Aftermarket 980 vs sapphire Fury video

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RampantAndroid

Diamond Member
Jun 27, 2004
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Because its a miracle 980 OC vs basically gimped OC Fury without vcore, from a bias reviewer, ofc its gonna win that contest, if it didnt, that would be the shocking thing.

So why is VCore locked for ASUS and Sapphire? Shouldn't they be able to do VCore changes? Is the lack of VCore changes in the cards being sold a sign that AMD just isn't enabling VCore tweaks?
 

tential

Diamond Member
May 13, 2008
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So why is VCore locked for ASUS and Sapphire? Shouldn't they be able to do VCore changes? Is the lack of VCore changes in the cards being sold a sign that AMD just isn't enabling VCore tweaks?
It's been explained numerous times has it not?

Unless I'm mistaken, the people who release vcore tools didn't receive samples. It's in the works and they are now working on it. All of this time talking about fury oc nonstop and people still don't understand the fury oc situation....
 

railven

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2010
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It's been explained numerous times has it not?

Unless I'm mistaken, the people who release vcore tools didn't receive samples. It's in the works and they are now working on it. All of this time talking about fury oc nonstop and people still don't understand the fury oc situation....

Someone posted something Uniwinder saying it's gonna be tricky. Someone can regurgitate it. Basically, didn't sound good. Heck I'll see if I Can find it.

EDIT: There they are:
Uniwinder said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucky_n00b View Post
Doing i2c dump indeed cause black screen crash. But if we scan some specific areas we can get the values:
Click to show spoiler



Probing with /ri6, 30, 92 (or ri7,30,92), gives 43 response, so I'm trying to use the third party voltage control method and made msiafterburner.oem2 file consist on these lines:

;OEM
[VEN_1002&DEV_7300&SUBSYS_0B361002&REV_C8]
VDDC_IR3567B_Detection=6:30h
VDDC_IR3567B_Type= 1
VDDC_IR3567B_Output= 0

And the voltage control shows a value that can be controlled up to +100mV *sorry can't post image/link yet*, but every time I alter those voltages, the Card frequencies are sometimes stuck in 300Mhz even with 3D load.

I tried the other way using normal voltage control method, adding this line to the hardware profiles using
[Settings]
VDDC_IR3567B_Detection = 30h
VDDC_IR3567B_Output = 0

But the result is the same, the voltage control shows a slider to +100mV but when you set it, the card stuck to 2D Frequencies.

I'll probably do more test when my preordered card is delivered, the one I'm testing with already returned back to AMD.
That's both positive and negative info. Positive: device 30h in the dump is IR3567B with no doubts, so driver-level I2C access is indeed working and VRM can be accessed on software level. Negative: such reaction on overvolting (graphics card downclocking) smells by hitting some hardware limit, I'm not too optimistic on improving it.
 
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bystander36

Diamond Member
Apr 1, 2013
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It's been explained numerous times has it not?

Unless I'm mistaken, the people who release vcore tools didn't receive samples. It's in the works and they are now working on it. All of this time talking about fury oc nonstop and people still don't understand the fury oc situation....

The situation is that when people do an OC comparison, certain people get all upset saying it's biased because they didn't use non existing tools.

It's perfectly fine to mention that things may change, or likely may change when tools are available, but the lying and accusations thrown around just does not help anyone.

However, there is no crystal ball that tells us that with these tools, Fury will OC well. At the current vcore settings, there is almost no room for OCing. Anything else is speculation. I am not optimistic on the OC potential when it requires vcore adjustments to get anywhere.
 

x3sphere

Senior member
Jul 22, 2009
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www.exophase.com
Given past statements from AMD saying this card would be an overclocker's dream I am surprised they didn't supply an official overvolt tool. They did in the past, 5970 shipped to reviewers with one and overclocking was a big focus with that card.
 

Hitman928

Diamond Member
Apr 15, 2012
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The way AMD does voltages on Fury now seems to have complicated matters as far as 3rd parties trying to unlock voltage control. I hope AMD will work with them to get it going but Fury X was released almost a month ago now. I understand Unwinder not having access to a card has greatly slowed his progress, but you would think Sapphire or MSI would have something by now, obviously they have cards to work with. I have no problem seeing max OC 980 vs max OC Fury right now because that's what people are deciding on today. Although I do think that this particular review was a little lacking (Jayztwocents).
 

railven

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2010
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Given past statements from AMD saying this card would be an overclocker's dream I am surprised they didn't supply an official overvolt tool. They did in the past, 5970 shipped to reviewers with one and overclocking was a big focus with that card.

Perhaps it's our interpretation of the wording that is wrong?

Could be they used this wording for "dream."

