Again Palestine just shows that it wants war

RichardE

Banned
Dec 31, 2005
10,246
2
0
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7555990.stm

Israel has offered a peace deal to the Palestinians which would annex 7.3% of the West Bank and keep the largest settlements, Israeli reports say.

In return the Palestinians would be given land equivalent to 5.4% of the West Bank in the Negev desert, the Israeli newspaper Haaretz reported. ....


"The only subject that was discussed seriously was the borders but we never reached an agreement. The gap is still as wide as ever," Abu Rudeineh told the BBC.

"This plan is totally unacceptable because we insisted to the Israelis that the border can only be on the basis of 1967," he said.

About half a million Israeli settlers live among 2.5 million Palestinians in the West Bank and East Jerusalem, land that was occupied by Israel in the 1967 war.

Palestine needs to get it through there thick skulls that they will never have the 1967 borders again, everyone else in the world understands it, except these so called "peace loving, best intention " hypocrites.
 

Skyclad1uhm1

Lifer
Aug 10, 2001
11,383
87
91
So in exchange for all the fertile land that was stolen they'll get a genuine piece of infertile desert without any redeeming qualities! Wow, what a great deal! That's indeed weird that they don't like that idea!
 

Drift3r

Guest
Jun 3, 2003
3,572
0
0
Originally posted by: Skyclad1uhm1
So in exchange for all the fertile land that was stolen they'll get a genuine piece of infertile desert without any redeeming qualities! Wow, what a great deal! That's indeed weird that they don't like that idea!

Mean while more illegal settlements are built in order to up root Palestinians and push them out.
 

PokerGuy

Lifer
Jul 2, 2005
13,650
201
101
Oh gee, what a wonderful deal, I can't possibly see why they wouldn't want to give up their usable land for a smaller piece of infertile desert. :roll:

Seems to me that by continuing to build and add to these settlements, it's the Israelis that are showing that they are not interested in legitimate peace talks.

As usual both sides are wrong and inflexible, that's the crux of the real problem.
 

Dari

Lifer
Oct 25, 2002
17,133
38
91
Originally posted by: Skyclad1uhm1
So in exchange for all the fertile land that was stolen they'll get a genuine piece of infertile desert without any redeeming qualities! Wow, what a great deal! That's indeed weird that they don't like that idea!

Land of milk and honey vs. Land of infertility.
 

Xavier434

Lifer
Oct 14, 2002
10,373
1
0
The debates over who deserves what and what when it comes to the land over there have been going on for hundreds of years. I remember reading a history book about how Britain tried to sort it all out a long time ago and it turned into a massive mess that just ended up throwing tons of fuel into the fire.
 

JS80

Lifer
Oct 24, 2005
26,271
7
81
Originally posted by: RichardE
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7555990.stm

Israel has offered a peace deal to the Palestinians which would annex 7.3% of the West Bank and keep the largest settlements, Israeli reports say.

In return the Palestinians would be given land equivalent to 5.4% of the West Bank in the Negev desert, the Israeli newspaper Haaretz reported. ....


"The only subject that was discussed seriously was the borders but we never reached an agreement. The gap is still as wide as ever," Abu Rudeineh told the BBC.

"This plan is totally unacceptable because we insisted to the Israelis that the border can only be on the basis of 1967," he said.

About half a million Israeli settlers live among 2.5 million Palestinians in the West Bank and East Jerusalem, land that was occupied by Israel in the 1967 war.

Palestine needs to get it through there thick skulls that they will never have the 1967 borders again, everyone else in the world understands it, except these so called "peace loving, best intention " hypocrites.

And anyone that believes the lower case "p" palestinians will keep the peace if Israel goes back to 1967 is, as Vic would say, "smoking crack."
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,809
6,364
126
Originally posted by: JS80
Originally posted by: RichardE
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7555990.stm

Israel has offered a peace deal to the Palestinians which would annex 7.3% of the West Bank and keep the largest settlements, Israeli reports say.

In return the Palestinians would be given land equivalent to 5.4% of the West Bank in the Negev desert, the Israeli newspaper Haaretz reported. ....


"The only subject that was discussed seriously was the borders but we never reached an agreement. The gap is still as wide as ever," Abu Rudeineh told the BBC.

