Afghanistan is getting out of hand

Dari

Lifer
Oct 25, 2002
17,134
38
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Karzai (the guy with the funny hat) seems to be twiddling his fingers while his country slowly slide back into chaos. And we are mainly focused on Iraq. A couple of weeks ago, Lindsey Graham (a man), chairman of McCain's election campaign, blamed the violence on NATO (the Europeans). Pretty soon we'll have the first state in the world that exports narcotics and terrorism. All this while everybody blames each other.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7492601.stm

A suicide bomber has rammed a car full of explosives into the gates of the Indian embassy in the Afghan capital, killing 41 people and injuring 141.

Five embassy personnel were killed - India's defence attache, a senior diplomat and two security guards - as well as an Afghan man.

Five Afghans died at Indonesia's embassy nearby.

No-one has admitted being behind the attack, one of the deadliest in Kabul since the Taleban overthrow in 2001.

Afghanistan has seen a sharp increase in violence, particularly in the south and east - and Taleban militants recently vowed to step up their attacks in the capital.

But the latest blast - in what was supposed to be a secure area of Kabul - will greatly concern Afghan government officials, says the BBC's Martin Patience in Kabul.

President Hamid Karzai said the attackers wanted to rupture good relations between Afghanistan and India.

India also condemned the "cowardly terrorists' attack", but vowed it would not be deterred from fulfilling its commitment to the government and people of Afghanistan.

The US condemned the "needless act of violence", as did the European Union, which described it as a "terrorist attack targeting innocent civilians".

The bomb exploded as people were queuing for visas at the embassy.

"We were standing in a line to get visas, the police told us to stand on one side, the women were in another line, then suddenly I heard a huge bang and I sat down. I was very afraid," Khan Zaman said.

Ali Hassan Fahimi said shrapnel had landed in his office, which is close to the site of the blast.

"It was so strong... and our staff were shocked," he said.

India has close ties with Afghanistan. It is involved in aid and reconstruction work, including the building of Afghanistan's new parliament.

Afghan Foreign Minister Rangeen Dadfar Spanta visited the Indian embassy shortly after the attack, his spokesman Sultan Ahmed Baheen said.

"India and Afghanistan have a deep relationship between each other. Such attacks of the enemy will not harm our relations," Mr Spanta told the personnel at the embassy, the spokesman said.

And the Indian government spokesman said: "Such acts of terror will not deter us from fulfilling our commitments to the government and people of Afghanistan."

Afghanistan's interior ministry said it believed the attack was carried out "in coordination and consultation with an active intelligence service in the region".

It did not specify. But in the past, Afghanistan has accused Pakistani agents of being behind a number of attacks on its soil.

In a statement, Pakistan's foreign minister said his country "condemns terrorism in all its forms and manifestations".

 

ericlp

Diamond Member
Dec 24, 2000
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Just think how crazy it's gonna get when the nut cases start bombing Iran.
 

Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
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Originally posted by: Dari
A couple of weeks ago, Lindsey Graham (a man), chairman of McCain's election campaign, blamed the violence on NATO (the Europeans).
Figures, blame the Euro's when the truth of the matter is we took our eye off of the real war on Terrorism with the NeoCons ill conceived invasion and occupation of Iraq. Another thing that can be added to the very long list of Bush fuck ups as President.

 

nageov3t

Lifer
Feb 18, 2004
42,816
83
91
seemed to me like this was kind of Pakistan attacking India more than anything else.
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,095
513
126
I enjoy people still spreading BS about us not being able to "focus" on two places at once. With the military we have today how can we not? We managed to such a thing in WWII. I fail to see how we cant do it today.

The bottom line is we are in the same situation as the Soviets were back in the 1980's. Pakistan is safe harboring the Taliban and we cant do squat about it. It wont end until Pakistan knocks them out or we disregard Pakistan and do it ourselves.
 

Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
57,530
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Originally posted by: Genx87
I enjoy people still spreading BS about us not being able to "focus" on two places at once. With the military we have today how can we not? We managed to such a thing in WWII. I fail to see how we cant do it today.

The bottom line is we are in the same situation as the Soviets were back in the 1980's. Pakistan is safe harboring the Taliban and we cant do squat about it. It wont end until Pakistan knocks them out or we disregard Pakistan and do it ourselves.
Yeah having more resources on the border of Pakistan would help prevent the Taliban from launching attacks across the border into Afghanistan:roll:
 

Dari

Lifer
Oct 25, 2002
17,134
38
91
Originally posted by: Genx87
I enjoy people still spreading BS about us not being able to "focus" on two places at once. With the military we have today how can we not? We managed to such a thing in WWII. I fail to see how we cant do it today.