Especially after the flogging they got for heat and noise?
 

tential

Diamond Member
May 13, 2008
7,348
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The situation is that when people do an OC comparison, certain people get all upset saying it's biased because they didn't use non existing tools.

It's perfectly fine to mention that things may change, or likely may change when tools are available, but the lying and accusations thrown around just does not help anyone.

However, there is no crystal ball that tells us that with these tools, Fury will OC well. At the current vcore settings, there is almost no room for OCing. Anything else is speculation. I am not optimistic on the OC potential when it requires vcore adjustments to get anywhere.
I'm not saying it will change anything. I'm just saying you'd have to be borderline retarded to compare the oc performance of 2 cards when you know 1 cards oc potential will change.

I'd understand if it was 3 months in and we said who knows when these tools are coming let's evaluate oc performance as is.

Its not been 3 months, we have confirmation oc tools are possible and being worked on, and people still want to say with absolute certainty that oc 980 >OC fury when you don't know fury oc potential. But this is the Internet and people don't care about objectivity it's all about pushing your favorite team. I don't know why people love these companies.
 

bystander36

Diamond Member
Apr 1, 2013
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I'm not saying it will change anything. I'm just saying you'd have to be borderline retarded to compare the oc performance of 2 cards when you know 1 cards oc potential will change.

I'd understand if it was 3 months in and we said who knows when these tools are coming let's evaluate oc performance as is.

Its not been 3 months, we have confirmation oc tools are possible and being worked on, and people still want to say with absolute certainty that oc 980 >OC fury when you don't know fury oc potential. But this is the Internet and people don't care about objectivity it's all about pushing your favorite team. I don't know why people love these companies.

You'd have to be borderline retarded to not compare OC vs OC now when cards are available and people want to see the results, even if they will change in the future. People want to see them compared now, so they do it now and maybe they'll do it again later.
 

MagickMan

Diamond Member
Aug 11, 2008
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I'm not saying it will change anything. I'm just saying you'd have to be borderline retarded to compare the oc performance of 2 cards when you know 1 cards oc potential will change.

We don't know that it will change, only that it may. So far overvolting isn't working, and frankly for all we know it may not ever work with the current generation Fury and Fury X.
 

RampantAndroid

Diamond Member
Jun 27, 2004
6,591
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It's been explained numerous times has it not?

Unless I'm mistaken, the people who release vcore tools didn't receive samples. It's in the works and they are now working on it. All of this time talking about fury oc nonstop and people still don't understand the fury oc situation....

I get that the tools like the MSI Afterburner tool didn't happen for this reason; I'm instead asking why ASUS and Sapphire weren't able to modify the BIOS directly - that is after all how the factory overclocks are done, right? So why didn't they go that route? Are they prohibited from modifying VCore?
 

Gikaseixas

Platinum Member
Jul 1, 2004
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Fury being newer, has more chances of getting faster as new drivers get released. If said tools never get release it will be a shame since AMD promised potential customers overclocking beasts.
 

rgallant

Golden Member
Apr 14, 2007
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Fury being newer, has more chances of getting faster as new drivers get released. If said tools never get release it will be a shame since AMD promised potential customers overclocking beasts.
lol
more than a shame if the furies do oc and amd can't even think of sending unwinder a return with high pump noise.
very bad quarter and this.
even if I hoped amd would pull it's head out of it's axx ,it still looks like amd is still a cpu company and not a cpu/gpu one .
they just don't have a clue about gpu gaming and the people looking to buy their cards.
Today, 08:31 | posts: 11,886 | Location: Taganrog, Russia
Quote:
Originally Posted by aNoN_
The world stands still until Fury X gets voltage support! Well, at least I do... My purchase choice are all up to if Fury can OC decently or not. Are you gonna be receiving a card soon Unwinder?

No, it is even not in the way yet.
 

ocre

Golden Member
Dec 26, 2008
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You'd have to be borderline retarded to not compare OC vs OC now when cards are available and people want to see the results, even if they will change in the future. People want to see them compared now, so they do it now and maybe they'll do it again later.

These vendors usually ship cards with overclocking utilities. AMD has overclocking tools and they know very well how the voltage is controlled on the card they made.

I can't think of a single gpu in years that has launched with no voltage control. I also have a very hard time accepting this as just some oversight by AMD. I believe it was purposefully locked and none of the vendors were given permission to allow voltage control. When nvidia limited voltage control, all hell broke loose. Nvidis voltage control today is very limited. Msi only allows 80mv on my 980. It's not a total lockdown but it is very very limited.

Some people say maxwell overvolts itself. But that isn't really true. It works within a range which is more complex. Because the voltage is dynamic, ppl say and think it overvolts itself. Not really, it is just dynamic and working within its ranges.