"This plan is totally unacceptable because we insisted to the Israelis that the border can only be on the basis of 1967," he said.

About half a million Israeli settlers live among 2.5 million Palestinians in the West Bank and East Jerusalem, land that was occupied by Israel in the 1967 war.

Palestine needs to get it through there thick skulls that they will never have the 1967 borders again, everyone else in the world understands it, except these so called "peace loving, best intention " hypocrites.

And anyone that believes the lower case "p" palestinians will keep the peace if Israel goes back to 1967 is, as Vic would say, "smoking crack."

Maybe, but to insist on less just because that might be a possibility is not only smoking crack, it's bogating the crack.
 

Mxylplyx

Diamond Member
Mar 21, 2007
4,197
101
106
I think Israel should give them what they ask, except for Jerusalem. Let them have an internationally recognized state. However, make clear to them that with their state comes responsibilities. Israel will respond to an attack from that state just as they would any other state, and the international community could say jack shit about it.
 

kylebisme

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2000
9,396
0
0
Originally posted by: RichardE
Palestine needs to get it through there thick skulls that they will never have the 1967 borders again, everyone else in the world understands it...
You've got that turned around. The vast majorty of the world understands that Israel's colonization into Palestine's 1967 boarders is illegal, as exemplefied in dozens of UN resolutions. Here is one of the more recent examples:

Resolution adopted by the General Assembly

[ on the report of the Special Political and Decolonization Committee
(Fourth Committee) (A/62/405)]



62/108. Israeli settlements in the Occupied Palestinian Territory, including East Jerusalem, and the occupied Syrian Golan



The General Assembly,
Guided by the principles of the Charter of the United Nations, and affirming the inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by force,

Recalling its relevant resolutions, including resolution 61/118 of 14 December 2006, as well as those resolutions adopted at its tenth emergency special session,

Recalling also relevant Security Council resolutions, including resolutions 242 (1967) of 22 November 1967, 446 (1979) of 22 March 1979, 465 (1980) of 1 March 1980, 476 (1980) of 30 June 1980, 478 (1980) of 20 August 1980, 497 (1981) of 17 December 1981 and 904 (1994) of 18 March 1994,

Reaffirming the applicability of the Geneva Convention relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War, of 12 August 1949,1 to the Occupied Palestinian Territory, including East Jerusalem, and to the occupied Syrian Golan,

Considering that the transfer by the occupying Power of parts of its own civilian population into the territory it occupies constitutes a breach of the Fourth Geneva Convention1 and relevant provisions of customary law, including those codified in Additional Protocol I2 to the four Geneva Conventions,3

Recalling the advisory opinion rendered on 9 July 2004 by the International Court of Justice on the Legal Consequences of the Construction of a Wall in the Occupied Palestinian Territory ,4 and recalling also General Assembly resolutions ES-10/15 of 20 July 2004 and ES-10/17 of 15 December 2006,

Noting that the International Court of Justice concluded that "the Israeli settlements in the Occupied Palestinian Territory (including East Jerusalem) have been established in breach of international law",5

Taking note of the recent report of the Special Rapporteur of the Human Rights Council on the situation of human rights in the Palestinian territories occupied by Israel since 1967,6

Recalling the Declaration of Principles on Interim Self-Government Arrangements of 13 September 19937 and the subsequent implementation agreements between the Palestinian and Israeli sides,

Recalling also the Quartet road map to a permanent two-State solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict,8 and noting specifically its call for a freeze on all settlement activity,

Aware that Israeli settlement activities involve, inter alia, the transfer of nationals of the occupying Power into the occupied territories, the confiscation of land, the exploitation of natural resources and other illegal actions against the Palestinian civilian population,

Bearing in mind the detrimental impact of Israeli settlement policies, decisions and activities on efforts to achieve peace in the Middle East,

Expressing grave concern about the continuation by Israel, the occupying Power, of settlement activities in the Occupied Palestinian Territory, in violation of international humanitarian law, relevant United Nations resolutions and the agreements reached between the parties, and concerned particularly about Israel's construction and expansion of settlements in and around Occupied East Jerusalem, including its so-called E-1 plan, aimed at connecting its illegal settlements around and further isolating Occupied East Jerusalem, and in the Jordan Valley,

Expressing grave concern also about the continuing unlawful construction by Israel of the wall inside the Occupied Palestinian Territory, including in and around East Jerusalem, and expressing its concern in particular about the route of the wall in departure from the Armistice Line of 1949, which is causing serious humanitarian hardship and a serious decline of socio-economic conditions for the Palestinian people, is fragmenting the territorial contiguity of the Palestinian Territory and could prejudge future negotiations and make the two-State solution physically impossible to implement,

Deeply concerned that the wall's route has been traced in such a way as to include the great majority of the Israeli settlements in the Occupied Palestinian Territory, including East Jerusalem,

Reiterating its opposition to settlement activities in the Occupied Palestinian Territory, including East Jerusalem, and in the occupied Syrian Golan and to any activities involving the confiscation of land, the disruption of the livelihood of protected persons and the de facto annexation of land,

Recalling the need to end all acts of violence, including acts of terror, provocation, incitement and destruction,

Gravely concerned about the dangerous situation resulting from violent actions taken by the illegal armed Israeli settlers in the occupied territory,

Noting the Israeli withdrawal from within the Gaza Strip and parts of the northern West Bank and the importance of the dismantlement of the settlements therein as a step towards the implementation of the road map,

Taking note of the relevant reports of the Secretary-General,9

1. Reaffirms that the Israeli settlements in the Palestinian territory, including East Jerusalem, and in the occupied Syrian Golan are illegal and an obstacle to peace and economic and social development;

2. Calls upon Israel to accept the de jure applicability of the Geneva Convention relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War, of 12 August 1949,1 to the Occupied Palestinian Territory, including East Jerusalem, and to the occupied Syrian Golan and to abide scrupulously by the provisions of the Convention, in particular article 49;

3. Notes the Israeli withdrawal from within the Gaza Strip and parts of the northern West Bank and the importance of the dismantlement of the settlements therein as a step towards the implementation of the road map8 and the need for the parties to speedily resolve all remaining issues in the Gaza Strip;

4. Calls upon Israel, the occupying Power, to comply strictly with its obligations under international law, including international humanitarian law, with respect to the alteration of the character and status of the Occupied Palestinian Territory, including East Jerusalem;

5. Reiterates its demand for the immediate and complete cessation of all Israeli settlement activities in all of the Occupied Palestinian Territory, including East Jerusalem, and in the occupied Syrian Golan, and calls for the full implementation of the relevant resolutions of the Security Council, including resolution 465 (1980);

6. Demands that Israel, the occupying Power, comply with its legal obligations, as mentioned in the advisory opinion rendered on 9 July 2004 by the International Court of Justice;4

7. Stresses the need for full implementation of the relevant resolutions of the Security Council regarding the Israeli settlements, including Security Council resolution 904 (1994), in which, among other things, the Council called upon Israel, the occupying Power, to continue to take and implement measures, including confiscation of arms, with the aim of preventing illegal acts of violence by Israeli settlers, and called for measures to be taken to guarantee the safety and protection of the Palestinian civilians in the occupied territory;

8. Reiterates its calls for the prevention of all acts of violence and harassment by Israeli settlers, especially against Palestinian civilians and properties;

9. Requests the Secretary-General to report to the General Assembly at its sixty-third session on the implementation of the present resolution.

http://domino.un.org/UNISPAL.N...80065afe7!OpenDocument
 

lupi

Lifer
Apr 8, 2001
32,539
260
126
Israel made a mistake in just handing over the Sinai. They should have relocated all the Palestinians to the area and then let the arabs work out the problems among the arabs. Allowing the Palestinians to fester inside of Israel is just masking the real problem with a continued "jew-muslim" conflict.
 

db

Lifer
Dec 6, 1999
10,575
292
126
Regardless of what the citizens of Israel want, the people in power in Israel want the win; barring that, they want war. What's right or equitable has nothing to do with it, they want the win.
Meanwhile, we in the US pay a fortune in foreign aid to Israel. For what? Did doing so keep the peace in the Middle East? No. Now they want us to bomb Iran so they don't have to.
Lobbies work: the Israeli lobby is one of the very most powerful. All Presidential candidates must genuflect before the Israeli lobbies in order to pass Go.
 

trance247

Senior member
Jan 17, 2006
363
0
0
What do you all mean by give? Israel won the war and conquered the land, made it prosper and now they hand everything down on silver platter. I visited Israel couple months ago and it is beautiful and infrastructure is amazing for the place that has been around for 60 years and I did learn quite a bit more history. Did you guys know how many Jews died before Israel becoming a state? How about settlers who made land fertile only to be attacked repeatedly and have the land razed over and over. Did you know that not even 50 years ago if you were to walk next to Jerusalem wall you'd be shot on site by Jordanian soldiers and this is the place that is HOLY to ALL major religions. We went to this place called Gushet Zion...long story short Jordanian Legion overrun the settlement in 1947, killing all defenders (about 250 against 2000) and they had every settler come to the town hall. They promised them life, in exchange for photo posing as defeated. They were lined up and shot, women and children too. Only survivor, young girl was grabbed by a Jordanian soldier and she was offered to throw the grenade in the basement of that same hall where all the wounded were. She refused, so the soldier let her go to tell the story and finished the job himself. Afterward they burned the ground and razed it. Similar tactics were used by Germans in WW2 so history does repeat itself.

There is no solution to this, even if Israel gives all of the land back.

 

HeXploiT

Diamond Member
Jun 11, 2004
4,359
1
76
Originally posted by: Skyclad1uhm1
So in exchange for all the fertile land that was stolen they'll get a genuine piece of infertile desert without any redeeming qualities! Wow, what a great deal! That's indeed weird that they don't like that idea!

Tel-aviv and other Israeli cities were deserts 60 years ago. The Israelis have made them what they are today through blood, sweat and tears.
 

JS80

Lifer
Oct 24, 2005
26,271
7
81
Originally posted by: db
Regardless of what the citizens of Israel want, the people in power in Israel want the win; barring that, they want war. What's right or equitable has nothing to do with it, they want the win.
Meanwhile, we in the US pay a fortune in foreign aid to Israel. For what? Did doing so keep the peace in the Middle East? No. Now they want us to bomb Iran so they don't have to.
Lobbies work: the Israeli lobby is one of the very most powerful. All Presidential candidates must genuflect before the Israeli lobbies in order to pass Go.

What about Arab/Islamic lobbies?
 

chrisho

Member
Jun 17, 2008
63
0
0
Originally posted by: Skyclad1uhm1
So in exchange for all the fertile land that was stolen they'll get a genuine piece of infertile desert without any redeeming qualities! Wow, what a great deal! That's indeed weird that they don't like that idea!

Why is that people only hold Israel to land gained by war under this restriction? We don't hold other countries to it. They also did serious improvements to it, let alone the fact they have killed far far less Palestinians than their neighbors did/do.
 

PokerGuy

Lifer
Jul 2, 2005
13,650
201
101
Originally posted by: Perry404
Tel-aviv and other Israeli cities were deserts 60 years ago. The Israelis have made them what they are today through blood, sweat and tears.

That.... and enormous amounts of aid, technology and funding, which the Palestinians will never receive.

 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,809
6,364
126
Originally posted by: chrisho
Originally posted by: Skyclad1uhm1
So in exchange for all the fertile land that was stolen they'll get a genuine piece of infertile desert without any redeeming qualities! Wow, what a great deal! That's indeed weird that they don't like that idea!

Why is that people only hold Israel to land gained by war under this restriction? We don't hold other countries to it. They also did serious improvements to it, let alone the fact they have killed far far less Palestinians than their neighbors did/do.

We do hold others to it. It has been a longtime since Territory through Conquest has been considered acceptable.
 

jonks

Lifer
Feb 7, 2005
13,918
20
81
Originally posted by: PokerGuy
Originally posted by: Perry404
Tel-aviv and other Israeli cities were deserts 60 years ago. The Israelis have made them what they are today through blood, sweat and tears.

That.... and enormous amounts of aid, technology and funding, which the Palestinians will never receive.

If they used the funding they currently got towards building schools, hospitals and infrastructure instead of guns and bombs and compensation for suicide bomber families, if they formed a functioning democracy that disassociated itself from terror tactics, then maybe it actually would get funding. But when the political party in power still has internal factions which support, condone and plan blowing up civilians, foreign aid will not be forthcoming in any serious quantity.

http://www.washingtontimes.com...7/palestinian-funding/
A showdown could be looming between Congress and the Bush administration over a $150 million request for emergency aid for the Palestinian Authority government led by President Mahmoud Abbas.

