After my arm workout - size is good but shoud I get more definition?

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mrkun

Platinum Member
Jul 17, 2005
2,177
0
0
Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: mrkun
Originally posted by: Accipiter22
Originally posted by: mrkun
Out of curiosity, what's considered "low volume/high intensity"?

high weights, not a lot of sets...low reps

Isn't that a strength workout? Hypertrophy is typically 8-12 reps/set with <90 second recovery, no?

No.

You're not going to get stronger without getting bigger. You're not going to get bigger without getting stronger. Muscle size and strength are directly correlated.

My size exploded when I dropped my rep range to 6-8 and stretched my recovery out to 3-4 minutes.

How do you explain skinny powerlifters/olympic lifters (lower weight classes) who can lift as much as significantly more built guys?
 

Nutdotnet

Diamond Member
Dec 5, 2000
7,721
3
81
Originally posted by: mrkun
Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: mrkun
Originally posted by: Accipiter22
Originally posted by: mrkun
Out of curiosity, what's considered "low volume/high intensity"?

high weights, not a lot of sets...low reps

Isn't that a strength workout? Hypertrophy is typically 8-12 reps/set with <90 second recovery, no?

No.

You're not going to get stronger without getting bigger. You're not going to get bigger without getting stronger. Muscle size and strength are directly correlated.

My size exploded when I dropped my rep range to 6-8 and stretched my recovery out to 3-4 minutes.

How do you explain skinny powerlifters/olympic lifters (lower weight classes) who can lift as much as significantly more built guys?

Show us a skinny pl/ol...

And most NATURAL bodybuilders worth their salt recommend heavy sets, low reps (4-8), and significant recovery times.
 

Cerpin Taxt

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
11,940
542
126
Anybody wanna comment on my routine?

I do 3 days in the gym on a rotation like so:

Day 1: Chest and Shoulders
Day 2: Legs and Back
Day 3: Arms and Abs

I also play rugby so I get my cardio there on the in-between days, i.e. gym Mon Wed Fri and rugby Tues Thurs Sat.

In the gym I typically do a series of warm-up sets for each muscle group before I do 3 "heavy" sets each of 3 different lifts per group. On my "heavy" sets I usually do a weight that is heavy enough to make me fail within 4-6 reps. I've read conflicting suggestions regarding lifting to failure in my "heavy" sets, though. Is it a good idea?

Right now I'm about 6'2" and 210. I'm eating like a champ -- lots of whey, tuna, chicken, cottage cheese at night, brown rice, oatmeal, etc... I wanna get to 220 or 225 by the end of the year.
 

amicold

Platinum Member
Feb 7, 2005
2,656
1
81
To the OP, your lats could be worked a bit. I like the traps though, although it might just be your pose, no offense intended.
 

crt1530

Diamond Member
Apr 15, 2001
3,194
0
0
Originally posted by: mrkun
How do you explain skinny powerlifters/olympic lifters (lower weight classes) who can lift as much as significantly more built guys?
Post a picture of a top level powerlifter or olympic weightlifter who you consider to be "skinny." Aside from heavyweights, most all lifters within a discipline (PL or OL) regardless of weight class have relatively similar BMIs. The guys in the lower weight classes are shorter.

You can get stronger without adding significant mass. This is achieved through improving neuromuscular efficiency. That being said, putting on more muscle mass will make strength gains easier and larger in magnitude than if you are simply maintaining weight.
 

mrkun

Platinum Member
Jul 17, 2005
2,177
0
0
Originally posted by: Nutdotnet
Originally posted by: mrkun
Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: mrkun
Originally posted by: Accipiter22
Originally posted by: mrkun
Out of curiosity, what's considered "low volume/high intensity"?

high weights, not a lot of sets...low reps

Isn't that a strength workout? Hypertrophy is typically 8-12 reps/set with <90 second recovery, no?

No.

You're not going to get stronger without getting bigger. You're not going to get bigger without getting stronger. Muscle size and strength are directly correlated.

My size exploded when I dropped my rep range to 6-8 and stretched my recovery out to 3-4 minutes.

How do you explain skinny powerlifters/olympic lifters (lower weight classes) who can lift as much as significantly more built guys?

