After Ipad3 Wednesday's spotlight debacle....

[xaeniac]

How long do you give the competitor's to start making announcements of their own?

 

[MrX8503]

I think the one company to answer aggressively would be Samsung. Samsung retracted their Galaxy Tab after the iPad 2 launch and then re released it with a form factor even thinner than the iPad 2.

 

[zerogear]

I think the one company to answer aggressively would be Samsung. Samsung retracted their Galaxy Tab after the iPad 2 launch and then re released it with a form factor even thinner than the iPad 2.

I think Samsung is the only one with the capacity to do that.

 

[Puddle Jumper]

I'm wondering if Samsung deliberately held back their high end tablet so they could see what it would take to equal or beat the iPad 3. All of the Samsung tablets we saw at MWC were midrange at best and I would be shocked if they didn't have at least one high end tablet planned to compete with Apple and other Android OEMs like Asus.

 

[Bateluer]

I'm wondering if Samsung deliberately held back their high end tablet so they could see what it would take to equal or beat the iPad 3. All of the Samsung tablets we saw at MWC were midrange at best and I would be shocked if they didn't have at least one high end tablet planned to compete with Apple and other Android OEMs like Asus.

Bloody well hope so, the only decent looking tablets from MWC were the Asus models. Huawei's MediaPad 10 was barely a teaser, had no US availability, and no hard numbers of the performance of their K3 quad core.

 

[MrX8503]

I'd be surprised if Samsung didn't have a secret tablet waiting to be announced after the iPad3. The tablets Samsung presented at MWC was more of the same. If that's all they got, I'd be very surprise.

 

[bearxor]

I'm wondering if Samsung deliberately held back their high end tablet so they could see what it would take to equal or beat the iPad 3. All of the Samsung tablets we saw at MWC were midrange at best and I would be shocked if they didn't have at least one high end tablet planned to compete with Apple and other Android OEMs like Asus.

That's what I'm thinking. This way they don't do a repeat of last years "we were really surprised by what apple did, so we're going to rethink our strategy."

 

[dagamer34]

It's been pretty clear for a while what Samsung's next tablet is going to have: 2560x1600 Super AMOLED display with a Cortex A15 SoC. But it won't be ready until the summer at the earliest. However, they've learned not to announce 4-5 months in advance of shipping, so they are keeping their mouths shut until it's ready.

 

[theeedude]

Android vendors should go to 1920x1200 screens and aim for $300 price point for 10" tablets this cycle. 2560x1600 SAMOLED at $500 is going to flop.

 

[ChronoReverse]

Yeah, I honestly think they shouldn't go with "beating specs" and aim for "works great and stupidly expensive" instead.

With the release of ICS, there's a HUGE opportunity to get it completely right this round. ICS on my Touchpad is alpha and hacked, but it's still a very nice experience.

 

[TheStu]

Yeah, I honestly think they shouldn't go with "beating specs" and aim for "works great and stupidly expensive" instead.

With the release of ICS, there's a HUGE opportunity to get it completely right this round. ICS on my Touchpad is alpha and hacked, but it's still a very nice experience.

I hope you meant stupidly inexpensive, and not stupidly expensive.

Amazon won't release sales numbers, and I don't think that B&N do either, but I would wager that they, especially the Fire, are the big Android sellers, and those are half the cost or less than the iPad. Do we have sales numbers for Android tablets that are priced at parity with the iPad?

Also, simply because I haven't looked into it lately, how is Android's ecosystem doing? Or is this something that is left up to the OEMs? If it is, how are the OEMs doing? If I get a SGS II or a GNexus with a GTab, what am I looking at beyond address book syncing? The stuff that Apple is doing with its ecosystem is pretty good.

Though Chrome for Android looks awesome, I can't wait for Apple to rip off those features. I would especially like for the various Apple devices to be locally aware of other nearby devices. Let me send music to my iPhone, browser tabs to the iPad, video to the AppleTV (already in place). Let it be both automatic or manual, that would be fun. Maybe iOS 6 and Mountain Lion's unannounced features will do this.

I do want to see what the Android OEMs have up their sleeves, keep everyone moving forward. I think that specs are less important than software, iOS and WP7 have demonstrated this, and that is also where the really interesting stuff comes from. Apple took Android's notification system (to a point) and Android took WebOS's multi-tasking (at least that is what it looked like to me in ICS).

 

[ITHURTSWHENIP]

Yeah, I honestly think they shouldn't go with "beating specs" and aim for "works great and stupidly expensive" instead.

With the release of ICS, there's a HUGE opportunity to get it completely right this round. ICS on my Touchpad is alpha and hacked, but it's still a very nice experience.