The bottom line is we are in the same situation as the Soviets were back in the 1980's. Pakistan is safe harboring the Taliban and we cant do squat about it. It wont end until Pakistan knocks them out or we disregard Pakistan and do it ourselves.

We're obviously not focusing on Afghanistan. Just because we can do something doesn't mean we're doing anything. Anyways, your point is moot considering the people you support aren't interested in your crazy ideas of doing something about Pakistan. They're worried about Iran.
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
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Suicide bombers are the hardest to stop.

There is no value to life, therefore logical preventive planning can fail.
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,095
513
126
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Originally posted by: Genx87
I enjoy people still spreading BS about us not being able to "focus" on two places at once. With the military we have today how can we not? We managed to such a thing in WWII. I fail to see how we cant do it today.

The bottom line is we are in the same situation as the Soviets were back in the 1980's. Pakistan is safe harboring the Taliban and we cant do squat about it. It wont end until Pakistan knocks them out or we disregard Pakistan and do it ourselves.
Yeah having more resources on the border of Pakistan would help prevent the Taliban from launching attacks across the border into Afghanistan:roll:

Ha, that border is how long again? We cant stop people from coming across our own border's. How do you expect us to stop the Taliban? We could put a million troops on that border and they would still find a way.

Focus has nothing to do with it. Them having a free base of operations within Pakistan does.

We're obviously not focusing on Afghanistan. Just because we can do something doesn't mean we're doing anything. Anyways, your point is moot considering the people you support aren't interested in your crazy ideas of doing something about Pakistan. They're worried about Iran.

And you think if we put 100% focus on Afghanistan it would magically change the situation in Pakistan?

Right, they(the candidate I support) is going to do as much to Iran as the candidate who said he would use everything within his power to keep Iran nuclear weapons free. That is politicspeak for "nothing except talk a lot and let Israel do the worlds dirty work".

 

Dari

Lifer
Oct 25, 2002
17,134
38
91
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Originally posted by: Genx87
I enjoy people still spreading BS about us not being able to "focus" on two places at once. With the military we have today how can we not? We managed to such a thing in WWII. I fail to see how we cant do it today.

The bottom line is we are in the same situation as the Soviets were back in the 1980's. Pakistan is safe harboring the Taliban and we cant do squat about it. It wont end until Pakistan knocks them out or we disregard Pakistan and do it ourselves.
Yeah having more resources on the border of Pakistan would help prevent the Taliban from launching attacks across the border into Afghanistan:roll:

Ha, that border is how long again? We cant stop people from coming across our own border's. How do you expect us to stop the Taliban? We could put a million troops on that border and they would still find a way.

Focus has nothing to do with it. Them having a free base of operations within Pakistan does.

We're obviously not focusing on Afghanistan. Just because we can do something doesn't mean we're doing anything. Anyways, your point is moot considering the people you support aren't interested in your crazy ideas of doing something about Pakistan. They're worried about Iran.

And you think if we put 100% focus on Afghanistan it would magically change the situation in Pakistan?

Right, they(the candidate I support) is going to do as much to Iran as the candidate who said he would use everything within his power to keep Iran nuclear weapons free. That is politicspeak for "nothing except talk a lot and let Israel do the worlds dirty work".

Yeah, keep making excuses for your political masters. I really want to know who you'll blame if they strike inside America again.
 

Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
57,530
3
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Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Originally posted by: Genx87
I enjoy people still spreading BS about us not being able to "focus" on two places at once. With the military we have today how can we not? We managed to such a thing in WWII. I fail to see how we cant do it today.

The bottom line is we are in the same situation as the Soviets were back in the 1980's. Pakistan is safe harboring the Taliban and we cant do squat about it. It wont end until Pakistan knocks them out or we disregard Pakistan and do it ourselves.
Yeah having more resources on the border of Pakistan would help prevent the Taliban from launching attacks across the border into Afghanistan:roll:

Ha, that border is how long again? We cant stop people from coming across our own border's.

No shit Sherlock, how many troops do we have along it? Just a few lightly armed Border Patrolman


How do you expect us to stop the Taliban? We could put a million troops on that border and they would still find a way.
LOL, that's bullshit.