Show us a skinny pl/ol...

And most NATURAL bodybuilders worth their salt recommend heavy sets, low reps (4-8), and significant recovery times.

I went to high school with this guy.

According to Tom DeLong sets of 10 reps with 60 second recovery periods are standard for hypertrophy.

Edit: I'm not saying there's no correlation between mass and strength, just that that it's more than possible to be quite strong without having a lot of mass.
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
56,515
16,238
146
Originally posted by: mrkun

I went to high school with this guy.

According to Tom DeLong sets of 10 reps with 60 second recovery periods are standard for hypertrophy.

Edit: I'm not saying there's no correlation between mass and strength, just that that it's more than possible to be quite strong without having a lot of mass.

Now, you will always find genetic freaks. I have seen them as well. Small guys that are unnaturally strong are rare, but not THAT rare... and their strength/size has more to do with genetics that any one training routine.

But I will tell you this: I gained my size from low volume/high intensity training. Anyone I know that is natural and big has done the same.

A hint: You will find lots of "experts" in fitness. And they will tell you many conflicting things. 90% of what you hear is BS and snake oil.

Why? Because most of them have juiced. And for them, no matter what they did they got huge.

I know what has worked for me, and every other natural weight lifter I have met.
 

Special K

Diamond Member
Jun 18, 2000
7,098
0
76
Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: mrkun

I went to high school with this guy.

According to Tom DeLong sets of 10 reps with 60 second recovery periods are standard for hypertrophy.

Edit: I'm not saying there's no correlation between mass and strength, just that that it's more than possible to be quite strong without having a lot of mass.

Now, you will always find genetic freaks. I have seen them as well. Small guys that are unnaturally strong are rare, but not THAT rare... and their strength/size has more to do with genetics that any one training routine.

But I will tell you this: I gained my size from low volume/high intensity training. Anyone I know that is natural and big has done the same.

A hint: You will find lots of "experts" in fitness. And they will tell you many conflicting things. 90% of what you hear is BS and snake oil.

Why? Because most of them have juiced. And for them, no matter what they did they got huge.

I know what has worked for me, and every other natural weight lifter I have met.

Agreed. People with excellent genetics and/or people who use drugs can make very good progress despite bad training methods and crappy diets.

They then go on to preach the wonders of their training program and diet, not realizing that it was their genetics and drug use that accounted for 90+% of their success.

Has anyone here ever read Arnold's Encyclopedia of Modern Bodybuilding? A lot of n00bs buy that book and think it is a good way to train because hey - Arnold followed it and look at him. If it worked for him it must work for everyone, right?
 

TheNinja

Lifer
Jan 22, 2003
12,207
1
0
Originally posted by: amicold
To the OP, your lats could be worked a bit. I like the traps though, although it might just be your pose, no offense intended.

no offense taken. the traps are partially do to the pose I think. And yes, my lats have always been a weak point. I used to hate to work back so I didn't. That of course made it even weaker. Now I'm trying to get my back and lats to catch up and it's been a tough road. I just find it really hard to get a good pump in my back and lats. Unlike Chest and arms where I can get a huge pump going on. I'm trying though. Deadlifts, pulldowns/pullups are a large part of my weekly routine now.


On another note. You can get stronger without getting bigger but only to a point. Also, as mentioned, genetics have a lot to do with your size/strength ratio. Also, there is a difference between function strength and lifting weights strength. I know a guy who didn't really lift a lot of weight on his bench/dead, etc...but if you grappled with him, when he got a hold on you it was like a snake with vice grips and he could just manhandle people much larger than him and was incredibly "functionally" strong.

edit: also this thread has reached the Top 40 Hot threads...lol. thanks arguing muscleheads
 

Nutdotnet

Diamond Member
Dec 5, 2000
7,721
3
81
Originally posted by: Garth
Anybody wanna comment on my routine?

I do 3 days in the gym on a rotation like so:

Day 1: Chest and Shoulders
Day 2: Legs and Back
Day 3: Arms and Abs

I also play rugby so I get my cardio there on the in-between days, i.e. gym Mon Wed Fri and rugby Tues Thurs Sat.

