After Feb. 2009 when analog TV no longer exists....

computer

Platinum Member
Nov 5, 2000
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So......after Feb. 2009 when analog TV no longer exists:

What happens to all of our portable TV's? All those battery
powered hand-held TV's and 5-7" TV's? TV's in our cars?
Useless? Money thrown away?

What happens to our TV tuner cards for our PC's? Useless?
Money thrown away?

What happens to our VCR's or any other recording device when we
need to record one program while watching another, something
done millions of times each day? Tuff?

If we are going to be shackled by these stupid boxes our cable
companies are blackmailing or extorting us to use--which in
turn render the native tuners in the TV's totally useless
REGARDLESS of whether or not they have H/DTV tuners, I supposed
they'll offer coupons for EACH of them for EACH recording
device instead of the one-per-household?? And they are going
to have them battery powered and shirtpocket size?? I smell
the largest suit in USA history.
 

Shawn

Lifer
Apr 20, 2003
32,236
53
91
The analog shutoff is only for over the air broadcast, not cable tv. It will happen eventually though. Analog is a waste of bandwidth.
 

PurdueRy

Lifer
Nov 12, 2004
13,837
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Originally posted by: computer
So......after Feb. 2009 when analog TV no longer exists:

What happens to all of our portable TV's? All those battery
powered hand-held TV's and 5-7" TV's? TV's in our cars?
Useless? Money thrown away?

Yes

What happens to our TV tuner cards for our PC's? Useless?
Money thrown away?

If it doesn't have a ATSC tuner integrated into it and you don't buy a converter box for your computer...yes

What happens to our VCR's or any other recording device when we
need to record one program while watching another, something
done millions of times each day? Tuff?

Get a converter box and send that output to your VCR. You'll most likely lose channel control unless it has a IR Blaster...which is kinda rare.

If we are going to be shackled by these stupid boxes our cable
companies are blackmailing or extorting us to use--which in
turn render the native tuners in the TV's totally useless
REGARDLESS of whether or not they have H/DTV tuners, I supposed
they'll offer coupons for EACH of them for EACH recording
device instead of the one-per-household?? And they are going
to have them battery powered and shirtpocket size?? I smell
the largest suit in USA history.

Uh...Now your confusing me. What do cable companies have ANYTHING to do with this? The converter boxes aren't made by the cable companies. This date doesn't have anything to do with cable companies. How does this change render your DTV tuner in your TV useless? That would only be if you decided to get cable. You don't have to.

Get over it.
 

vi edit

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Oct 28, 1999
62,484
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I just want to know if there are any "whole house" DTV converters I can install off the antenna and share out to every TV in the house instead of individual converter boxes.

I have two TV's in the house that are analog and one of them just really doesn't have room for a converter box (kitchen unit jammed into a shallow corner).

It'd be nice to just have something do it at the antenna source and not have to worry about it on the receiving end.
 

PurdueRy

Lifer
Nov 12, 2004
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Originally posted by: vi edit
I just want to know if there are any "whole house" DTV converters I can install off the antenna and share out to every TV in the house instead of individual converter boxes.

I have two TV's in the house that are analog and one of them just really doesn't have room for a converter box (kitchen unit jammed into a shallow corner).

It'd be nice to just have something do it at the antenna source and not have to worry about it on the receiving end.

You could...but then you would find it very difficult to change the channel ;)
 

erwos

Diamond Member
Apr 7, 2005
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Originally posted by: vi edit
I just want to know if there are any "whole house" DTV converters I can install off the antenna and share out to every TV in the house instead of individual converter boxes.
Nothing that I'm aware of. The device you're describing would de-facto have to simultaneously tune every ATSC channel it could find, convert it to NTSC, and then pipe it down some coax. That strikes me as super-expensive, since you'd need 12+ tuners in the box. No, you're better off just sucking it up and buying new ATSC tuners as needed.