Anyway If we would have concentrated on Afghanistan instead of losing our focus by invading and occupying Iraq we would have been able to deal a much harder blow to the Taliban, kept the heat on them and made it much more difficult for them to transverse the border between Pakisland and Afghanistan

Focus has nothing to do with it. Them having a free base of operations within Pakistan does.
I think President Shit for Brains and his NeoCon handlers were Free Basing when they decided to take their focus off of the real war on terror and invade Iraq.
 

Braznor

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 2005
4,497
349
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Originally posted by: Red Dawn
I think President Shit for Brains and his NeoCon handlers were Free Basing when they decided to take their focus off of the real war on terror and invade Iraq.


What about the left providing excuses to Pakistan being a victim of terror?
 

Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
57,530
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Originally posted by: Braznor
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
I think President Shit for Brains and his NeoCon handlers were Free Basing when they decided to take their focus off of the real war on terror and invade Iraq.


What about the left providing excuses to Pakistan being a victim of terror?
What about that?
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
20,984
3
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For all the bitching, moaning, and complaining some pro GWB war on terror types about needing to widen this Aghani Occupation into Pakistan because they can't control the cross border trickle of supplies, this attack, the third major one of just this type in recent months, occurred in the middle of beautiful downtown Kabul. And the thread title, Afghanistan getting out of hand, is somewhat of a misnomer, its been out of hand for at least the past four years in terms of the return of the Taliban. And in each of the four years, each year seems worse than the last. And as we see, 2008 is especially bad. Looking to the future, Winter does tend to put a general crimp on mobility and hence general threat level, but the down side is that we are just half way through this year's cycle of increased violence. And in terms of US troop deaths, Afghanistan is now where the most US troop deaths occur and Iraq is now in second place.

In terms of the this specific attack, it is now and may remain a who done it, but Iraq and Afghanistan do have their commonalities in MHO. GWB&co. may try to feed us the party line that we are fighting a war on terrorism, but I maintain, we are fighting the very anarchy we brought with two poorly planning and bungled occupations. And the USA will continue to fail until we address the root causes of anarchy and chaos which cannot be accomplished with occupations done on the cheap. Its a battle for the hearts and minds of the occupied people and GWB&co my way of the highway is flopping in the free market place of ideas. Which does not even mention life got much much worse since we darkened their door. Gee, everyone should be lucky enough to live right inside of a shooting gallery.
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,095
513
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Originally posted by: Dari
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Originally posted by: Genx87
I enjoy people still spreading BS about us not being able to "focus" on two places at once. With the military we have today how can we not? We managed to such a thing in WWII. I fail to see how we cant do it today.

The bottom line is we are in the same situation as the Soviets were back in the 1980's. Pakistan is safe harboring the Taliban and we cant do squat about it. It wont end until Pakistan knocks them out or we disregard Pakistan and do it ourselves.
Yeah having more resources on the border of Pakistan would help prevent the Taliban from launching attacks across the border into Afghanistan:roll:

Ha, that border is how long again? We cant stop people from coming across our own border's. How do you expect us to stop the Taliban? We could put a million troops on that border and they would still find a way.

Focus has nothing to do with it. Them having a free base of operations within Pakistan does.

We're obviously not focusing on Afghanistan. Just because we can do something doesn't mean we're doing anything. Anyways, your point is moot considering the people you support aren't interested in your crazy ideas of doing something about Pakistan. They're worried about Iran.

And you think if we put 100% focus on Afghanistan it would magically change the situation in Pakistan?

Right, they(the candidate I support) is going to do as much to Iran as the candidate who said he would use everything within his power to keep Iran nuclear weapons free. That is politicspeak for "nothing except talk a lot and let Israel do the worlds dirty work".

Yeah, keep making excuses for your political masters. I really want to know who you'll blame if they strike inside America again.

Is this the internet msgboard equivalent of "I am taking my toys home with me" response?

LOL, that's bullshit.

Anyway If we would have concentrated on Afghanistan instead of losing our focus by invading and occupying Iraq we would have been able to deal a much harder blow to the Taliban, kept the heat on them and made it much more difficult for them to transverse the border between Pakisland and Afghanistan

Is this reply supposed to be taken serious? Perhaps you forgot we were in Afghanistan by Nov of 2001. ~17 months before the Iraqi invasion?

So what is your plan? 1 million US troops in Afghanistan to keep the Taliban out? And you think Iraq costs a lot of money?