In the gym I typically do a series of warm-up sets for each muscle group before I do 3 "heavy" sets each of 3 different lifts per group. On my "heavy" sets I usually do a weight that is heavy enough to make me fail within 4-6 reps. I've read conflicting suggestions regarding lifting to failure in my "heavy" sets, though. Is it a good idea?

Right now I'm about 6'2" and 210. I'm eating like a champ -- lots of whey, tuna, chicken, cottage cheese at night, brown rice, oatmeal, etc... I wanna get to 220 or 225 by the end of the year.

You're working two of your larger body parts in one day...why?

My three day split focuses on compound movements:

Monday: Legs (Squats, Straight-Legged Deads, Calf raises)
Wednesday: Chest/Triceps (Flat DB Bench, Incline DB Bench, Close-Grip Bench, Skull Crushers)
Friday: Back/Biceps (Deadlifts, Rows, Weighted Pullups, DB Curls)

You can probably see that I don't specifically target my shoulders or my abs in this routine. My abs get plenty of work by doing compound movements...my shoulders as well. I'll throw in a crunch set here and there when I feel like it but for the most part...I don't worry about them. My abs are plenty strong...and when I finally cut I'll have a beautiful 6-pack.
 

Nutdotnet

Diamond Member
Dec 5, 2000
7,721
3
81
Originally posted by: TheNinja
Originally posted by: amicold
To the OP, your lats could be worked a bit. I like the traps though, although it might just be your pose, no offense intended.

no offense taken. the traps are partially do to the pose I think. And yes, my lats have always been a weak point. I used to hate to work back so I didn't. That of course made it even weaker. Now I'm trying to get my back and lats to catch up and it's been a tough road. I just find it really hard to get a good pump in my back and lats. Unlike Chest and arms where I can get a huge pump going on. I'm trying though. Deadlifts, pulldowns/pullups are a large part of my weekly routine now.


On another note. You can get stronger without getting bigger but only to a point. Also, as mentioned, genetics have a lot to do with your size/strength ratio. Also, there is a difference between function strength and lifting weights strength. I know a guy who didn't really lift a lot of weight on his bench/dead, etc...but if you grappled with him, when he got a hold on you it was like a snake with vice grips and he could just manhandle people much larger than him and was incredibly "functionally" strong.

edit: also this thread has reached the Top 40 Hot threads...lol. thanks arguing muscleheads

Actually, most of us are in agreement...there's just one guy who's throwing a wrench in the works! :D
 

BudAshes

Lifer
Jul 20, 2003
13,934
3,229
146
whats the point of spending all this time and effort trying to get big muscles?

When people see big muscles they just assume you are compensating for something...
 

Cerpin Taxt

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
11,940
542
126
Originally posted by: Nutdotnet
Originally posted by: Garth
Anybody wanna comment on my routine?

I do 3 days in the gym on a rotation like so:

Day 1: Chest and Shoulders
Day 2: Legs and Back
Day 3: Arms and Abs

I also play rugby so I get my cardio there on the in-between days, i.e. gym Mon Wed Fri and rugby Tues Thurs Sat.

In the gym I typically do a series of warm-up sets for each muscle group before I do 3 "heavy" sets each of 3 different lifts per group. On my "heavy" sets I usually do a weight that is heavy enough to make me fail within 4-6 reps. I've read conflicting suggestions regarding lifting to failure in my "heavy" sets, though. Is it a good idea?

Right now I'm about 6'2" and 210. I'm eating like a champ -- lots of whey, tuna, chicken, cottage cheese at night, brown rice, oatmeal, etc... I wanna get to 220 or 225 by the end of the year.

You're working two of your larger body parts in one day...why?

My three day split focuses on compound movements:

Monday: Legs (Squats, Straight-Legged Deads, Calf raises)
Wednesday: Chest/Triceps (Flat DB Bench, Incline DB Bench, Close-Grip Bench, Skull Crushers)
Friday: Back/Biceps (Deadlifts, Rows, Weighted Pullups, DB Curls)

You can probably see that I don't specifically target my shoulders or my abs in this routine. My abs get plenty of work by doing compound movements...my shoulders as well. I'll throw in a crunch set here and there when I feel like it but for the most part...I don't worry about them. My abs are plenty strong...and when I finally cut I'll have a beautiful 6-pack.