You don't have a constitutional right to television. It is a service, like any other. It'd be like suing the cell phone companies because they finally turned off AMPS this year.
 

vi edit

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Oct 28, 1999
62,484
8,345
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Originally posted by: erwos
Originally posted by: vi edit
I just want to know if there are any "whole house" DTV converters I can install off the antenna and share out to every TV in the house instead of individual converter boxes.
Nothing that I'm aware of. The device you're describing would de-facto have to simultaneously tune every ATSC channel it could find, convert it to NTSC, and then pipe it down some coax. That strikes me as super-expensive, since you'd need 12+ tuners in the box. No, you're better off just sucking it up and buying new ATSC tuners as needed.

You don't have a constitutional right to television. It is a service, like any other. It'd be like suing the cell phone companies because they finally turned off AMPS this year.

Meh.

I'll probably just be a good consumer and just write it off as a reason to put a shiney new LCD HDTV with a tuner already built into it in their place.
 

RagingBITCH

Lifer
Sep 27, 2003
17,618
2
76
Originally posted by: vi edit
Originally posted by: erwos
Originally posted by: vi edit
I just want to know if there are any "whole house" DTV converters I can install off the antenna and share out to every TV in the house instead of individual converter boxes.
Nothing that I'm aware of. The device you're describing would de-facto have to simultaneously tune every ATSC channel it could find, convert it to NTSC, and then pipe it down some coax. That strikes me as super-expensive, since you'd need 12+ tuners in the box. No, you're better off just sucking it up and buying new ATSC tuners as needed.

You don't have a constitutional right to television. It is a service, like any other. It'd be like suing the cell phone companies because they finally turned off AMPS this year.

Meh.

I'll probably just be a good consumer and just write it off as a reason to put a shiney new LCD HDTV with a tuner already built into it in their place.

I would have thought you'd be happy to stick it to the wife's face:

vi: "I have to buy these TV's. Next year these crappy regular TV's won't work no more without a box to convert the signal"
vi_wife: "But...but..."
vi: "Suck it."

:)
 

vi edit

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Oct 28, 1999
62,484
8,345
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Originally posted by: RagingBITCH
Originally posted by: vi edit
Originally posted by: erwos
Originally posted by: vi edit
I just want to know if there are any "whole house" DTV converters I can install off the antenna and share out to every TV in the house instead of individual converter boxes.
Nothing that I'm aware of. The device you're describing would de-facto have to simultaneously tune every ATSC channel it could find, convert it to NTSC, and then pipe it down some coax. That strikes me as super-expensive, since you'd need 12+ tuners in the box. No, you're better off just sucking it up and buying new ATSC tuners as needed.

You don't have a constitutional right to television. It is a service, like any other. It'd be like suing the cell phone companies because they finally turned off AMPS this year.

Meh.

I'll probably just be a good consumer and just write it off as a reason to put a shiney new LCD HDTV with a tuner already built into it in their place.

I would have thought you'd be happy to stick it to the wife's face:

vi: "I have to buy these TV's. Next year these crappy regular TV's won't work no more without a box to convert the signal"
vi_wife: "But...but..."
vi: "Suck it."

:)

No need to get mean.

I'll just sell it as "Oh hey look honey...now you'll be able to watch Dancing With the Stars in high definition while making me a sammich!"
 

computer

Platinum Member
Nov 5, 2000
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Originally posted by: PurdueRy
Originally posted by: computer

What happens to our TV tuner cards for our PC's? Useless?
Money thrown away?

If it doesn't have a ATSC tuner integrated into it and you don't buy a converter box for your computer...yes
An ATSC tuner is enough, or they'll also need converter boxes?


Originally posted by: PurdueRy
Originally posted by: computer
What happens to our VCR's or any other recording device when we
need to record one program while watching another, something
done millions of times each day? Tuff?
Get a converter box and send that output to your VCR. You'll most likely lose channel control unless it has a IR Blaster...which is kinda rare.
[/quote]
But you'd need two boxes right? In order to watch one program while recording another? By IR Blaster is that those devices that convert IR to RF then back to IR again? I have some of those.



Originally posted by: PurdueRy
Originally posted by: computer
If we are going to be shackled by these stupid boxes our cable
companies are blackmailing or extorting us to use--which in
turn render the native tuners in the TV's totally useless
REGARDLESS of whether or not they have H/DTV tuners, I supposed
they'll offer coupons for EACH of them for EACH recording
device instead of the one-per-household?? And they are going
to have them battery powered and shirtpocket size?? I smell
the largest suit in USA history.

