After the last eight years, what could possibly posses you to vote Republican?

[Jschmuck2]

I really want to hear from Lupi - s/he, it seems to be one of the most violent voices for McCain on this board.

 

[Specop 007]

Originally posted by: Jschmuck2

Narrow minded in that those are the two issues that are the most important to you - in my opinion, there are many, many more important things to be concerned about.

That's what I meant - I wasn't attacking you and I apologize if you took it that way.

Ahh, fair enough. So what issues are important to you?
I should add, its not that other issues arent important to me its just that I see no meaningful differences between the 2 parties. For example the war. In my eyes no matter who wins or whos in power we arent just packing up an leaving. Its an issue of whterh we leave in 6 months or 2 years. Either way we're leaving. But in issues of gun rights and social programs I do see very large differences.

 

[soulcougher73]

Originally posted by: MorrisDancer
On July 28 1943 Jan Klarski was sent by the Polish resistance leadership to ask Roosevelt to please bomb the ovens Please slow down the processes. The official Democrat response to Auschwitz was "they are only Pollacks and Jews"

I voted for a democrat once. Never Again.

In the United States I am often accused of wasting my vote if I do not vote for one of the two major parties. I am often told to choose between two evils, as others must. I have always argued that; if my vote is cast for one of two evils then I can only expect evil to win. Therefore I look elsewhere to place my vote.

I like the last paragraph. That is how i feel. That fact that these 2 idiots are the best we could come up with in a country to 300+ million is kind of sad.

 

[Zedtom]

I think that many people are closet Obama supporters. They may even claim to be McCain supporters, but the Bush betrayal, the Wall Street fiasco, and the Sarah Palin uncertainty is making them nervous. On election day, there will be last minute jumps in loyalty. Some people will let their conscience be their guide and others will let fear and prejudice blur their reasoning.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Zedtom
I think that many people are closet Obama supporters. They may even claim to be McCain supporters, but the Bush betrayal, the Wall Street fiasco, and the Sarah Palin uncertainty is making them nervous. On election day, there will be last minute jumps in loyalty. Some people will let their conscience be their guide and others will let fear and prejudice blur their reasoning.

Those people will just stay home.

 

[KevinH]

Originally posted by: Eeezee

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Genx87
We have witnessed what a one party govt can do. Lets not give the other party at least 4 years to prove the previous 8 werent a fluke. If the republicans owned congress Obama would get my vote.

That is all.

Yeah right, what a load of bullshit.

Believe what you want I really dont give a shit. I am not bound by party anymore. The republicans have completely failed my litmus test.

Did you vote for Kerry in 2004 while the Republicans held the House + Senate?

Interesting question.

No answer of course.

 

[Extelleron]

Why vote Republican? McCain isn't the ideal choice and I can't agree with the Republicans on everything but what is the alternative with Obama and other democrats?

With Obama you get a leader who.....

-Wants socialized health care. Everyone knows that any government-run program is a bureaucratic mess. Taxes will go up dramatically and the quality of care will go down. And it is the first move towards a communist style of government.

-Wants higher taxes. Obama doesn't even try to disguise this, he will raise taxes for a large number of Americans. Higher taxes and punishing success is not a good way to do business. Taxes are high enough already for every income bracket. And with the kind of additional spending that Obama wants, it is going to take a lot more than repealing the Bush cuts to break even.

-Is weak on foreign policy. This is more of an opinion, but I think it is clear that Obama will not take harsh action when necessary.

So it is not so much that I like McCain, but that I dislike Obama and what he stands for. Neither political party represents what I'd really like in Washington, but Obama and the Democrats are far worse.

 

[BarneyFife]

People that care more about the 10 comandments displayed at the local library than their job.

 

[Fern]

After the last eight years, what could possibly posses you to vote Republican?

The alternative

Fern

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: Fern

After the last eight years, what could possibly posses you to vote Republican?

The alternative

Fern

From my earlier post:

Some people [beleive]... demonization info about the left... that can weigh more than the facts.

To such people, they aren't voting for the 'factual' party in power, but for the 'ideals' or 'principles'.

The "the other party is still worse" can keep a *lot* of people voting for a bad party.

If George Bush ate a baby, some would say the democrats would probably have killed it painfully, too, they're still worse.

You're going to have a hard time getting through to people who are thorougly indoctrinated. They aren't rational in their view.

It's a little like the people who respond to claims about the 2000 election having really been won by Gore by making all kinds of attacks, and refusing to get informed.

They think the democrats are going to make the stories up, and so they decide they did, and they yell loudly their view. They refuse to look at the facts much.

I think such people are the answer to your question.