That seems to be Googles strategy with the 199 dollar Nexus tablet

 

[theeedude]

$300 for 1920x1200 10" $200 for 1280x800 7" is where the mainstream Android tablet makers should be aiming for this year. They need to accept that for now, in the eyes of most consumers, Android tablets are a low cost alternative to iPad. ICS is good, but to get that message out, they need to get tablets into hands of consumers first. And that means suspending attempts to compete with iPad head on, and accepting reality of current perceptions and how much consumers are willing to spend on Android tablets. iPad is the Toyota, Android is Hyundai at this point in the tablet cycle. Hyundai started making cheap crappy cars (Gingerbread tablets), then they started making cheap good cars (ICS tablets), and only after they established to reviewers and consumers that their cars are good they started pricing them on par with Toyota.

 

[xaeniac]

$300 for 1920x1200 10" $200 for 1280x800 7" is where the mainstream Android tablet makers should be aiming for this year. They need to accept that for now, in the eyes of most consumers, Android tablets are a low cost alternative to iPad. ICS is good, but to get that message out, they need to get tablets into hands of consumers first. And that means suspending attempts to compete with iPad head on, and accepting reality of current perceptions and how much consumers are willing to spend on Android tablets. iPad is the Toyota, Android is Hyundai at this point in the tablet cycle. Hyundai started making cheap crappy cars (Gingerbread tablets), then they started making cheap good cars (ICS tablets), and only after they established to reviewers and consumers that their cars are good they started pricing them on par with Toyota.

Totally agree! Android can not compete at Apple's pricepoint. Apple has more software and support and is overall a better experience for most users besides the flash issues.

 

[Bateluer]

It's been pretty clear for a while what Samsung's next tablet is going to have: 2560x1600 Super AMOLED display with a Cortex A15 SoC. But it won't be ready until the summer at the earliest. However, they've learned not to announce 4-5 months in advance of shipping, so they are keeping their mouths shut until it's ready.

How do you figure thats been 'clear for a while'? I follow most of the blogs, rumor mills, tech sites, etc, and haven't seen anything from Samsung on a real refresh, just the half assed Tab 2 10.1 and 7s.

And 2500x1600 at a 500 dollar price point, with a power SoC to back it up, is a pretty solid deal.

I know AT MW&D likes to hold Android devices to a higher standard than the fruit branded competitors, any little thing wrong or disappointing with them and its automatically bad.

 

[Bateluer]

$300 for 1920x1200 10" $200 for 1280x800 7" is where the mainstream Android tablet makers should be aiming for this year. They need to accept that for now, in the eyes of most consumers, Android tablets are a low cost alternative to iPad. ICS is good, but to get that message out, they need to get tablets into hands of consumers first. And that means suspending attempts to compete with iPad head on, and accepting reality of current perceptions and how much consumers are willing to spend on Android tablets. iPad is the Toyota, Android is Hyundai at this point in the tablet cycle. Hyundai started making cheap crappy cars (Gingerbread tablets), then they started making cheap good cars (ICS tablets), and only after they established to reviewers and consumers that their cars are good they started pricing them on par with Toyota.

Meh, you know they can actually do both right? Thats the advantage of Android, vendors can make budget oriented tablets as well as flagship devices. Making a 300 dollar device to get you in and see the advantages of the 500 dollar device.

Its when you get over that 500 dollar price point that people get turned off. Even with the iPads.

 

[Mopetar]

$300 for 1920x1200 10" $200 for 1280x800 7" is where the mainstream Android tablet makers should be aiming for this year.

They'll end up with next to no margins at that price, meaning that they need good sell through or they're going to be stuck with a bunch of product that no one wants. The only companies that can afford to move products at those prices are Amazon and B&N who have a business model based around selling content on those devices.

More companies need to start challenging Apple at the high end and making a tablet that's worth $500. People will pay that much for a good experience (See iPad sales) and it will provide them with high enough margins that they don't get caught in the race to the bottom. So far, the only company that's really done this in the tablet space has been ASUS and they seem to be doing quite well.

 

[Fire&Blood]

I'm wondering if Samsung deliberately held back their high end tablet so they could see what it would take to equal or beat the iPad 3. All of the Samsung tablets we saw at MWC were midrange at best and I would be shocked if they didn't have at least one high end tablet planned to compete with Apple and other Android OEMs like Asus.

Assuming you are right, that would imply that Samsung is absolutely not involved in making the ipad3. Meaning that Samsung is either not manufacturing any parts or the parts they do manufacture don't give away any clues what to expect.