.........How does this change render your DTV tuner in your TV useless? That would only be if you decided to get cable. You don't have to.
[/quote]
If you want more than 4 channels, you have to get cable. Therefore rendering native tuners and their remotes useless (as far as tuner functions go), since they'll have to have a converter box to receive HDTV channels, correct, or not correct? I hope I'm wrong.

Here, our basic cable channels can of course be received by any TV and VCR with a ~125 channel cable tuner (but basic channels go up to ch. 71), and no problem watching one program while recording another. Premium (called "digital" here) channels start at 101 and up and for those the cable box is needed and you can't record one of those while watching anything else (or vice-versa). HDTV channels start with the 700 prefix and no TV can receive those on its own. Basic SD cable NBC for example is ch. 3. HDTV NBC is ch. 703. ABC is 5 & 705, CBS is 7 and 707, etc. The HDTV tuner in the TV is (currently) useless since it has to use the box and be on ch. 3 or 4, or the HDMI/S-video/component connectors. Will that change?



Get over it.
??????? :roll:


 

computer

Platinum Member
Nov 5, 2000
2,735
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Originally posted by: Shawn
The analog shutoff is only for over the air broadcast, not cable tv. It will happen eventually though. Analog is a waste of bandwidth.

Well I guess that's good to know. What is "eventually", months or like a decade?
 

PurdueRy

Lifer
Nov 12, 2004
13,837
4
0
Originally posted by: computer
Originally posted by: PurdueRy
Originally posted by: computer

What happens to our TV tuner cards for our PC's? Useless?
Money thrown away?

If it doesn't have a ATSC tuner integrated into it and you don't buy a converter box for your computer...yes
An ATSC tuner is enough, or they'll also need converter boxes?

A converter box IS an ATSC tuner.

Originally posted by: computer
Originally posted by: PurdueRy
Originally posted by: computer
What happens to our VCR's or any other recording device when we
need to record one program while watching another, something
done millions of times each day? Tuff?
Get a converter box and send that output to your VCR. You'll most likely lose channel control unless it has a IR Blaster...which is kinda rare.
But you'd need two boxes right? In order to watch one program while recording another? By IR Blaster is that those devices that convert IR to RF then back to IR again? I have some of those.

Depends, if your TV is receiving OTA broadcasts and you don't have a ATSC tuner in it, AND you want to watch two programs at the same time...yes you need two. However, if the recorder is connected to a TV with a ATSC tuner, you would only need one converter box to watch one show and record another. A IR blaster allows one device to control another via IR commands.

Originally posted by: computer
Originally posted by: PurdueRy
Originally posted by: computer
If we are going to be shackled by these stupid boxes our cable
companies are blackmailing or extorting us to use--which in
turn render the native tuners in the TV's totally useless
REGARDLESS of whether or not they have H/DTV tuners, I supposed
they'll offer coupons for EACH of them for EACH recording
device instead of the one-per-household?? And they are going
to have them battery powered and shirtpocket size?? I smell
the largest suit in USA history.

.........How does this change render your DTV tuner in your TV useless? That would only be if you decided to get cable. You don't have to.
If you want more than 4 channels, you have to get cable. Therefore rendering native tuners and their remotes useless (as far as tuner functions go), since they'll have to have a converter box to receive HDTV channels, correct, or not correct? I hope I'm wrong.

How was this different from before? If you used OTA via analog you probably got...7 or so channels clearly. With the digital switch this number should INCREASE for most people to about 14 or so. This is because the smaller bandwidth required for digital signals allows you to pack more channels into the same area. I still don't know what your talking about with the "native tuners". You wouldn't even be using the ATSC tuner in your TV if you had analog TV. Nor would you be using the NTSC tuner if you had a cable box. Cable has nothing to do with the converter boxes.

