After 8 Yrs, Time To Build A New PC! (Advice Appreciated :)

[czarnybaran5150]

Finally after 8 years I'm back in the market to build a new PC. The advice I received from the people in this forum years ago was indispensable when I built my PC and it was the best computer I ever owned. Thank you guys for that. At this point the computer is showing it's age, but it's incredible how long it's lasted.

Last June, I did ask the forum here for advice and you guys delivered (especially nsafreak, lakedude, mnewsham, sheep221, DigDog, Azuma Hazuki, mongGrel). But with the birth of my first child, building a new PC didn't happen. And now here I am nearly a year later and we all know how fast technology moves. So I would really appreciate the forum's advice again. And yes, I'm buying and building this thing in a month.

Current budget for the tower is around $2,200. This will include the processor, graphics card, memory, motherboard, power supply, after market heatsink, fans, case, and 2 hard drives). I typically buy everything from New Egg.

What I loved about this forum is that the people here were super cool and gave really great advice. People were very practical with their recommendations on components - the advice was a great balance between performance and value, and it had a direct impact on what I ultimately purchased on my previous build.

I know from past experience it's really easy to lose your head wanting to buy "the best" of everything when starting a new build. That's where this forums advice was the most crucial the last time. My last PC build was based around a Intel Quad Core Extreme lab spec that I got for free from a friend of mine who worked at Intel. So naturally I wanted to buy the best components, but what I picked out initially were not the best for this particular processor. Instead people here pointed out that I was overpaying for components I really didn't need (the components I originally picked out were around $2,000). I ultimately purchased all of the components I needed for my last build around $1,000 and the computer was awesome and lasted 8 years.

Again, I'm trying to balance between performance and value. I'm not trying to be cheap by any means (quite the contrary, I'm willing to spend), I want to buy good stuff, but with technology you can get to a point where the slightest upgrade in performance from one component to another (e.g. processor) can cost an arm and a leg. It's about finding that sweet spot between performance and value in the marketplace. That's what I really need the most help with.

The main purpose for the computer will be for video and music production as well as gaming (come on, you knew that). So I definitely want to build a machine with some power with the memory maxed out.

To start out and keep things simple I would greatly appreciate some recommendations for a processor and motherboard combo. (FYI I've used Intel processors and Gigbayte boards in the past and never had any real issues with them).

Thanks!

 

[Valantar]

Well, there's one major change since you asked last June: AMD Ryzen CPUs. For any build meant for video production in your price range, you'd pretty much have to be crazy not to go AMD these days. Unlike the FX CPUs and A-series APUs AMD had up until this March, Ryzen is very competitive even on the high end, even beating Intel's high end X99 lineup in some measures - all while being a fraction of the cost. Oh, and in a dramatic switch-up, Ryzen is arguably more power efficient than Intel's offerings. With your budget, I'd probably go for a Ryzen 7 1800X - the highest end ~$470 8-core, 16-thread 3.6-4GHz model. For that price, you get a CPU that holds its own very well against Intel's $1100 i7-6900K. It won't overclock much (you can probably get all cores to 3.9-4.0 rather than the 3.7GHz all-core boost frequency, but that's it), but you can't beat that value. Alternatively, get a Ryzen 7 1700 (8c16t, 3.0-3.7GHz) and overclock it to pretty much match the 1800X for 3/5 the price - which would give you the budget room to go all-out on the GPU.

Now, the Ryzen platform is very new and still has some teething issues. RAM speed is especially tricky. But there's no reason to believe that won't be straightened out in the coming months, and they still perform very well at DDR4-2133 or 2400 (although it's worth mentioning that Ryzen performance seems to scale better with memory speed than Intel's architecture, so investing in DDR4-2933 or 3200 is probably worth it even if you can't run it at that speed right away). Some motherboards lack BIOS features or have various issues due to the newness of the platform. If you look at the Ryzen builders thread over in the CPUs subforum, you'll still see hordes of happy users, despite these issues. And things get constantly better with BIOS updates.

Motherboard choice is as such a bit up in the air. It also depends on the details of the rest of your build. Do you need/want SLI support, for example? Do you have any preferences in terms of case size/form factor? In general, in your price range there is no reason not to go for an X370 chipset based board, which gives you SLI support and two more PCIe lanes for storage from the chipset. These boards also tend (somewhat) to be more full-featured than others. Still, do you need any "premium" features? I haven't seen a single Ryzen motherboard yet without at least one m.2 storage slot, and RAM support is similar across the board (although some boards have better RAM speed support than others).

Also, you say you want "maxed out RAM". What do you mean by this? Do you think you need 64GB or more? For the vast majority of workloads, 32GB is sufficient (and 16GB is more than you need for gaming), but very heavy video editing might make you want more.