They'll vote Republican because they think Bush *tried* to do the right things, and democrats are downright dangerous.

They're voting with the 'if you love America you vote Republican' type level of brainwashing.

 

[Eeezee]

Originally posted by: redgtxdi

Originally posted by: Jschmuck2

Fair enough. Although I think it's very sad that you choose to lead such a narrow-minded life, I do appreciate that you took the time to answer my questions. Hell, I think you're the only one

Except that there's nothing sad about it, actually.

If we keep on the road we're on (meaning, I also believe the Republicans are responsible for 'more' government lately too) we're going to turn into a socialist country!!!

Next up???.......Communism!!


In short:

Dem = more government
Rep = less government
%
Despite the fact Boosh hasn't enforced that philosophy the way I'd like, that's it in a nutshell.

Now.........why someone would choose MORE gov't, to me is the bigger question.

FALSE

The Republicans have inflated the government by 60% in the last 8 years. John McCain represents more of the same even if he claims otherwise. Bush claimed otherwise, and look at where that got us?

The GOP is lead by liars, and it's sad when the Republican voters actually believe the double talk that their party's leaders are spoon feeding them.

McCain has fallen in line with Bush too many times over inflating the government to ever larger sizes. I'm sorry, but you can't pretend that he's going to shrink the government just because he says so on TV. His actions have spoken louder than words. He represents the big government that you hate so much.

Obama, on the other hand, at least has a good chance of increasing government size correctly at less expense to the taxpayers. McCain is going to inflate the government recklessly and out of control, just like the government inflation that he has supported of the last 8 years.

 

[WaTaGuMp]

We had a small talk about politics over the weekend and while normaly I stay away from doing so I was bored. I brought up the point to a friend about what if McCain died and Palin became president would you think that is a good thing, he said absolutely. I dont consider myself to be any expert on politics, but I just cant agree with that happening and being a good thing for our country, but hey I guess I am dumb.

 

[Eeezee]

Originally posted by: winnar111

Originally posted by: Eeezee
Math is obviously not your strong point.

In the 2006 election, as opposed to the 2000-2004 elections, the House swung by 60 seats! Taking that into consideration, it is statistically likely that the Republicans will pick up more seats this time around as opposed to previous elections (when change was slower). This is basic time-dependent statistical fluctuations that we're talking about. A large deviation like what we saw in 2006 is most likely to accompany a so-called 'pendulum swinging the other way' effect.

Also, when did I suggest that the Republicans held a significant House majority in 2004? Holding even a 1-seat majority in the Senate makes your Congressional holding a 'significant majority' in my book; you're able to pass whatever you want anytime you want, especially with the way that the Republicans in Congress have fallen in line. In contrast, the Democrats hold a similarly slim majority in the House as the Republicans did last go around, but now they don't have a Senate majority. This is a much larger difference than you're letting on.

The facts -
Democrats have a slim majority in the House
No one has a Senate majority
Statistics tells us that the Democrats are likely to surrender some House AND Senate seats due to last year's winnings being so large

In 2004 the Republicans held both the House and the Senate. Where were your principles then? I'm still waiting on an answer. Everyone who voted for Bush in 2004 and is now voting for McCain in 2008 based on 'checks and balances' is a liar.

1. Except there is no indication that the GOP has any chance at picking up seats in Congress. Unlike the Presidency, they are getting creamed in the polls.

The Democrats didn't take back Congress in 1996 after the 1994 readjustment, did they?

2. The Senate Republicans in 2004 had a 1 vote majority, same as the Democrats do now. Yeah, that includes Joe Lieberman now, but we had Lincoln Chafee back then, so it evens out.

The real facts are that the Democrats have the same 'significant' majority now in the Senate that the GOP had 4 years ago.

Even by your own silly definition of 2 Senators being a significant majority, you need 2 houses of Congress to do much of anything, and the GOP had a very slim majority in the House at the time.

This is irrelevant and you're trying to steer us off topic in an attempt to avoid the real question. How many Republicans voting for McCain for the sake of 'checks and balances' voted for Kerry in 2004? Would it be fair to say almost none of them?

As an aside, independents don't count; they're not as easily swayed by party politics as a Democrat or Republican. Thus, a pure Republican majority in the Senate like they had in 2004 is an actual majority, whereas you have demonstrated a faux majority in today's Senate. No one owns the Senate - 49 Democrats and 2 independents are not the same as 51 Democrats. It doesn't matter how much you want to claim otherwise, the Democrats do not have a majority in the Senate.

 

[Eeezee]

Originally posted by: Darwin333

Originally posted by: Eeezee

Originally posted by: Skoorb

Originally posted by: danzig

Originally posted by: Skoorb
Stupidity and/or poor self-esteem (specifically, inability to admit fault and learn from errors).

Locally , I have seen many people who are finally admitting to this.

I screwed up and voted for GWB the first time. Shortly after , it was like GWB & Palpatine were merging into the same person.

Many of us didn't see him for the refuse he is. That's ok just as long as we have learned from our mistakes. That's all anybody can ask of us.

You nominated McCain. Obviously you didn't learn from your mistakes.

The Dems nominated Obama. Obviously they didn't learn from their mistakes when they lost the last election darn near handed to them. This shouldn't even be a contest right now.

Irrelevant - this topic is about the Republicans choosing the same leader every 4 years (Bush twice and then McCain). Gore was different from Kerry, who was different from Obama.

Obama is a great candidate, but he'd be a lot better as a white candidate. Taking that into account, I'd say that his current standing makes him an outstanding pick for the Democrats. His being black is easily a 5 point hit (guess) amongst states where racism is still prevalent (Georgia, Alabama, etc.).

Either way, Obama is kicking McCain's ass, so obviously we did learn from our mistakes

 

[Eeezee]

Originally posted by: KevinH

Originally posted by: Eeezee

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Genx87
We have witnessed what a one party govt can do. Lets not give the other party at least 4 years to prove the previous 8 werent a fluke. If the republicans owned congress Obama would get my vote.

That is all.

Yeah right, what a load of bullshit.

Believe what you want I really dont give a shit. I am not bound by party anymore. The republicans have completely failed my litmus test.

Did you vote for Kerry in 2004 while the Republicans held the House + Senate?

Interesting question.

No answer of course.

But I've also noticed that no one is bringing up bipartisan government as a good reason to vote for McCain. Typical Republican tactics, they're thinking up a new spin now that they've been called on their bullshit

 

[Eeezee]

Originally posted by: Fern

After the last eight years, what could possibly posses you to vote Republican?

The alternative

Fern

You'll vote for a bad leader because the other party's leader is good? That's pretty shitty logic.

Democrats currently run closer to the ideals that conservatives like than the Republicans do. That's what makes this so ironic; the Democrats have maintained smaller government and less spending than the Republicans, and have made better foreign policy decisions as well.

And hey, let's not forget that the Republicans are trying to act like the morality police. Smaller government my ass

 

[winnar111]

Originally posted by: Eeezee
Irrelevant - this topic is about the Republicans choosing the same leader every 4 years (Bush twice and then McCain). Gore was different from Kerry, who was different from Obama.

Obama is a great candidate, but he'd be a lot better as a white candidate. Taking that into account, I'd say that his current standing makes him an outstanding pick for the Democrats. His being black is easily a 5 point hit (guess) amongst states where racism is still prevalent (Georgia, Alabama, etc.).

Either way, Obama is kicking McCain's ass, so obviously we did learn from our mistakes

You mean the GOP re-nominated a popular incumbent in 2004? Say it ain' so!

What's different between Kerry and Obama, other than skin color and vocals?

 

[JeffreyLebowski]

Originally posted by: CanOWorms
Some people vote for the person, not a party. But I don't know why anyone would vote for McCain after he chose Palin. How can you let someone dumber than the pretzel that almost assassinated Bush be president after grandpa McCain dies?

How can you vote for someone with no experience and both he and his VP pick are vocally anti Civil Rights. Opposition to any of the Amendments to the Bill of Rights is anti Civil Rights.

Obama and Biden may fool your simplistic minds by saying he is pro 2nd, but if you read his website and listen to him he want to re-institute and make the AWB permanent. If they truly cared about rights they would understand the "shall not be infringed" part means no banning of weapons.
It also goes to show that they and their followers that believe in their crap are fullyout of touch with reality and facts. If you are going to ban something you better understand why you want to ban it and articulate why.
You can't be pro 2nd but want to infringe upon that right.

 

[JeffreyLebowski]

Originally posted by: Kadarin
People often don't base their vote on rational factors. Some people will, for example, completely ignore everything bad that the Republicans have done to the US in the past 8 years, and vote for the candidate who is against abortion, or the one who wants to have kids pray in public schools. Or they'll vote for McCain because Palin is "hot".

Hahaha. That's fucking rich. If anyone votes on rational factors it is Repubs. Democrats are all about emotional decisions. Gotta have that Universal health care, damn the costs. Gotta have mandatory service in Peace Corps because it would better someone, even though they don't want to do it.

If by rational you mean say well the repubs messed up so I'll just vote for the Dem this time because all Repubs are the same and well the Dem must have better ideas even though he can't really explain them other than using Hope, Change and Courage.