Originally posted by: computer
Here, our basic cable channels can of course be received by any TV and VCR with a ~125 channel cable tuner (but basic channels go up to ch. 71), and no problem watching one program while recording another. Premium (called "digital" here) channels start at 101 and up and for those the cable box is needed and you can't record one of those while watching anything else (or vice-versa). HDTV channels start with the 700 prefix and no TV can receive those on its own. Basic SD cable NBC for example is ch. 3. HDTV NBC is ch. 703. ABC is 5 & 705, CBS is 7 and 707, etc. The HDTV tuner in the TV is (currently) useless since it has to use the box and be on ch. 3 or 4, or the HDMI/S-video/component connectors. Will that change?

Again, this has NOTHING to do with cable. You have analog cable and that is not being forced off the air. The cable companies own the cable lines, they don't own the airwaves. This situation changes NOTHING for you. Now, if your cable company decides to go all digital, then that is their choice and you can be mad at them if you like. However, then you would just need a converter box that would be provided by the cable company.

Originally posted by: computer
Get over it.
??????? :roll:
[/quote]

Yup, pretty much. you came in here ranting and raving about a change that has nothing to do with you. You started talking about the biggest lawsuit in history, how it was unfair etc. Now it is evident you don't know what the entire change is even about. Before you start complaining about something it would be much better to become better informed.Again, as another person said, TV is not a constitutional right. Times change, just feel lucky that the methods we've used to receive TV broadcasts have stayed the SAME for decades! That is VERY rare in the tech industry.
 

computer

Platinum Member
Nov 5, 2000
2,735
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Originally posted by: PurdueRy

How was this different from before?
I don't know, THAT is why I'm asking about all this! I never once claimed to know anything about this, hence the reason for starting a thread on it. I "thought" someone could provide the information in a polite friendly manner.

If you used OTA via analog you probably got...7 or so channels clearly. With the digital switch this number should INCREASE for most people to about 14 or so. This is because the smaller bandwidth required for digital signals allows you to pack more channels into the same area.
No, we strictly use cable, no airway antenna....except for the portable TV's for local channels which all use the antenna.

I still don't know what your talking about with the "native tuners". You wouldn't even be using the ATSC tuner in your TV if you had analog TV. Nor would you be using the NTSC tuner if you had a cable box. Cable has nothing to do with the converter boxes.
The tuner that comes in a TV is a native tuner. For decades, they have had to be tuned to ch. 3 or 4 and your cable box was used through that channel and this is how you watched premium cable. So what kind of tuner, how many channels, and PIP is all useless and irrelevant if one always uses the cable box. All the TV needed was ch. 3 or 4 (or some kind of video input) to watch your cable TV premium channels through the cable box. As you are aware, I, anyone I would assume, have to bypass the box through which you watch premium cable in order to record one basic cable program while watching another basic cable program. This is when the TV's native tuner is used. I'm trying to ascertain if this will remain unchanged.



Yup, pretty much. you came in here ranting and raving about a change that has nothing to do with you. You started talking about the biggest lawsuit in history, how it was unfair etc. Now it is evident you don't know what the entire change is even about. Before you start complaining about something it would be much better to become better informed.Again, as another person said, TV is not a constitutional right. Times change, just feel lucky that the methods we've used to receive TV broadcasts have stayed the SAME for decades! That is VERY rare in the tech industry.
I can see you choose to be a trouble-making jerk. So how long have you worked for a cable company?? How I "came in here" is of NO CONCERN TO YOU!!! And NO, I DO NOT KNOW what this all about for if I did I WOULD NOT HAVE NEEDED TO START THIS GO*DAMN THREAD WOULD I!!! EXCUUUUUUUUUSE ME.

I, as do countless millions of others, have a lot of money tied up in portable TV's, (and computer tuner cards like the All-In-Wonder). Personally I have many; a TV for my car, 2 LCD 4" handheld TV's, a 5" CRT color TV, a 7.5" widescreen LCD TV, a 9" CRT TV, etc., all which can run off of batteries! Plus 3 PC's with AIW cards. Now, all the Billions we've spent on these devices, as the devices themselves, are total TRASH and it's more toxic $hit for the ever-exponentially-increasing toxic landfills--(except for CA which is the only sensible state with logical sensible disposal laws for said goods). Furthermore, (possibly) losing the ability to watch one program while recording another is an unacceptable situation for probably 200 million Americans. Both are a lose-lose situation for everyone (except of course the short-term gain by those that sell the new devices!) So yeah, I'm pissed off, REALLY pissed off about it, as anyone else would be that uses portable/mobile/PC TV's, and may have to pay twice the price for everything to get two of everything for at least recording situations to remain the same.