Here's a thrown-together suggestion from me. I've splurged a bit on the motherboard to get one of the best out there (the Taichi seems to be very highly regarded, yet is $50 cheaper than the Asus Crosshair VI, and even more below the MSI Xpower Gaming Titanium). Still, you could get pretty much the same from a cheaper board with careful selection towards your wants and needs. My main reasons for picking it was its reputation, USB 3.1G2 (with USB-C), Intel LAN, a good audio codec, and a good VRM setup. The video card is about as good as it gets today (although with AMD Vega launching in the next two months, we don't know how long that will last). If you have time to wait a bit, you might want to see how the market reacts to Vega and how it stacks up in terms of performance. Note that I haven't included a Windows licence (do you need one?) or a case, as that's very much down to personal preference. I also assume you have a storage setup that fits your needs in terms of video work - the SSD I've chosen is there for its massive performance, not capacity. It should be supplemented by HDDs for mass storage, but would be fantastic as a scratch drive for video work. The PSU isn't among the cheapest, but it's not overly expensive, decently efficient (80+ Gold) and reviews of the Supernova G3 series are overwhelmingly positive. 650W is plenty even with an 8-core Ryzen CPU and a 1080Ti GPU (even OC'd the Ryzen won't pull more than 200W, and unless you plan to push your GPU very far it hovers around 250-300W at power virus loads, not to mention that sustained full CPU+GPU loads essentially never happen in real life). If you want, you could step up to the 750W model for another $20 or so. The CPU cooler is cheap, but very good (although you might need to order a separate mounting kit due to how new the AM4 socket is). The RAM should be based on Samsung B-die RAM chips (most/all TridentZ 3200 CAS 14 kits seem to be), which for some reason pair very well with Ryzen in terms of achieving their rated speeds.

Of course, this build is very GPU-focused. If you don't need the very best GPU out there (the 1080Ti is entirely overkill for 1080p even at high refresh rates, and for 1440p as well unless you play at high refresh rates or insist on playing every game ever at entirely maxed out settings), you can easily save $200-400 by stepping down to a 1080 or 1070 and still having a very, very good GPU. That would give you back the money to fit an 1800X in there if you don't want to overclock, give you the budget for some HDDs or other things you might need, or just let you keep some cash. You could also probably save $100 on going for cheaper RAM without losing huge amounts of performance. Before Ryzen, I was a staunch advocate of buying the cheapest RAM you could find - and it's still a good value solution.

Edit: here's a more cost-optimized setup which doesn't really take anything away except for GPU performance. The RAM is a bit slower (but on the other hand it's a "Made for Ryzen" kit, so it should work great), and the motherboard lacks USB-C (but has type-A USB 3.1G2) but that's pretty much it. Overclocking potential should be pretty much the same (heck, B350 boards are even cheaper, and even these overclock pretty much as well). As stated above, this gives you the budget room for more storage, a faster-at-stock CPU, a heck of a fancy case, or whatever else you might want/need. You could even get a 1TB 960 Evo SSD if you wanted.

 

[Ancalagon44]

This would be my recommended build:
https://pcpartpicker.com/list/Hytb6X

From what you say, you don't sound like the type who wants to overclock. Therefore, I've recommended you the 1800X, which has decent performance at stock. Note that if you overclock Ryzen, you lose all of the power efficiency benefits. I've recommended you a decent motherboard but nothing extravagant. I'm personally not a believer of spending lots of money on motherboards. Maybe if you are overclocking, it matters more. For most of us, all you want is a stable board with the right features, and that is exactly what this board - a high quality board from the largest manufacturer. It can overclock, maybe just not as well as some more expensive boards.

Two drives, as you stated - one 500GB SSD boot drive and one 4GB caviar black storage drive.

You may want to upgrade the graphics card. I've recommended a 580, reason being I wasn't sure if I could choose something like a 1080 and still stay within your budget. So feel free to change that, just be aware that AMD Ryzen apparently doesn't play that well with Nvidia drivers. So, Intel and Nvidia appears to be a better combo than AMD Ryzen and Nvidia. There is a good video on Youtube by a guy called AdoredTV on the subject.

Besides which, AMD Vega comes out pretty soon. When that happens, you want to buy Vega, or, Vega may affect the pricing and availability of Nvidia cards.

Also note no Windows 10 license included.

All told, it comes in quite a bit under your budget. You could use the extra money for a better GPU, or even a second 580 if you so desired. Although I'd personally avoid multi GPU configurations. Or extra memory - you could have 64GB from the beginning.