I used to do a split like yours, actually. Chest/Tri's, Back/Bi's, and Legs/Abs.

After a while, I guess I thought it would be a good idea to do a separate dedicated arm workout apart from my chest and back workouts. I felt like I wasn't getting a chance to focus on my bi's and tri's properly after they were pre-exhausted during my chest and back workouts.

Similarly I felt like my previous split neglected my deltoids and traps, so I decided to add a dedicated shoulder workout into the mix. I put legs and back together because the deadlifts are a bit of both, then I can do my squats and rows to differentiate the two groups.
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
56,515
16,238
146
Originally posted by: BudAshes
whats the point of spending all this time and effort trying to get big muscles?

When people see big muscles they just assume you are compensating for something...

Yeah... you keep right on thinking that. :laugh:
 

tHa ShIzNiT

Platinum Member
Feb 15, 2000
2,321
8
81
Originally posted by: TheNinja
edit: also this thread has reached the Top 40 Hot threads...lol. thanks arguing muscleheads

So yeah...where can you see the top 40 hot threads?
 

TheNinja

Lifer
Jan 22, 2003
12,207
1
0
Originally posted by: Garth
Originally posted by: Nutdotnet
Originally posted by: Garth
Anybody wanna comment on my routine?

I do 3 days in the gym on a rotation like so:

Day 1: Chest and Shoulders
Day 2: Legs and Back
Day 3: Arms and Abs

I also play rugby so I get my cardio there on the in-between days, i.e. gym Mon Wed Fri and rugby Tues Thurs Sat.

In the gym I typically do a series of warm-up sets for each muscle group before I do 3 "heavy" sets each of 3 different lifts per group. On my "heavy" sets I usually do a weight that is heavy enough to make me fail within 4-6 reps. I've read conflicting suggestions regarding lifting to failure in my "heavy" sets, though. Is it a good idea?

Right now I'm about 6'2" and 210. I'm eating like a champ -- lots of whey, tuna, chicken, cottage cheese at night, brown rice, oatmeal, etc... I wanna get to 220 or 225 by the end of the year.

You're working two of your larger body parts in one day...why?

My three day split focuses on compound movements:

Monday: Legs (Squats, Straight-Legged Deads, Calf raises)
Wednesday: Chest/Triceps (Flat DB Bench, Incline DB Bench, Close-Grip Bench, Skull Crushers)
Friday: Back/Biceps (Deadlifts, Rows, Weighted Pullups, DB Curls)

You can probably see that I don't specifically target my shoulders or my abs in this routine. My abs get plenty of work by doing compound movements...my shoulders as well. I'll throw in a crunch set here and there when I feel like it but for the most part...I don't worry about them. My abs are plenty strong...and when I finally cut I'll have a beautiful 6-pack.

I used to do a split like yours, actually. Chest/Tri's, Back/Bi's, and Legs/Abs.

After a while, I guess I thought it would be a good idea to do a separate dedicated arm workout apart from my chest and back workouts. I felt like I wasn't getting a chance to focus on my bi's and tri's properly after they were pre-exhausted during my chest and back workouts.

Similarly I felt like my previous split neglected my deltoids and traps, so I decided to add a dedicated shoulder workout into the mix. I put legs and back together because the deadlifts are a bit of both, then I can do my squats and rows to differentiate the two groups.

I'm with you man. For the longest time I would do chest/tri, back/bi, legs/shoulders split. The sort of fit in abs on off days or cardio days. That is a great split and I highly recommend it. However I too felt that after a hard chest or back workout, I had very little left for tris/bis. And if you do back/tris, then try to do chest 2 days later, your tris are still weak and your chest suffers... I'll change it up after another month of my current split though.
 

TheNinja

Lifer
Jan 22, 2003
12,207
1
0
Originally posted by: TallBill
A picture of my legs

My biggest muscle group so far. Dont bother click if you're going to spew homosexual comments. Btw, picture isn't resized, so its gonna open up huge.

you got some long ass legs. and some good muscle def. i thought your kneecap was screwed up and off to the side...then I realized it was part of your quad that was sticking out all pumped up :eek: