Afghanistan having troubles with their constitution. UPDATE: Karzai got his way, constition passed

Feb 3, 2001
5,156
0
0
I'd be curious to read their constitution. I'm glad their getting to it; I hope that instead of focusing on religious and cultural claptrap that it focuses on the natural rights of the citizens ;)

Jason
 
Feb 3, 2001
5,156
0
0
I think they should model their constitution off the U.S. Constitution, but adding in clauses that state "Congress shall make no law abridging the freedom of trade" and "Congress shall make no law interfering with the Common Law Right to Earn a Living."

Jason
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,872
4,216
126
Originally posted by: DragonMasterAlex
I think they should model their constitution off the U.S. Constitution, but adding in clauses that state "Congress shall make no law abridging the freedom of trade" and "Congress shall make no law interfering with the Common Law Right to Earn a Living."

Jason
I think you should go there and tell them in person what they should do. You know best after all.
 

NesuD

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
4,999
106
106
Writing a constitution is tough to do and get everyone to agree on it. Look how long it actually took us to get our constitution hammered out. The main articles were done in 1787 but it took four more years before the bill of rights was added.
 
Feb 3, 2001
5,156
0
0
Originally posted by: NesuD
Writing a constitution is tough to do and get everyone to agree on it. Look how long it actually took us to get our constitution hammered out. The main articles were done in 1787 but it took four more years before the bill of rights was added.
You're absolutely right, it's no easy task at all, and it takes men of *exceptional* intelligence, education and character to build a constitution that is proper for a free people.

Winston, I hate to say this but, you're a moron. I never said I had all the answers, but the fact of the matter is that it is PRECISELY our constitution that has guided the United States to become the richest, freest nation on earth.

Jason
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,872
4,216
126
Originally posted by: DragonMasterAlex
Originally posted by: NesuD
Writing a constitution is tough to do and get everyone to agree on it. Look how long it actually took us to get our constitution hammered out. The main articles were done in 1787 but it took four more years before the bill of rights was added.
You're absolutely right, it's no easy task at all, and it takes men of *exceptional* intelligence, education and character to build a constitution that is proper for a free people.

Winston, I hate to say this but, you're a moron. I never said I had all the answers, but the fact of the matter is that it is PRECISELY our constitution that has guided the United States to become the richest, freest nation on earth.

Jason
Tisk, tisk you love to say it. Be honest with your feelings.

I was thinking about your qualities as a human being, your selflessness, your acceptence of how others in need should be helped, and I came to the conclusion that this country would be better off with you in Iraq, or anywhere else. Frankly, I don't like you, and I am sure the feeling is mutual.

Our consitiution was drafted my men who WANTED a united country and had common purpose. I was about as ideal a situation as could practically imagined. We did it. No outside coercion. Iraq isnt like the US, it's like the Balkans. Waiting to fragment, because it was never a natural country. It exists because of the last "liberation" from the Ottoman Empire, who were smart enough to pretty much ignore it. Holding up a piece of paper isnt going to do a damned thing in Iraq. The best thing would be to see how groups interact and then let the region divide naturally with as little chaos as possible.
 

dahunan

Lifer
Jan 10, 2002
18,191
3
0
Religious People who hate other Religious People... leave them alone and let them all kill each other and make their God Proud :p
 
Feb 3, 2001
5,156
0
0
Originally posted by: WinstonSmith
Tisk, tisk you love to say it. Be honest with your feelings.

I was thinking about your qualities as a human being, your selflessness, your acceptence of how others in need should be helped, and I came to the conclusion that this country would be better off with you in Iraq, or anywhere else. Frankly, I don't like you, and I am sure the feeling is mutual.

Our consitiution was drafted my men who WANTED a united country and had common purpose. I was about as ideal a situation as could practically imagined. We did it. No outside coercion. Iraq isnt like the US, it's like the Balkans. Waiting to fragment, because it was never a natural country. It exists because of the last "liberation" from the Ottoman Empire, who were smart enough to pretty much ignore it. Holding up a piece of paper isnt going to do a damned thing in Iraq. The best thing would be to see how groups interact and then let the region divide naturally with as little chaos as possible.
I'll thank you never to call me "selfless" again; I find that to be a disgusting term that implies nothing more than a lack of any form of personal value, and I'm afraid that simply *isn't* me.

You're right that the Founding Fathers wanted a united nation; that doesn't mean that all the people in all the colonies, who were divided by race, religion and even national origin (where even WHITE people couldn't get along with each other because of their national and cultural pride issues...), but even so the founder forged on and created something that was greater than the sum of its parts. You are wrong, however, to say that it involved no outside coercion or influence; it was precisely because of the long series of abuses by George III that the Founding Fathers decided to "overthrow" their government and institute new government. They did not simply get up one morning and decide it would be the nice thing to do. The people who are to be the new founders of Iraq's new government have a similar opportunity.

Your example of Iraq "waiting to fragment" is both flawed and yet holds a grain of truth. Iraq IS waiting to break because of its long-held culture of religious intolerance and in-fighting between different tribes. They are not "united" under a common banner that guarantees the freedom of everyone to mind their own lives and consciences, which is precisely what they need right now. The starting point is a constitution that will empower the government to protect those needs but to otherwise leave the Iraqi people free to pursue their own interests, restraining them only from harming one another. Education is needed to teach the Iraqi people the virtues of religious tolerance and natural rights and freedom. It is precisely in this capacity that they NEED a people like the Americans to help them through this process. It won't be easy, and mistakes will be made, you simply have to accept that as part of the process. The same holds true in Afghanistan, which is where this discussion started, thanks for derailing it a bit, and if we can help there, we should do so.

To say we should just "watch and see what happens" is foolishness at best. We all know what will happen: religious fighting between the various tribes will begin again, and there will be a whole lot of chaos, not "as little as possible." Where did you find that nonsense?

As for whether you like me or not, I frankly don't give a damn. I've got better things to do than worry about whether some shmuck on a message board likes me or not.

Jason
 

Dari

Lifer
Oct 25, 2002
17,134
38
91
Originally posted by: dahunan
Religious People who hate other Religious People... leave them alone and let them all kill each other and make their God Proud :p
That is the power of imaginary friends.
 

ASK THE COMMUNITY