 

[Valantar]

AMD Ryzen apparently doesn't play that well with Nvidia drivers. So, Intel and Nvidia appears to be a better combo than AMD Ryzen and Nvidia. There is a good video on Youtube by a guy called AdoredTV on the subject.

The jury's still out on that. Most reviews show marginal if not nonexistent differences. At best, the difference is a few percent - making the 580 and 1060 more of a tie in DX11 titles than on Intel, and giving AMD a further boost with DX12. A GTX 1070 will still drastically outperform a 580, not to mention a 1080 or 1080ti. That isn't to say the 580 isn't a great GPU for the money, of course. But I'd say a 580 in a ~$2000 PC - even one primarily geared for video production - is making some bad priorities.

Also, while it's true that you lose all power saving features of Ryzen when overclocking (a chip clocked at 3.9GHz will stay at 3.9GHz no matter if it's idle or under full load, and voltages will not vary much), it's still remarkably efficient. People have been reporting ~10W differences in idle power draw at the wall, which is pretty much negligible in a desktop.

 

[Ancalagon44]

The jury's still out on that. Most reviews show marginal if not nonexistent differences. At best, the difference is a few percent - making the 580 and 1060 more of a tie in DX11 titles than on Intel, and giving AMD a further boost with DX12. A GTX 1070 will still drastically outperform a 580, not to mention a 1080 or 1080ti. That isn't to say the 580 isn't a great GPU for the money, of course. But I'd say a 580 in a ~$2000 PC - even one primarily geared for video production - is making some bad priorities.

Also, while it's true that you lose all power saving features of Ryzen when overclocking (a chip clocked at 3.9GHz will stay at 3.9GHz no matter if it's idle or under full load, and voltages will not vary much), it's still remarkably efficient. People have been reporting ~10W differences in idle power draw at the wall, which is pretty much negligible in a desktop.

I'd need to do some more research on that. The differences that AdoredTV found were vast.

Yes, a 580 looks somewhat out of place in a $2000 PC, but then it does depend on exactly how much the OP games. And also, what resolution?

It's efficient at 3.9Ghz, but I'd prefer my chip to not run at 3.9Ghz unless it needs to. Not that I own a Ryzen, but if I did, I would not overclock it for precisely that reason.

 

[Valantar]

I'd need to do some more research on that. The differences that AdoredTV found were vast.

Yes, a 580 looks somewhat out of place in a $2000 PC, but then it does depend on exactly how much the OP games. And also, what resolution?

It's efficient at 3.9Ghz, but I'd prefer my chip to not run at 3.9Ghz unless it needs to. Not that I own a Ryzen, but if I did, I would not overclock it for precisely that reason.

I haven't seen the AdoredTV video, but I've seen others look into this and find marginal differences at best. Of course there are a whole host of variables in play (as with any PC issue), which might make the core of the issue tricky to pinpoint. As for the resolution, I pretty much took for granted that the OP is using something above a 1080p panel - otherwise, video production would be a challenge IMO. I might of course be wrong.

And I completely agree, running a 3.9-4GHz OC 24/7 is unnecessary. I would use Ryzen Master and set an OC profile for when it's needed, or go for the 1800X and just leave it at stock.

 

[czarnybaran5150]

Ancalagon44 and Valantar,

First off, thank you both for for taking the time to provide me such thoughtful and detailed responses. I sincerely appreciate it.

I definitely noticed the AMD Ryzen CPU's this past year. Though my last two builds both used Intel and I'm familiar with them, I would be open to trying AMD if it makes the most sense. Like with anything that's extremely new, the "teething" issues you were referring to do scare me a little bit. I definitely don't want to build something and then become immediately frustrated with it because all of the kinks haven't been worked out yet. I guess it depends upon how bad the issues are.

I've had my eyes on the Nvidia 1080 TI, but am I going to have driver and compatibility issues if I decide to go with an AMD CPU? Especially something as new as the Ryzen? Is there an equivalent 1080 card with AMD?

Every time I've built my previous PCs, I've always adhered to the philosophy of 'buy it right the first time,' and 'buy a little more than you need.' So with regards to my "maxed out RAM" statement, I've always put the maximum amount of RAM that the motherboard can hold simply because in my experience my last two builds were incredibly stable. So I would probably do something like 64 GB. I approach the power supply the same way, I always get a power supply with extra headroom because I will be attaching a number of USB devices for audio recording. I always want more than enough.

I have no intention of using more than one GPU, one really good one is enough for me, so SLI support isn't something I will need.

It's interesting that you bring up the case because that actually is a very important component for me. I absolutely want this computer to be quiet and cool. Since this computer will be used partially as a DAW, I can't have a bunch of buzzing in the background when I'm recording audio.