So if Samsung is waiting to see what's needed to meet/beat the ipad3, how long does it take them to actually design, test and produce such part?

 

[bearxor]

Assuming you are right, that would imply that Samsung is absolutely not involved in making the ipad3. Meaning that Samsung is either not manufacturing any parts or the parts they do manufacture don't give away any clues what to expect.

So if Samsung is waiting to see what's needed to meet/beat the ipad3, how long does it take them to actually design, test and produce such part?

I'm sure Samsung will be fabbing the A5X.

 

[theeedude]

They'll end up with next to no margins at that price, meaning that they need good sell through or they're going to be stuck with a bunch of product that no one wants. The only companies that can afford to move products at those prices are Amazon and B&N who have a business model based around selling content on those devices.

More companies need to start challenging Apple at the high end and making a tablet that's worth $500. People will pay that much for a good experience (See iPad sales) and it will provide them with high enough margins that they don't get caught in the race to the bottom. So far, the only company that's really done this in the tablet space has been ASUS and they seem to be doing quite well.

Realistically, these companies are making commodity hardware. Google provides the OS, and SOC vendor provides the reference design, and someone like Foxconn builds the thing. So yeah, they aren't going to have much in terms of margins. Nor should they, really. These companies are simply not adding much value to the product, and they are compensated accordingly. If you buy a PC, MS and Intel make nice margins, HP, not so much. In case of Android, the OS is free. So it better be cheaper then iPad, otherwise you are paying the tablet manufacturer for the OS, which it's not paying anything for. Why would you want to do that?

 

[theeedude]

Meh, you know they can actually do both right? Thats the advantage of Android, vendors can make budget oriented tablets as well as flagship devices. Making a 300 dollar device to get you in and see the advantages of the 500 dollar device.

Its when you get over that 500 dollar price point that people get turned off. Even with the iPads.

That's what I said though. You establish yourself with $300 tablets, then have an upgrade path for people who want to spend $500. But the mainstream segment is $200-$300.

 

[Puddle Jumper]

Also, simply because I haven't looked into it lately, how is Android's ecosystem doing? Or is this something that is left up to the OEMs? If it is, how are the OEMs doing? If I get a SGS II or a GNexus with a GTab, what am I looking at beyond address book syncing? The stuff that Apple is doing with its ecosystem is pretty good.

Android has always offered a complete ecosystem provided by Google, in many ways Apple is the one who is playing catch up on that front.

 

[TheStu]

Android has always offered a complete ecosystem provided by Google, in many ways Apple is the one who is playing catch up on that front.

Can you be more clear on that front? I am talking about beyond your contact list, Apple was late to that party, certainly the making it free, and untethered side of the party. Things like Photostream in iCloud (I think that Acer? announced something... EXACTLY like it at some conference, but does it only work on Acer devices?) Note, document and whatnot syncing over iCloud as well. Though I would like to see it expand further with more cool things like what Chrome for Android has with tab syncing, but I would want to see things like manual control over it. I may not always my tabs on my laptop or desktop to come over to my iPad (*cough cough*).

Past that, there seems to be a lot of stuff that you can do fairly easily when you play within Apple's playground. We don't know yet what is going to be in iOS6, but with Mountain Lion at least they are bringing in more cool things that you can do with the AppleTV and your additional iDevices.

 

[bearxor]

Android has always offered a complete ecosystem provided by Google, in many ways Apple is the one who is playing catch up on that front.

Yeah, you're going to have to clariy this statement.

 

[Puddle Jumper]

Can you be more clear on that front? I am talking about beyond your contact list, Apple was late to that party, certainly the making it free, and untethered side of the party. Things like Photostream in iCloud (I think that Acer? announced something... EXACTLY like it at some conference, but does it only work on Acer devices?) Note, document and whatnot syncing over iCloud as well. Though I would like to see it expand further with more cool things like what Chrome for Android has with tab syncing, but I would want to see things like manual control over it. I may not always my tabs on my laptop or desktop to come over to my iPad (*cough cough*).

Past that, there seems to be a lot of stuff that you can do fairly easily when you play within Apple's playground. We don't know yet what is going to be in iOS6, but with Mountain Lion at least they are bringing in more cool things that you can do with the AppleTV and your additional iDevices.

Picasa/Google+ offers photo syncing, Google Docs for documents, Gmail naturally, Google Voice, Chrome to Phone plus the newer syncing options you mentioned that came out with the Android version of Chrome, Google Music, Beam (NFC file sharing for ICS devices)

At this point there really isn't any cloud based service that Apple offers that Google does not have an alternative for.