At issue is whether or not Mr. Abbas has either the capacity or desire to bring Palestinians closer to a peace deal with Israel, and it was his own words that triggered congressional wrath.

In an interview with Jordanian newspaper Al-Dastur last week, Mr. Abbas spoke with pride of violence he had waged in his past, suggested that terrorism could start anew in the future, and essentially backed away from repeated statements that he recognizes Israel's right to exist. A top congressional appropriator, Foreign Operations Chairman Nita Lowey, said flatly, President Abbas' recent statements cast doubt on his willingness to take the steps necessary for peace with Israel.

But Mr. Abbas' comments alone likely would not have sparked this fracas. Just one day after news of the interview shocked key legislators and staffers, who learned of it last Thursday when it was translated into English by watchdog group Palestinian Media Watch (PMW), the administration sent over its request for $150 million in direct cash assistance to Abbas' PA.

What were they [administration officials] thinking sending over the request the day after Abbas announces he's open to re-starting terrorism and doesn't really recognize Israel's right to exist? asked one miffed Hill staffer.

Appearing much less careful than when speaking in English, Mr. Abbas last week told the Arabic-language Al-Dastur, I was honored to be the one to shoot the first bullet in 1965, the year his organization, Fatah, initiated terrorism against Israel. (Transcript provided by PMW.) The renowned moderate Palestinian leader then explained his pride in having taught resistance to many in this area and around the world ... including Hezbollah, who were trained in [PLO] camps.

At least Mr. Abbas stated an opposition to terrorism, noting, Now we are against armed conflict. His reasoning, though, is what troubles Congress: because we are unable. Possibly hinting at a shift in strategies, he immediately added, In the future stages, things may be different.

Most concerning to Congress, however, was a statement that at first blush might seem relatively innocuous. Discussing the question of whether or not Hamas must recognize Israel, Mr. Abbas explained, I don't demand that the Hamas movement recognize Israel. I only demanded of the [Palestinian] national unity government that would work opposite Israel in recognition of it.

This comment raised eyebrows because it shifted the common understanding of what it means to recognize the Jewish state. Most understand recognition to be fairly straightforward: The acknowledgement of the right of Israel to exist peacefully as a Jewish state neighboring a Palestinian one. Mr. Abbas, however, now defines recognition as acknowledging in a literal sense that an entity named Israel is the country at the other end of the negotiating table.

Mr. Abbas does not deserve the benefit of the doubt on this count. Defending his recognition of Israel on TV network Al-Arabiya in October 2006, he explained that it was more a practical reality than a meaningful political position. He cited as an example the need for the PA to get $500 million from Israel: The Palestinian finance minister has to come to an agreement with the Israeli finance minister about the transfer of the money. So how can he make an agreement with him if [the PA finance minister] does not recognize him? So I do not demand of Hamas nor any other to recognize Israel. But from the government that works with Israelis in day to day life, yes.

In other words, Mr. Abbas only recognizes Israel when money is on the line, but not in the way the U.S. and Israel think he does.

The contents of that interview only came to public attention because of the tireless work of Palestinian Media Watch, which monitors a wide array of Palestinian media on a shoestring budget. And in the next week, PMW will be releasing a report titled Since Annapolis, which will detail how in the few months since this most recent round of peace talks, the PA Abbas-controlled media has continued to send clear messages to its people that deny Israel's right to exist and anticipate its destruction, according to PMW director and founder Itamar Marcus.

Even if Rep. Lowey gets strong bipartisan support to withhold the $150 million from the PA, odds are Mr. Abbas will get the money he needs in the short run, whether from the U.S. or not. But in the future, he might finally be more careful before speaking even in Arabic.


And the Palestinian Authority might lose financial support from Norway for using the funds donated for ludicrous propaganda like this:

http://www.pmw.org.il/Bulletins_july2008.html#b300708

Palestinian Authority libel:
Israel's supernatural rats
chase away Jerusalem's Arabs
by Itamar Marcus and Barbara Crook, July 24, 2008

The Palestinian Authority has come up with yet another wild accusation about Israel. Two PA newspapers - one directly controlled by the office of PA President Mahmoud Abbas - are accusing Israel of releasing rats with supernatural qualities to chase away the Arab residents of Jerusalem.