And I definitely want this build to be as cool as possible. My current computer doubles as a space heater LOL. And since I live in Los Angeles, that's not a good thing. I've always preferred buying third-party heatsinks for the GPU and the CPU, additional fans, and a well ventilated case. If you have any recommendations, I'm all ears.

As far as my uses for this computer, I'm definitely going to be recording music using Cubase. I have plans on getting a Universal Audio Apollo Twin USB Duo, so USB 3.0 is a must. I definitely will do some video editing and production with Adobe Premiere as I have 2 YouTube channels with 150 videos. And I will absolutely play games. So I'm basically wanting to build a computer that's a real workhorse that can handle doing all three of these things well.

And you're correct, overclocking has never been a priority for me. I just want to build a high-performance PC that runs well at stock settings.

 

[Valantar]

To address the biggest issue first: while I've heard of some issues, my impression is that a Ryzen build running at stock is no more likely than an Intel build to have significant issues. Overclocking is always a gamble, and Ryzen doesn't really go past 4.1GHz no matter what, but otherwise the only real issue is running high speed RAM. AMD has promised a big microcode update some time in May to ameliorate this, though. I wouldn't worry. It'll be fine in time, and everything works great at 2133 or 2400.

As for what you're describing of your want/needs, ar you able to expand your budget any? The reason I'm asking is that it sounds like you want a 1800X, 1080Ti and 64GB of RAM - and if you look at my first suggestion, you're already close to your budget with a 1700 and 32GB. In general, though, remember that RAM is the easiest upgrade there is. All you pretty much need to do is buy a new kit, turn off the computer, insert it, and turn on the computer. Considering that you're buying at a very bad time (RAM and SSD prices are very high due to shortages that are unlikely to be rectified this year), I would go for 32GB for now.

As for the Nvidia GPU + Ryzen issue, I've seen several reports looking into it and finding negligible differences. I've also seen edge cases where the difference has been 10% or more, but those seem to be caused by something else, as others are unable to recreat the difference. I wouldn't worry. As of now AMD doesn't have a 1080/1080Ti competitor, but Vega (their new high end GPU) is set to launch this quarter, so within a month and a half. Might be worth waiting for, but the 1080Ti is awesome no matter what.

As for a case, if you want silence I'd either go for a Be Quiet! Silent Base 600 or a Fractal Define R5 or Define S (do you need any optical drives?). The CPU cooler I included should be plenty quiet, but if you want to go for the best, Be Quiet! and Noctua have some truly great ones. The 1080Ti I included should be among the quietest out there without going for some 80+ Titanium rated unit for twice the price. Same goes for the PSU. And even with a bunch of USB devices, you don't need more than 750W, no matter what.

 

[Ancalagon44]

One thing to bear in mind regarding cases - airflow is the most important thing when it comes to silence. Which means you need a relatively open case with at least a few fans. It sounds paradoxical when you consider that everyone is now marketing cases with sound deadening panels to try to make them quieter. The problem with such cases is that they tend to have poor airflow, which means that you fans need to work harder to expel air. Even with sound deadening, fans running at a higher RPM will be a lot more noticeable.

Also note that more modern technology (GPUs, CPU coolers and PSUs) tend to have the ability to have the fans completely off if your power usage is low. So, if you aren't doing anything too demanding, no fans will spin at all. When you start doing something hectic like video encoding or playing a game, your fans will spin up. This also means that if you are doing some light gaming or playing older games, your fans probably won't switch on. But bear in mind that this technology is not on all components, although it is on most. I have a SuperFlower 550W Leadex II Silver PSU that has it, and my HIS AMD Radeon 480 also has it. Their fans only start spinning once the temperature reaches 60 degrees Celsius.

If you are looking for a stable build right out of the box, I'd buy Intel. I say this as an AMD fan - I have only ever purchased two Intel CPUs in my entire life, and have purchased 5 AMD CPUs, 3 AMD GPUs and 1 ATI GPUs. Right now, Ryzen is too new, and to get the best out of it, you might have to fiddle and tweak. If you don't want to do that, then buy Intel. As Valantar says, it isn't that Ryzen is unstable and crashes every day, it seems to mostly relate to overclocking and using high memory clocks. You could either wait a few months before purchasing, or purchase Intel.

Also note that using Ryzen + Nvidia GPU doesn't mean you will get crashes. It just means that, in certain games, you might not get as much performance as you should. But, with a 1800X and a 1080Ti, you would be unlikely to notice. You might get 75 FPS when you should be getting 90 FPS, that sort of thing.

I personally would not purchase a 1080Ti as I feel that, at that end of the market, value for money is poor. I'd rather get a 1080 now. Remember that you could spend the difference in price at the end of next year on a new GPU, and get better performance than a 1080Ti. I know you want a PC to last a long time, but the reality is that the margins on the top end components is absurdly high. The value for money is not great. And, GPUs are some of the easiest components to swap out.

A little anecdote. In 2007, I purchased an 8800 GTS. It had a bigger brother, the 8800 GTX, which was quite a bit faster and more expensive. My 8800 GTS was still amazingly powerful for the time, and it served me well. 3 years later, I upgraded to an AMD Radeon 5770. The 8800 GTS was at the time the second most powerful card money could buy, the most powerful being the 8800 GTX. The 5770 was something like the 4th or 5th powerful card money could buy, it was nowhere near the top. And it absolutely wiped the floor with the 8800 GTS in every single metric and in every single game. Its just how technology works. And I think the 5770 cost something like half what the 8800 GTS cost.

By the time the 5770 came along, the difference between the 8800 GTS and 8800 GTX in games of the time was like 4 FPS. One might get 25 FPS, the other might get 29 FPS. A big difference back in the day translated into a "who cares?" three years later.

 

[Valantar]

One thing to bear in mind regarding cases - airflow is the most important thing when it comes to silence. Which means you need a relatively open case with at least a few fans. It sounds paradoxical when you consider that everyone is now marketing cases with sound deadening panels to try to make them quieter. The problem with such cases is that they tend to have poor airflow, which means that you fans need to work harder to expel air. Even with sound deadening, fans running at a higher RPM will be a lot more noticeable.

I wholeheartedly disagree with this. While it's true that "nose isolated" cases like the ones I linked are more restrictive and thus perform worse thermally, the difference is usually more than made up for by said insulation. Not to mention that open-air cases gather dust like crazy, are impossible to create consistent airflow or positive pressure in (without custom ducting or a heap of fans), and let out every single noise made by any and all components. "Quiet" cases are quieter for the vast majority of use cases, and require far less tuning for this to be true.

Also note that more modern technology (GPUs, CPU coolers and PSUs) tend to have the ability to have the fans completely off if your power usage is low. So, if you aren't doing anything too demanding, no fans will spin at all. When you start doing something hectic like video encoding or playing a game, your fans will spin up. This also means that if you are doing some light gaming or playing older games, your fans probably won't switch on. But bear in mind that this technology is not on all components, although it is on most. I have a SuperFlower 550W Leadex II Silver PSU that has it, and my HIS AMD Radeon 480 also has it. Their fans only start spinning once the temperature reaches 60 degrees Celsius.

This is a good point and well worth pointing out, but pointing out CPU coolers in this context is at best misleading - the number of "semi-passive" CPU coolers out there can pretty much be counted on one hand, and none of them are high-performance units. Besides, in a noise-insulated case you likely can't tell the difference between a 600rpm 120mm/140mm fan and one that's off. As for the others, any PSU worth its salt these days has a semi-passive mode that keeps the fan off until ~25-30% load (some are thermally regulated, but most go by load). This includes the Supernova G3 I linked (called "Eco mode" for some inane reason), and pretty much every non-garbage unit from a semi-reputable maker these days. Same goes for GPUs - outside of the very basic models, they all have "fan off" modes up until a certain temperature. Even with a big, hot chip like the 1080Ti, it's dead quiet at idle or low loads.

If you are looking for a stable build right out of the box, I'd buy Intel. I say this as an AMD fan - I have only ever purchased two Intel CPUs in my entire life, and have purchased 5 AMD CPUs, 3 AMD GPUs and 1 ATI GPUs. Right now, Ryzen is too new, and to get the best out of it, you might have to fiddle and tweak. If you don't want to do that, then buy Intel. As Valantar says, it isn't that Ryzen is unstable and crashes every day, it seems to mostly relate to overclocking and using high memory clocks. You could either wait a few months before purchasing, or purchase Intel.

It sounds like you're contradicting yourself here. "Ryzen is only unstable if you OC or run fast RAM" and "If you want stable out of the box, buy Intel" are contradictory sentences. From keeping up with the Ryzen builders' thread over in CPUs and general reading, my impression is that any Ryzen build OOTB is just as stable as any Intel build, bar the occasional inexplicable error. The difference is marginal at best. My recommendation: Buy Ryzen + fast RAM, but leave the RAM at whatever speed it defaults to for now. Then, after a few BIOS and microcode updates, ramp up RAM speed. That's a win-win situation.

Also note that using Ryzen + Nvidia GPU doesn't mean you will get crashes. It just means that, in certain games, you might not get as much performance as you should. But, with a 1800X and a 1080Ti, you would be unlikely to notice. You might get 75 FPS when you should be getting 90 FPS, that sort of thing.

Again, that sounds like an extreme example. I haven't seen a single example of a 17% drop like that. Of course, Ryzen does perform a few percent worse in games than, say, a 7700K (while trouncing it in productivity tasks). Compounded with AMD GPU drivers probably being better optimized for the system than Nvidia's, I suppose you might see 10% drops in some cases. But that would be the exception, not the rule.

I personally would not purchase a 1080Ti as I feel that, at that end of the market, value for money is poor. I'd rather get a 1080 now. Remember that you could spend the difference in price at the end of next year on a new GPU, and get better performance than a 1080Ti. I know you want a PC to last a long time, but the reality is that the margins on the top end components is absurdly high. The value for money is not great. And, GPUs are some of the easiest components to swap out.

A little anecdote. In 2007, I purchased an 8800 GTS. It had a bigger brother, the 8800 GTX, which was quite a bit faster and more expensive. My 8800 GTS was still amazingly powerful for the time, and it served me well. 3 years later, I upgraded to an AMD Radeon 5770. The 8800 GTS was at the time the second most powerful card money could buy, the most powerful being the 8800 GTX. The 5770 was something like the 4th or 5th powerful card money could buy, it was nowhere near the top. And it absolutely wiped the floor with the 8800 GTS in every single metric and in every single game. Its just how technology works. And I think the 5770 cost something like half what the 8800 GTS cost.

By the time the 5770 came along, the difference between the 8800 GTS and 8800 GTX in games of the time was like 4 FPS. One might get 25 FPS, the other might get 29 FPS. A big difference back in the day translated into a "who cares?" three years later.

That is indeed the conventional wisdom, and I tend to agree, but it depends on your budget and target resolution. Anything below 1070-level performance makes no sense in a $2000 PC. And if you're gaming at 1440p or 4k, the perf-per-dollar of the 1080Ti is very competitive: TechPowerUp lists the 1080 at only 4% better perf/$ at 4k, 9% at 1440p, and the 1070 at 20% better at 4k and 28% at 1440. The main difference is that of those, the 1080Ti is the only card that can truly play at 4K, and probably the only one that can play 1440p maxed out in 2-3 years (if that). While the 1070 is again a great GPU, I'd rather go for the Ti right now if I could afford it, as you do get a lot more performance for less than twice the price.

Oh, and "I'd rather get a 1080 now. Remember that you could spend the difference in price at the end of next year on a new GPU, and get better performance than a 1080Ti" seems like wishful thinking at best. The 1070 launched in summer of 2016 - a year after the 980Ti, but really 18 months after the Maxwell architecture. The 1070 matches the 980Ti, but costs around $400, and the perf difference includes a node shrink (which probably isn't happening in the next generation). The 1080 is $499 and up - just $200 less than the Ti. So even with the exceptional perf jump between Maxwell and Pascal, your math doesn't add up, unless you somehow know how to get a 1070 for $200.

 

[Ancalagon44]

Just read this Anandtech.com case review for an example of what I am talking about. Note that I am not comparing open air cases (like test beds) to sound proofed cases. I am comparing regular cases with decent airflow to soundproofed cases with inferior airflow.

If you have a soundproofed case, the only way it will be quieter than a regular case is with low power components that don't produce much heat. Reviews bear this out - the Anandtech one above, and every single other review on sound proofed cases that I have ever read. The better a cases airflow, the more silent it is for power hungry hardware. No exceptions.

Why? Sound proofed cases have to limit air intakes and exhausts in order to limit sound that can leak from a case. When they do that, they limit airflow to such a degree that fans must spin.

As I said, this is fact is borne out my multiple reviews, multiple tests all saying the same thing. Look at reviews of the CoolerMaster Silencio line, for instance. They don't do well with power hungry hardware.

Find me an example of a sound insulated case that is quieter than a non-insulated case when used with power hungry hardware. Just one.

 

[Valantar]

Just read this Anandtech.com case review for an example of what I am talking about. Note that I am not comparing open air cases (like test beds) to sound proofed cases. I am comparing regular cases with decent airflow to soundproofed cases with inferior airflow.

If you have a soundproofed case, the only way it will be quieter than a regular case is with low power components that don't produce much heat. Reviews bear this out - the Anandtech one above, and every single other review on sound proofed cases that I have ever read. The better a cases airflow, the more silent it is for power hungry hardware. No exceptions.

Why? Sound proofed cases have to limit air intakes and exhausts in order to limit sound that can leak from a case. When they do that, they limit airflow to such a degree that fans must spin.

As I said, this is fact is borne out my multiple reviews, multiple tests all saying the same thing. Look at reviews of the CoolerMaster Silencio line, for instance. They don't do well with power hungry hardware.