I think President Shit for Brains and his NeoCon handlers were Free Basing when they decided to take their focus off of the real war on terror and invade Iraq.

I cant disagree with you they were freebasing nor that Bush has shit where his brains should be. But to think the Iraqi invasion had\has any affect on the Taliban in Pakistan is silly. We are more than capable of focusing on two fronts. The issue isnt focus, the issue is the Taliban have safe harbor in Pakistan. No amount of focus is going to change that fact.

 

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,563
9
81
Originally posted by: Genx87
I enjoy people still spreading BS about us not being able to "focus" on two places at once. With the military we have today how can we not? We managed to such a thing in WWII. I fail to see how we cant do it today.

In WWII, there was no question about where the enemy was. "Oh look, there's a German panzer brigade. Guess that's where the Germans are."

In Afghanistan, we have to have soldier stationed in every outhouse and chicken coop just in case a "terrorist" pops up.

Yeah, there's a difference.
 

Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
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Originally posted by: Genx87
So what is your plan? 1 million US troops in Afghanistan to keep the Taliban out? And you think Iraq costs a lot of money?
You're the one who brought up that number, not me.

I definitely believe if we hadn't of invaded and occupied Iraq things would be a lot different now in Afghanistan and for the better.
 

Braznor

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 2005
4,497
349
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Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Originally posted by: Braznor
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
I think President Shit for Brains and his NeoCon handlers were Free Basing when they decided to take their focus off of the real war on terror and invade Iraq.


What about the left providing excuses to Pakistan being a victim of terror?
What about that?

Without Pakistan having madrasas where the Taliban grew, you wouldn't have had these problems at all.

Now I'm not denying your President Shit for Brains screwed up big time by invading Iraq. What I'm saying is that between the left providing excuses to Islamists movements in Asia and elsewhere and the mess that is the Iraq invasion, your fight against terror was futile either way.

Unless you can name the source of terror, you cannot cut the head of the serpent. Until then, Afghanistan is destined to just remain as a never ending shooting gallery, i.e they keep coming from the borders and you keep shooting them.
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,095
513
126
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Originally posted by: Genx87
So what is your plan? 1 million US troops in Afghanistan to keep the Taliban out? And you think Iraq costs a lot of money?
You're the one who brought up that number, not me.

I definitely believe if we hadn't of invaded and occupied Iraq things would be a lot different now in Afghanistan and for the better.

I fail to see how that happens when your enemy has free reign in another country.
 

Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
57,530
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Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Originally posted by: Genx87
So what is your plan? 1 million US troops in Afghanistan to keep the Taliban out? And you think Iraq costs a lot of money?
You're the one who brought up that number, not me.

I definitely believe if we hadn't of invaded and occupied Iraq things would be a lot different now in Afghanistan and for the better.

I fail to see how that happens when your enemy has free reign in another country.
By making their ability to operate in Afghanistan nearly impossible.

 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,095
513
126
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Originally posted by: Genx87
So what is your plan? 1 million US troops in Afghanistan to keep the Taliban out? And you think Iraq costs a lot of money?
You're the one who brought up that number, not me.

I definitely believe if we hadn't of invaded and occupied Iraq things would be a lot different now in Afghanistan and for the better.

I fail to see how that happens when your enemy has free reign in another country.
By making their ability to operate in Afghanistan nearly impossible.

Heh history has shown this is nearly impossible. Just as current situation is proving this true as well. They regroup and keep coming at you. They have the will and the free reign. All we have is public opinion which has run its course.

We tried this in Vietnam and it failed. The Soviets tried this in Afghanistan 25 years ago and failed. There are other examples out there as well. Until they are taken care of on the Pakistan side of the border. We wont ever be able to control what they do in Afghanistan with any efficiency. Everyday you read stories about how we clear a village and they come back. Gee, never heard that before(vietcong, Insurgents in Iraq, ect).
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
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As per usual, Genx87 manages to get things only about 1/4 right and for all the wrong reasons when he posts---The issue isnt focus, the issue is the Taliban have safe harbor in Pakistan. No amount of focus is going to change that fact.

No Genx87, the issue is that the Taliban has safe harbor inside of Afghanistan. The Taliban are largely a home grown movement and are indistinguishable with the Afghan people.
They don't wear little hats with T's on them or T shirts saying I am Taliban, kill me now. And right now all of Afghanistan is seething with anger over a US airstrike that even crazy Karzai is saying was a wedding party.