I am all for hi-tech gadgets and new technology, but NOT when it comes at such a price for so many with so many negative repercussions that far outweigh the one positive benefit.
 

wraith3k

Senior member
Apr 15, 2004
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Many other countries have already switched to digital, and we haven't heard of any real issues appearing.

 

erwos

Diamond Member
Apr 7, 2005
4,778
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76
Originally posted by: computer
I, as do countless millions of others, have a lot of money tied up in portable TV's, (and computer tuner cards like the All-In-Wonder). Personally I have many; a TV for my car, 2 LCD 4" handheld TV's, a 5" CRT color TV, a 7.5" widescreen LCD TV, a 9" CRT TV, etc., all which can run off of batteries! Plus 3 PC's with AIW cards. Now, all the Billions we've spent on these devices, as the devices themselves, are total TRASH and it's more toxic $hit for the ever-exponentially-increasing toxic landfills--(except for CA which is the only sensible state with logical sensible disposal laws for said goods). Furthermore, (possibly) losing the ability to watch one program while recording another is an unacceptable situation for probably 200 million Americans. Both are a lose-lose situation for everyone (except of course the short-term gain by those that sell the new devices!) So yeah, I'm pissed off, REALLY pissed off about it, as anyone else would be that uses portable/mobile/PC TV's, and may have to pay twice the price for everything to get two of everything for at least recording situations to remain the same.

I don't know what to say, except that this transition has been in the offing for quite a while, and it's been no secret from the public. If you invested hundreds of dollars in technology that was going to become obsolete in 5-7 years, that was possibly your mistake. I bought an NTSC dual tuner for my PC last year, even with the full realization that it would be worthless for OTA stuff at the end of 2009 - I just made sure it was priced appropriately.

But, your characterization of this as a lose-lose is just completely wrong. We're going to win when new, more useful services come rolling out on the old bands that used to be reserved for NTSC broadcasting.

I am all for hi-tech gadgets and new technology, but NOT when it comes at such a price for so many with so many negative repercussions that far outweigh the one positive benefit.

There's way more than one benefit coming from this. We're freeing up spectrum for better uses (which has any number of benefits), we're getting money from the sale of that freed-up spectrum, and ATSC is a much better transmission standard than NTSC, even for SDTV.

I hate to say it, but suck it up and take it like a man (woman?). The rest of the world is going in the same direction - Europe is doing the digital transition over the next few years, too. This isn't going to stop, and venting on the forums isn't going to help.

To answer your question: anything you have attached to cable (eg, Comcast, Cox, Time Warner) or satellite will keep on working, at least for a while longer, as the transition only affects over-the-air broadcasts. All of your OTA-only TVs (the mini ones that only have antennas) will stop working.
 

cubby1223

Lifer
May 24, 2004
13,518
42
86
Originally posted by: Shawn
Analog is a waste of bandwidth.

I disagree. :D

Here, a digital cable signal can be brought to at most 3 tvs before the signal loss is too great. Analog can be distributed to every room. Plus digital requires a extra monthly fee per box.

All I'm saying is there are advantages to analog, and some people make good use of it.
 

erwos

Diamond Member
Apr 7, 2005
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Originally posted by: cubby1223
Here, a digital cable signal can be brought to at most 3 tvs before the signal loss is too great. Analog can be distributed to every room. Plus digital requires a extra monthly fee per box.
So buy a powered amp/splitter for $20? Seriously, of all the benefits of analog cable, that's pretty much the least of them. As for the extra fee, that's for a DVR or other hardware. I use digital cable every day with a clear QAM tuner, and I don't pay anything extra.
 

PurdueRy

Lifer
Nov 12, 2004
13,837
4
0
Originally posted by: computer
The tuner that comes in a TV is a native tuner. For decades, they have had to be tuned to ch. 3 or 4 and your cable box was used through that channel and this is how you watched premium cable. So what kind of tuner, how many channels, and PIP is all useless and irrelevant if one always uses the cable box. All the TV needed was ch. 3 or 4 (or some kind of video input) to watch your cable TV premium channels through the cable box. As you are aware, I, anyone I would assume, have to bypass the box through which you watch premium cable in order to record one basic cable program while watching another basic cable program. This is when the TV's native tuner is used. I'm trying to ascertain if this will remain unchanged.

The only reason you are tuned to channel three is because that is how your TV accepts input over the RF input. This is a very poor connection resulting in very poor video quality. Really you aren't really using much of your "native" tuner right now at all! All it is using that as is a video input. The same thing would be accomplished if you connected your cable box via any other video connection. Now, if you are tuning via your TV to access the cable channels without a remote then that is a bit different.

As for the rest of the response. Smile, you now know you don't have anything to worry about :).
 

rbV5

Lifer
Dec 10, 2000
12,632
0
0
So......after Feb. 2009 when analog TV no longer exists:

repeat this; Analog BROADCAST TV.

Analog TV sets with no ATSC tuner will remain usefull for:

*Watching analog cable TV
*Watching Sat Dish TV from the Sat Box analog outputs.
*Watching DVD's from your DVD player's analog outputs.
*Recording from your cable box's analog outputs.
*Connecting to your HTPC's analog TV output.
*Connecting your Game console's analog output.
*ect ect.


get it yet?
 

computer

Platinum Member
Nov 5, 2000
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Originally posted by: theslug
Many other countries have already switched to digital, and we haven't heard of any real issues appearing.
I doubt we would hear about it if they were having any issues since that's more of a country-specific issue.

 

computer

Platinum Member
Nov 5, 2000
2,735
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Originally posted by: erwos
I don't know what to say, except that this transition has been in the offing for quite a while, and it's been no secret from the public. If you invested hundreds of dollars in technology that was going to become obsolete in 5-7 years, that was possibly your mistake.
I don't recall saying I was surprised by it.


But, your characterization of this as a lose-lose is just completely wrong. We're going to win when new, more useful services come rolling out on the old bands that used to be reserved for NTSC broadcasting.
No such thing as portable TV's and mobile TV's might be what you call win-win, but not me. We're all going to be shackled to cords. No more TV freedom. That is a step backward no matter how you look at it, there's no denying that. The plus from all this is better quality TV and perhaps more TV, but with severe restrictions on where it can be watched.


There's way more than one benefit coming from this. We're freeing up spectrum for better uses (which has any number of benefits), we're getting money from the sale of that freed-up spectrum, and ATSC is a much better transmission standard than NTSC, even for SDTV.
(I'm not sure how "we" are making money from this), but I agree with all that. What I'm saying is that TV freedom will be a thing of the past, (which is also going to be major environmental catastrophe due to the countless millions of useless portable TV's). Such an undertaking of this magnitude should not be considered until contingency plans are in place to deal with these types of issues. That's the logical approach--but when has the US Gov't ever been logical.


I hate to say it, but suck it up and take it like a man (woman?). The rest of the world is going in the same direction - Europe is doing the digital transition over the next few years, too. This isn't going to stop, and venting on the forums isn't going to help.
Why is it no one can ASK a question without some person calling it "venting". Maybe you can afford a new HDTV in every room, I can't.


To answer your question: anything you have attached to cable (eg, Comcast, Cox, Time Warner) or satellite will keep on working, at least for a while longer, as the transition only affects over-the-air broadcasts. All of your OTA-only TVs (the mini ones that only have antennas) will stop working.
Thank you.
 

computer

Platinum Member
Nov 5, 2000
2,735
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Originally posted by: cubby1223
Originally posted by: Shawn
Analog is a waste of bandwidth.

I disagree. :D

Here, a digital cable signal can be brought to at most 3 tvs before the signal loss is too great. Analog can be distributed to every room.
All I'm saying is there are advantages to analog, and some people make good use of it.
Yeah that's also another issue.

Plus digital requires a extra monthly fee per box.
Now I'm confused again, I thought with an HDTV and basic cable, a box was not needed? Just like it is now.