Find me an example of a sound insulated case that is quieter than a non-insulated case when used with power hungry hardware. Just one.

While this point isn't entirely off, the review you're linking to and the cases you're speaking of are all relatively old. More modern designs like the Define R5 or Silent Base 600 have more room for large, quiet fans and are better optimized for airflow (there's a reason why the R5 is generally considered a "less quiet" case than the R4 - because it has a better airflow balance for high-end hardware while sacrificing absolute silence for those that aim for it). This review of the SB600 shows it performing on par with, for example, the Termaltake Core X9 (and the Corsair Air 540!), which is a very open case indeed.

Not to mention that most soundproofed cases have provisions for blocking off unused vents and the likes, which other cases often neglect, harming both airflow and noise patterns.

My point is this: while it's true that a high airflow case is most likely as quiet or even more quiet at high loads, idle and mid-range loads tend to matter more for user comfort. Why? Because at high loads, you're either gaming (in which case some noise isn't a huge issue even without headphones), or you're running a heavy, time-consuming workload like a video export/render, which is a hands-off/go do something else while you wait type of workload. For low-to-medium loads like video editing (not exporting) and music production, a soundproofed case will be more quiet as they will more effectively block out fan motor noise at low rpms and HDD spindle noise.

 

[Ancalagon44]

While this point isn't entirely off, the review you're linking to and the cases you're speaking of are all relatively old. More modern designs like the Define R5 or Silent Base 600 have more room for large, quiet fans and are better optimized for airflow (there's a reason why the R5 is generally considered a "less quiet" case than the R4 - because it has a better airflow balance for high-end hardware while sacrificing absolute silence for those that aim for it). This review of the SB600 shows it performing on par with, for example, the Termaltake Core X9 (and the Corsair Air 540!), which is a very open case indeed.

Not to mention that most soundproofed cases have provisions for blocking off unused vents and the likes, which other cases often neglect, harming both airflow and noise patterns.

My point is this: while it's true that a high airflow case is most likely as quiet or even more quiet at high loads, idle and mid-range loads tend to matter more for user comfort. Why? Because at high loads, you're either gaming (in which case some noise isn't a huge issue even without headphones), or you're running a heavy, time-consuming workload like a video export/render, which is a hands-off/go do something else while you wait type of workload. For low-to-medium loads like video editing (not exporting) and music production, a soundproofed case will be more quiet as they will more effectively block out fan motor noise at low rpms and HDD spindle noise.

One, a fan not spinning is always quieter than an insulated fan. So, a case with lower temps will more often have its fans not spinning, which means it is quiet more of the time than an insulated case. Sound insulation is also temperature insulation.

Second, the times noise has bothered me has always been, without exception, under high load. If you are playing a game with a build that has poor thermal performance, your fans spin up and that's when you really notice. I don't play with headphones, I don't know if the OP does. I'm unlikely to notice or care about the difference between an insulated and non insulated case when load conditions are low. But under high conditions, I want it as quiet as possible. Because that is when it really bothers me, when it is really most noticeable.

For about 10 years, I had a CoolerMaster WaveMaster case. I later added third party sound insulation to it. Pretty case, but terrible airflow. While playing Doom, I could actually notice the PSU fan struggling to exhaust heat. Doom generally requires a lot of attention to play, and I could notice that fan even while playing, and I sit about 5m/15 feet away from my PC. I play on a TV.

I upgraded my case to a CoolerMaster N500 and my PSU to a SuperFlower 550W Leadex II silver. I can now comfortable sit on my couch and watch Netflix while mining cryptocurrency - the load noise is low enough that I don't notice it most of the time.

That is the difference good airflow makes. Yes, my old Coolermaster Wavemaster is not a good comparison to some of the cases you mentioned - it really had terrible airflow. My point is that, high load is when it counts, and high load is when you want it as quiet as possible.

 

[Valantar]

One, a fan not spinning is always quieter than an insulated fan. So, a case with lower temps will more often have its fans not spinning, which means it is quiet more of the time than an insulated case. Sound insulation is also temperature insulation.

I don't know what motherboards, fans and fan controllers you're using, but you do know that the vast majority of those can't actually stop fans entirely, right? Motherboard PWM controllers usually bottom out at a 30-40% duty cycle. Voltage control usually stops somewhere between 5 and 7 V. Most fan controllers are exactly the same, just less automated. While some fans have been launched in recent years that switch off at 30-40% PWM, those are few and far between.

And besides, all of your examples are of old, poorly optimized cases. For any modern build (i.e. not using an old 300+W GPU (or several) and massively power hungry cpu), modern "quiet" cases provide plentiful airflow while not requiring noticeably higher fan speeds than a less insulated case, and often have better airflow paths due to the possibility of closing off unused vents and the like. This really isn't an issue. And it is after all given that the same amount of noise sources at the same speed will be less audible in a closed off case. Your comments are really only relevant either if the case is bad or the builder doesn't take the time to properly optimize airflow according to the build. Positive pressure + sufficient exhaust to ensure relatively quick removal of hot air gives you a case setup that will handle pretty much anything. And positive pressure is nigh impossible to attain in an open or semi-open case.

Edit: airflow paths, not parts. Damn autocorrect.

 

[lakedude]

IMO at this time the Intel vs AMD thing comes down to multi-threaded vs single-threaded. If you can make use of all those AMD cores a Ryzen is the obvious choice. If single (or lightly threaded) performance is what you need Intel is still the leader in this regard.

For my personal use I doubt I'd make good use of AMD's cores so Intel would most likely be the choice were I in the market. OTOH if I was still doing Folding/BOINC I'd try out a Ryzen CPU for sure.

Czarnybaran5150, assuming your video and music production software can make use many cores the Ryzen would be a temptation to be certain. Some of my old software is single threaded so Ryzen is less of a temptation for me.

BTW I'm also rocking much older hardware than was previously typical because I have a young child who is my world now. I don't have near the time/energy/money to play with computer hardware as I once did. Really the 5 year old Ivy Bridge isn't bad at all. Good luck whatever you decide!

 

[czarnybaran5150]

Once again, you guys are awesome. I'm really enjoying reading your guys discussion on these components. I appreciate all of the insight.

Regarding cases, from my experience, if I had to choose one over the other, my strong preference is to have a case that has very good ventilation with a lot of fans over one that has sound deadening panels. In my first computer build many years ago I bought an expensive Lian Li case that was designed to be very quiet. However, my components repeatedly overheated and the computer would shut down. I hated that case. No matter how many fans or heat sinks were inside that case, the heat was trapped in there.

In my second build, the one I have right now that lasted eight years, I got an Antec case that allowed ventilation through the front, back and the top - and in eight years that computer never shut down once from overheating. So with that said, do you guys have any preference or recommendations on cases that have a great ventilation?

Valantar, you asked earlier if I was willing to expand my budget, and yes I am. I won't let a a few hundred bucks hold me back from building the best PC I can. Again, I still want to be sensible, but I'm not afraid to spend if I need to.

I did see that AMD was coming out with the Vega to compete with the 1080 TI. From the looks of it it's going to be released on June 5, but apparently they're only 16,000 units available for the first launch which means it's probably gonna be really hard to get one, which is inevitably going to delay building this computer even further if that's what I want to do. But that's always the game isn't it? LOL. There's always something new around the corner people want to wait for.

So Lakedude (hey! kind of touched on the issue that I'm struggling with. Should I just stay with Intel and get a 1080 TI? Or is it safe enough to get a Ryzen and pair it with the 1080 TI? Or do I hold my cards and roll the dice and build a pure AMD system and get a Ryzen and try to get my hands on a Vega card in the next 2 months? I would love your guys thoughts. Thanks!

 

[lakedude]

So Lakedude (hey! kind of touched on the issue that I'm struggling with. Should I just stay with Intel and get a 1080 TI? Or is it safe enough to get a Ryzen and pair it with the 1080 TI? Or do I hold my cards and roll the dice and build a pure AMD system and get a Ryzen and try to get my hands on a Vega card in the next 2 months? I would love your guys thoughts. Thanks!

It wouldn't kill you to wait and see what is coming so soon, relatively speaking. These big jumps in performance are only happening every few years now and AMD is poised to make a big jump very soon. Even if you decide not to go AMD the competition should put downward pressure on nVidia's prices.

For my money the i7-7700k @ $300 (Micro Center) is looking sweet and it is a little cheaper than even the Ryzen 1700 @ $320 at this point. I'm not ripping on the AMD chip, as I said, if your software can use all the cores the Ryzen is awesome. Do you know how well your software scales across multiple cores? Maybe list your software and let some of the experts explain how well the Ryzen might work for you. It really comes down to your usage/software.

 

[czarnybaran5150]

For this computer I will be using Cubase for music production, Adobe Premiere for my Youtube Channel, Microsoft Word for business, and of course I plan on playing video games when my life allows LOL

 

[lakedude]

I just did a bit of reading and it does not look like vega based enthusiast cards will be available until a bit later. The first cards out will likely be very expensive "compute" cards.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/11403/amd-unveils-the-radeon-vega-frontier-edition

 

[Oyeve]

Wow, AMD-vs-Intel is still alive and well I see!