According to the PA papers, the Israeli-Jerusalem rat is:

1. Immune to rat poison;
2. Aggressive and larger than usual;
3. Unafraid of cats and able to scare them away;
4. Highly fertile -- female rat gives birth to 140 babies a year, four times the normal average;
5. Highly selective -- Jewish residents of Jerusalem apparently are not affected by these rats.
 

Czar

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
28,510
0
0
jonks,
they do use the funds for schoolds, hospitals, roads, housing... but whats the point when it all could get destroyed
 

JS80

Lifer
Oct 24, 2005
26,271
7
81
Originally posted by: jonks
Originally posted by: PokerGuy
Originally posted by: Perry404
Tel-aviv and other Israeli cities were deserts 60 years ago. The Israelis have made them what they are today through blood, sweat and tears.

That.... and enormous amounts of aid, technology and funding, which the Palestinians will never receive.

If they used the funding they currently got towards building schools, hospitals and infrastructure instead of guns and bombs and compensation for suicide bomber families, if they formed a functioning democracy that disassociated itself from terror tactics, then maybe it actually would get funding. But when the political party in power still has internal factions which support, condone and plan blowing up civilians, foreign aid will not be forthcoming in any serious quantity.

http://www.washingtontimes.com...7/palestinian-funding/



And the Palestinian Authority might lose financial support from Norway for using the funds donated for ludicrous propaganda like this:

http://www.pmw.org.il/Bulletins_july2008.html#b300708

Palestinian Authority libel:
Israel's supernatural rats
chase away Jerusalem's Arabs
by Itamar Marcus and Barbara Crook, July 24, 2008

The Palestinian Authority has come up with yet another wild accusation about Israel. Two PA newspapers - one directly controlled by the office of PA President Mahmoud Abbas - are accusing Israel of releasing rats with supernatural qualities to chase away the Arab residents of Jerusalem.

According to the PA papers, the Israeli-Jerusalem rat is:

1. Immune to rat poison;
2. Aggressive and larger than usual;
3. Unafraid of cats and able to scare them away;
4. Highly fertile -- female rat gives birth to 140 babies a year, four times the normal average;
5. Highly selective -- Jewish residents of Jerusalem apparently are not affected by these rats. :laugh:

Using PA funds to build schools, etc is not the goal of the PA. Their goal is the destruction of Israel, and to kill the jews.

LULZ @ the israeli rats. Unafraid of cats and able to scare them away.....hahahaha
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,889
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: RichardE
Palestine needs to get it through there thick skulls that they will never have the 1967 borders again, everyone else in the world understands it, except these so called "peace loving, best intention " hypocrites.

Why the big bad U.S. won't allow it?
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
42,589
5
0
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: RichardE
Palestine needs to get it through there thick skulls that they will never have the 1967 borders again, everyone else in the world understands it, except these so called "peace loving, best intention " hypocrites.

Why the big bad U.S. won't allow it?

1) The Palestinians have not shown that they will honor any agreements. Excuses are found for when they close one eye to the troublemakers. We saw what happened this summer in Gaza.

2) The '67 borders were an arbitrary line because the Arabs had their tail between their legs and it was the only conflict that Israel actually did not fall back first on. Everything else, the Arabs started on the sneak; therefore by the UN thinking, the Arabs should be held to a different standard.

3) Under the Arab rule, the land was fairly barren. Under Israel rule, the Jews improved the land. They do all the work and then the Palestinians get the rewards. there may be pockets that have flourished under the Palestinians; however, it is Israel that has been responsible for the major land improvements out of a desert.

 

seemingly random

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 2007
5,277
0
0
Palestinians don't know how to conduct themselves in any manner other than as victims. Until they change this, nothing will change.
 

PokerGuy

Lifer
Jul 2, 2005
13,650
201
101
Pinning the blame for that whole fiasco on one side or the other is simply ignorance and folly. Both sides are to blame. For every piece of 'evidence' you present of how badly one side behaves, there is equivalent 'evidence' of the other side doing such things. The situation in which the Palestinians live is simply untenable from a human rights and freedom perspective, while the Palestinian view of tolerating violent acts towards Israel is equally untenable. Both are understandable given each side's perspective, but they will never solve the problem until the real causes are addressed.