My point is, nvidia allows very little overvolting on maxwell. Adding .88mv on my 980 doesn't help my overclock at all, it has a negative effect.
Nvidia boost is sophisticated and doesn't work at one set voltage. Different clocks and different loads cause different voltages.

I think it is pretty obvious, at least to me, why and how maxwell overclocks like it does. Nvidia just didn't push the clocks, they were conservative and kept well within the sweet spot for the design. There is a range where the power consumption and clock curve is optimal. similar to a car engine and its hp to rpm curve. I believe nvidia clocked their chips in the middle of the curve while AMD pushed GCN to the edge for max performance.

Look at fermi, as power hungry as they were, the gtx470, 480, and 460s clocked like mad.....they had a lot of room left. Back then the node yielded chips with much lower clock speeds but we were seeing 20% overclocks easy, on stock voltages. 20% is low balling it, bad too.
Back then, there was headroom. Maxwell has headroom, fury not so much.

I believe AMD is clocked on the edge of the ideal zone and this prevents higher overclocking. With voltage, you would get more MHz but the power consumption would disproportionately shoot up.

When the nano launches, we can see if it holds true. It should be clocked lower, but if it is able to overclock at a higher percentage over fury x, then there is no more debating this.
 
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RampantAndroid

Diamond Member
Jun 27, 2004
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The question I've asked and not had answered is this: I get there are no tools to run in Windows to change the voltage, but why didn't any of the Fury X manufacturers (or Fury) do these overclocks in BIOS? That shouldn't be held back at all by the lack of Windows tools, right?

The lack of overvolting on Fury tells me that AMD is preventing OEMs from doing the overclocks. Is this line of thinking not correct?
 

ocre

Golden Member
Dec 26, 2008
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No doubt in my mind.

I believe nvidia doubled down on voltage control and AMD is following suit. In the long run, it may save them money if failure rates go down
 

Hitman928

Diamond Member
Apr 15, 2012
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Ocre, I think that is the point of Fury (X) voltage control changes. They've brought the voltages down from 1 set number and they are tuned to use a voltage on a per gpu basis which means that the cards are using less voltage than how they did it before. It is more similar to nvidia now. What they don't do AFAIK, that nvidia does is dynamically scale the voltage according to the target clock so that as you overclock a Fury, you don't get an increasing voltage like with Maxwell. I think this answers RampantAndroid's question because the OEMs have to be able to work with the new voltage scheme and are probably still figuring it out. Either that or the voltages are really just locked down which would be unfortunate, but from the rumors I've seen, even the OEMs didn't really get sufficient access to Fury before launch to provide the proper tools/BIOS. We'll find out in the next few months I suppose.
 

ocre

Golden Member
Dec 26, 2008
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Oh, yeah.

I do believe that AMD tuned the voltage per binning of each chip. There is a range that already exist.

It just doesn't seem like it would take months to figure out how to u lock the voltage. The vendors have everything they need rig before them. The voltage control is not there and it just seems very unlikely this is accidental.

Unwinder is trying and ran into some issues. We will get some type of solution, eventually. But it might come from custom/ modded bios hacks.
 

littleg

Senior member
Jul 9, 2015
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AMD must know how the voltages on their cards work and how they can be accessed. It should be fairly trivial for them to help out the OEMs with creating the tools to do it if they so desired. At the end of the day it's in their best interests to get these tools out there and get some factory OC cards shipping to generate some buzz and make some money.
 

dark zero

Platinum Member
Jun 2, 2015
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Fury is so good that killed their own brother the Fury X and the GTX 980 is forced to go down... to find that the R9 390X is there to smash them.

Actually nVIDIA needs to rethink what to do with the 980... is starting to stink as corpse. Similar thing with AMD FuryX... watercooled Fury could be even better than Watercooled FX.
Finally... waiting for Fury nano... why AMD didn't entered with HBM on the Mobile tier?
 

railven

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2010
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AMD must know how the voltages on their cards work and how they can be accessed. It should be fairly trivial for them to help out the OEMs with creating the tools to do it if they so desired. At the end of the day it's in their best interests to get these tools out there and get some factory OC cards shipping to generate some buzz and make some money.

Fury X from what I understand will be ref only, if they change that down the road kudos.

But day 1 already has factory OC'ed Fury:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/9421/the-amd-radeon-r9-fury-review-feat-sapphire-asus/2

40mhz over ref clocks.
 

2is

Diamond Member
Apr 8, 2012
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It's actually fine, a super OC 980 (how many 980 can get 1.58Ghz?) should beat a gimped OC Fury in a few titles.

I only thought it was funny cos Jayz says 980s are $500 while Fury is a bit more, but then he throws a more expensive 980 super OC model at it.

If you're going to accuse every review that tests overclocked cards of "gimping" fury, perhaps you should enlighten us (and them) as how to not gimp them? Last I checked, voltage tools are still not available.