (read "earn more money") you pretty much have to move into management or you are going to stay "senior" or "architect" for the rest of your frigging live with the 1% pay raise every year. For a junior team leader the ceiling is the frigging CEO position. Instead of barking at 2 grunts he can yell at 13000 people but he's basically still doing the same, people management, but now he's making $5 million.

 

[Turin39789]

Originally posted by: IcebergSlim

Originally posted by: jbourne77

Originally posted by: freegeeks
meh, I disagree

I'm a network engineer (and a damn good one) and the only way to get promoted is to go into management. There is only one problem, I'm not interested in team management.

Welcome to the corporate world. That has nothing to do with IT specifically. It would be like that if you were an Accountant, Salesperson, etc.

Originally posted by: IcebergSlim
dude where are you talking about. getting in at HD is incredibly easy. if you pass the initial aptitude test youre in. The turnover rate is high because its a low paying sh1tty job. I am not speculating here . If you have marketable it skills which any 4 year uni. should have provided you there is no problem getting in somewhere outisde of a HD. Especially if you took yuor undergrad work seriously and have internships on your resume. I dont know anyone I wnet to school with that works at the help desk. I think a small handful(3-5) did it for 2-3 months right after graduation just to have some income until they landed a real IT job.

Thank you for confirming my suspicions: you have no clue what you're talking about. I work with IT/IS groups from coast to coast and have a fairly global perspective for what markets are like, and what I described is the norm. What you're describing is the rare, rare exception.

You shouldn't try to take such an authoritative stance when you haven't even spent one damn day doing what you're talking about.

lots of hard evidence there. thanks expert.

bout as much as you provided. I left IT because the jobs were getting shorter, the pay was getting worse, and I ended up on a public help desk. Jumped over to the exciting health insurance industry while I go back to school

 

[MiniDoom]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: ultimatebob
I'm a Systems Administator, and I agree that it's a pretty dead end career path. It seems a lot easier to get promoted to a management position through Sales or Finance than it is through IT.

Wow, it's very Geographic.

Those in the North and Northeast say it's dead-end.

Those in the South and West are loving it.

Interesting.

It might be part of the real estate bubble. Here in the DC area it isn?t hard to find an IT job that pays 50-65k but you would struggle to survive on that paying a $2500 mortgage. Maybe in the south and west where you can still buy a house for under 200k, 65k would be a nice salary.

 

[freegeeks]

Originally posted by: rdubbz420

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: ultimatebob
I'm a Systems Administator, and I agree that it's a pretty dead end career path. It seems a lot easier to get promoted to a management position through Sales or Finance than it is through IT.

Wow, it's very Geographic.

Those in the North and Northeast say it's dead-end.

Those in the South and West are loving it.

Interesting.

It might be part of the real estate bubble. Here in the DC area it isn?t hard to find an IT job that pays 50-65k but you would struggle to survive on that paying a $2500 mortgage. Maybe in the south and west where you can still buy a house for under 200k, 65k would be a nice salary.

or you can become an Alaskian crab fishermen

<- moving to couch because "deadliest catch" is on in 5 minutes on Discovery Europe

 

[Stuxnet]

Originally posted by: IcebergSlim

Originally posted by: jbourne77

Originally posted by: freegeeks
meh, I disagree

I'm a network engineer (and a damn good one) and the only way to get promoted is to go into management. There is only one problem, I'm not interested in team management.

Welcome to the corporate world. That has nothing to do with IT specifically. It would be like that if you were an Accountant, Salesperson, etc.

Originally posted by: IcebergSlim
dude where are you talking about. getting in at HD is incredibly easy. if you pass the initial aptitude test youre in. The turnover rate is high because its a low paying sh1tty job. I am not speculating here . If you have marketable it skills which any 4 year uni. should have provided you there is no problem getting in somewhere outisde of a HD. Especially if you took yuor undergrad work seriously and have internships on your resume. I dont know anyone I wnet to school with that works at the help desk. I think a small handful(3-5) did it for 2-3 months right after graduation just to have some income until they landed a real IT job.

Thank you for confirming my suspicions: you have no clue what you're talking about. I work with IT/IS groups from coast to coast and have a fairly global perspective for what markets are like, and what I described is the norm. What you're describing is the rare, rare exception.

You shouldn't try to take such an authoritative stance when you haven't even spent one damn day doing what you're talking about.

lots of hard evidence there. thanks expert.

Sorry chump, but my ten years in the field trumps your "i know a couple guyz who did dis and dat and its ez to get in2 if u r gud".

 

[Feldenak]

Originally posted by: freegeeks

Originally posted by: rdubbz420

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: ultimatebob
I'm a Systems Administator, and I agree that it's a pretty dead end career path. It seems a lot easier to get promoted to a management position through Sales or Finance than it is through IT.

Wow, it's very Geographic.

Those in the North and Northeast say it's dead-end.

Those in the South and West are loving it.

Interesting.

It might be part of the real estate bubble. Here in the DC area it isn?t hard to find an IT job that pays 50-65k but you would struggle to survive on that paying a $2500 mortgage. Maybe in the south and west where you can still buy a house for under 200k, 65k would be a nice salary.

or you can become an Alaskian crab fishermen

<- moving to couch because "deadliest catch" is on in 5 minutes on Discovery Europe

The new season started?

 

[pontifex]

Originally posted by: jbourne77

Originally posted by: pontifex
Right now I pretty much want a job that I can walk in, do and leave and not really have to learn much.

Do you want to get paid for this magical job?

why not? whats wrong with wanting a job where you come in and do your work for the day and leave?

no running around like a chicken with its head cut off unjamming printers, installing patch # 28947037053, replacing printers, keyboards, and mice, installing program X, etc.

also, when i say "not learn much", i mean not more than i have to. i don't want to have to keep up with 5000 different technologies, 20000 different programs.

 

[Stuxnet]

Originally posted by: freegeeks

Originally posted by: jbourne77

Originally posted by: freegeeks
meh, I disagree

I'm a network engineer (and a damn good one) and the only way to get promoted is to go into management. There is only one problem, I'm not interested in team management.

Welcome to the corporate world. That has nothing to do with IT specifically. It would be like that if you were an Accountant, Salesperson, etc.

Originally posted by: IcebergSlim
dude where are you talking about. getting in at HD is incredibly easy. if you pass the initial aptitude test youre in. The turnover rate is high because its a low paying sh1tty job. I am not speculating here . If you have marketable it skills which any 4 year uni. should have provided you there is no problem getting in somewhere outisde of a HD. Especially if you took yuor undergrad work seriously and have internships on your resume. I dont know anyone I wnet to school with that works at the help desk. I think a small handful(3-5) did it for 2-3 months right after graduation just to have some income until they landed a real IT job.

Thank you for confirming my suspicions: you have no clue what you're talking about. I work with IT/IS groups from coast to coast and have a fairly global perspective for what markets are like, and what I described is the norm. What you're describing is the rare, rare exception.

You shouldn't try to take such an authoritative stance when you haven't even spent one damn day doing what you're talking about.

what I'm saying that as a pure technical guy you pretty much are going to hit your career ceiling within 10 years if you are any good. If you want to move up the ladder (read "earn more money") you pretty much have to move into management or you are going to stay "senior" or "architect" for the rest of your frigging live with the 1% pay raise every year. For a junior team leader the ceiling is the frigging CEO position. Instead of barking at 2 grunts he can yell at 13000 people but he's basically still doing the same, people management, but now he's making $5 million.

True. If you're a pure technical guy, your career is probably dead end. That's because the industry has moved beyond the "geek" realm. To be successful you need to be highly skilled technically and have a great charismatic personality to go with it. Programmers are no longer programmers anymore: they are business analysts who are often facing the customers directly.

But this is part of the skills expansion. IT/IS is similar to medicine and law in that if you don't keep up with the times, you get left in the dust. It's just the nature of the beast.

 

[Stuxnet]

Originally posted by: pontifex

Originally posted by: jbourne77

Originally posted by: pontifex
Right now I pretty much want a job that I can walk in, do and leave and not really have to learn much.

Do you want to get paid for this magical job?

why not? whats wrong with wanting a job where you come in and do your work for the day and leave?

From all of your posts over the last several months, I gather that you want to change careers while maintaining your current salary (or thereabouts) without having to invest any time and/or money in learning new skills.

Do you see the problem here? The job you're describing is Lottery Ticket Winner.

 

[IceBergSLiM]

Originally posted by: jbourne77

Originally posted by: freegeeks

Originally posted by: jbourne77

Originally posted by: freegeeks
meh, I disagree

I'm a network engineer (and a damn good one) and the only way to get promoted is to go into management. There is only one problem, I'm not interested in team management.

Welcome to the corporate world. That has nothing to do with IT specifically. It would be like that if you were an Accountant, Salesperson, etc.

Originally posted by: IcebergSlim
dude where are you talking about. getting in at HD is incredibly easy. if you pass the initial aptitude test youre in. The turnover rate is high because its a low paying sh1tty job. I am not speculating here . If you have marketable it skills which any 4 year uni. should have provided you there is no problem getting in somewhere outisde of a HD. Especially if you took yuor undergrad work seriously and have internships on your resume. I dont know anyone I wnet to school with that works at the help desk. I think a small handful(3-5) did it for 2-3 months right after graduation just to have some income until they landed a real IT job.

Thank you for confirming my suspicions: you have no clue what you're talking about. I work with IT/IS groups from coast to coast and have a fairly global perspective for what markets are like, and what I described is the norm. What you're describing is the rare, rare exception.

You shouldn't try to take such an authoritative stance when you haven't even spent one damn day doing what you're talking about.

what I'm saying that as a pure technical guy you pretty much are going to hit your career ceiling within 10 years if you are any good. If you want to move up the ladder (read "earn more money") you pretty much have to move into management or you are going to stay "senior" or "architect" for the rest of your frigging live with the 1% pay raise every year. For a junior team leader the ceiling is the frigging CEO position. Instead of barking at 2 grunts he can yell at 13000 people but he's basically still doing the same, people management, but now he's making $5 million.

True. If you're a pure technical guy, your career is probably dead end. That's because the industry has moved beyond the "geek" realm. To be successful you need to be highly skilled technically and have a great charismatic personality to go with it. Programmers are no longer programmers anymore: they are business analysts who are often facing the customers directly.

But this is part of the skills expansion. IT/IS is similar to medicine and law in that if you don't keep up with the times, you get left in the dust. It's just the nature of the beast.

i agree.

 

[pontifex]

Originally posted by: jbourne77

Originally posted by: pontifex

Originally posted by: jbourne77

Originally posted by: pontifex
Right now I pretty much want a job that I can walk in, do and leave and not really have to learn much.

Do you want to get paid for this magical job?

why not? whats wrong with wanting a job where you come in and do your work for the day and leave?

From all of your posts over the last several months, I gather that you want to change careers while maintaining your current salary (or thereabouts) without having to invest any time and/or money in learning new skills.

Do you see the problem here? The job you're describing is Lottery Ticket Winner.

also, when i say "not learn much", i mean not more than i have to. i don't want to have to keep up with 5000 different technologies, 20000 different programs. i never said i didn't want to invest any time or money, but i'd like to invest as little as possible. and once i have that job, i don't want to have to continually learn more and more just to stay current.

Its not like i'm being paid 70k for what i do now. i make 33k a year. thats pretty damn low to me. why shouldn't i be able to find a job in another field that makes that little?

 

[IceBergSLiM]

Originally posted by: pontifex

Originally posted by: jbourne77

Originally posted by: pontifex

Originally posted by: jbourne77

Originally posted by: pontifex
Right now I pretty much want a job that I can walk in, do and leave and not really have to learn much.

Do you want to get paid for this magical job?

why not? whats wrong with wanting a job where you come in and do your work for the day and leave?

From all of your posts over the last several months, I gather that you want to change careers while maintaining your current salary (or thereabouts) without having to invest any time and/or money in learning new skills.

Do you see the problem here? The job you're describing is Lottery Ticket Winner.

no running around like a chicken with its head cut off unjamming printers, installing patch # 28947037053, replacing printers, keyboards, and mice, installing program X, etc.

also, when i say "not learn much", i mean not more than i have to. i don't want to have to keep up with 5000 different technologies, 20000 different programs

uhhhhh no wonder your so miserable.......dude.....monster.com.......get going stat.

 

[ViviTheMage]

im 19 working as a fill in for an IT Manager here...considered an IT assistnat, but since the IT Manager passed away, I kind of took the roll on as a IT Manager (defiantly not the pay!)

and I think there is growth if you know where to look. I am looking to get an entry level position starting at 40k (here in Minnesota thats OK). and im 19 I think its pretty good. I dont have my bachelors yet, but I will try to get my work to pay for it. They are hiring for a new IT manager here and its well paying! 35 an hour + benefits. (70k???)

I think theres room, I hope! haha

 

[ViviTheMage]

Originally posted by: yllus
Can we break that out into finer terms?

If by 'IT' we mean "I fix computers when people in an office break them," then yes, there's not an enormous chance that IT will lead you anywhere.

If by 'IT' we mean software development, network operations, project management... Enormous growth potential. Even if you've not an ambitious bone in your body, you can easily stay employed for life by going from company to company and doing some moderate upkeep on your knowledge level.

QFTQFTQFTQFTQFTQFT