 

[winnar111]

Originally posted by: Eeezee
Democrats currently run closer to the ideals that conservatives like than the Republicans do. That's what makes this so ironic; the Democrats have maintained smaller government and less spending than the Republicans, and have made better foreign policy decisions as well.

Keep saying that. Someday, someone might believe it.

 

[Fern]

Originally posted by: Eeezee

Originally posted by: Fern

After the last eight years, what could possibly posses you to vote Republican?

The alternative

Fern

You'll vote for a bad leader because the other party's leader is good? < Is this a typo?, because it makes no sense That's pretty shitty logic.

No, while the Repub do not adhere to, or perhaps share, the conservative pricipals/ideas I hold, I see no reason whatsoever to vote for a party that is even further away from my positions.

There is also the issue of a single party controlling DC, I do not consider that inconsequential

Democrats currently run closer to the ideals that conservatives like than the Republicans do.

No, they don't.

I personally doubt they'll control spending any more than the Rewpubs, instead they'll shift it to the areas they prefer (liberal - not conservative areas).

I fear the Dems will grant amnesty for illegal aliens. I know they won't allow new (oil) drilling either. These are two issues important to me. Hence, no one can reasonably expect to me to support the Dems and so stuff like Craig234 posts above is BS.

That's what makes this so ironic; the Democrats have maintained smaller government and less spending than the Republicans, and have made better foreign policy decisions as well.

Nope, I disagree with the above. While spending has been down a little since the Dems took Congress, they are operating under a hostile Exec branch that has started vetoing bills. I don't believe that will be the case under an Obama presidency.

I don't see any good "foreign policy decisions" they've made either. They haven't been in a position to do so since Clinton either.

And hey, let's not forget that the Republicans are trying to act like the morality police. Smaller government my ass

Haha, like the Dems aren't "morality police", they're just a different *flavor*, that's all.

See bolded

Fern

 

[jpeyton]

Originally posted by: JeffreyLebowski
You can't be pro 2nd but want to infringe upon that right.

The 2nd amendment is so far down the list of issues important to voters this year, I doubt it makes most voter's top 10.

The NRA will run their typical election year bogeyman ads, but their money will go largely down the drain as nearly all the attention is focused on the economy.

 

[compuwiz1]

What could posses me to vote republican? Obama

Actually, I might not vote this year. Obama claims to be a Christian but he has Muslim roots and extremists in his heritage. Scary shit to me. What if he turns coat? :shocked:

 

[jpeyton]

Originally posted by: compuwiz1
Obama claims to be a Christian but he has Muslim roots and extremists in his heritage. Scary shit to me. What if he turns coat? :shocked:

:laugh:

It's comforting to know you're in California, where you can't do much damage at the polls.

 

[Darwin333]

Originally posted by: Eeezee

Originally posted by: Darwin333

Originally posted by: Eeezee

Originally posted by: Skoorb

Originally posted by: danzig

Originally posted by: Skoorb
Stupidity and/or poor self-esteem (specifically, inability to admit fault and learn from errors).

Locally , I have seen many people who are finally admitting to this.

I screwed up and voted for GWB the first time. Shortly after , it was like GWB & Palpatine were merging into the same person.

Many of us didn't see him for the refuse he is. That's ok just as long as we have learned from our mistakes. That's all anybody can ask of us.

You nominated McCain. Obviously you didn't learn from your mistakes.

The Dems nominated Obama. Obviously they didn't learn from their mistakes when they lost the last election darn near handed to them. This shouldn't even be a contest right now.

Irrelevant - this topic is about the Republicans choosing the same leader every 4 years (Bush twice and then McCain). Gore was different from Kerry, who was different from Obama.

Obama is a great candidate, but he'd be a lot better as a white candidate. Taking that into account, I'd say that his current standing makes him an outstanding pick for the Democrats. His being black is easily a 5 point hit (guess) amongst states where racism is still prevalent (Georgia, Alabama, etc.).

Either way, Obama is kicking McCain's ass, so obviously we did learn from our mistakes

Its pointless to try to debate this with a partisan but I'll make a few points. How the hell could a white senator with his experience get the parties nod for the big shot? He hasn't really done anything. Then we have, what little we have of, his political history. The country is not majority liberal and its not majority conservative. Most people are somewhere in the middle and "middle of the road" Americans are who decide elections (which is why we see Obama moving way to the center). If Obama stuttered would he even be considered for VP? Even a higher voice?


Not to mention, the Repubs HATE their candidate. As far as the polls, a week ago they showed McCain up and I believe they are still in a pretty much statistical tie. The Dems should be 10 points ahead even if they had a purple martian running.