Afghan militants in US uniforms storm 2 NATO bases

[Infohawk]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100828/ap_on_re_as/as_afghanistan

By ROBERT H. REID, Associated Press Writer – 19 mins ago
KABUL, Afghanistan – U.S. and Afghan troops repelled attackers wearing American uniforms and suicide vests in a pair of simultaneous assaults before dawn Saturday on NATO bases near the Pakistani border, including one where seven CIA employees died in a suicide attack last year.
The raids appear part of an insurgent strategy to step up attacks in widely scattered parts of the country as the U.S. focuses its resources on the battle around the Taliban's southern birthplace of Kandahar.
Also Saturday, three more American service members were killed — two in a bombing in the south and the third in fighting in eastern Afghanistan, the U.S. command said. That brought to 38 the number of U.S. troops killed this month — well below last month's figure of 66.
The militant assault in the border province of Khost began about 4 a.m. when dozens of insurgents stormed Forward Operating Base Salerno and nearby Camp Chapman with mortars, rocket-propelled grenades and automatic weapons, according to NATO and Afghan police.
Two attackers managed to breach the wire protecting Salerno but were killed before they could advance far onto the base, NATO said. Twenty-one attackers were killed — 15 at Salerno and six at Chapman — and five were captured, it said.
Three more insurgents, including a commander, were killed in an airstrike as they fled the area, NATO said.

Looks like they were failed attacks. But the question remains, is Afghanistan winnable in any meaningful way?

 

[PeshakJang]

I just got back from Khost... Chapman has taken a beating the last year.

Problem is, the bad guys in that area all live in Pakistan, and have the protection of the PK army.

That, and the national government gives absolutely zero support to the region... Khost, like a lot of the outlying provinces, is basically its own country.

 

[ShawnD1]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100828/ap_on_re_as/as_afghanistan



Looks like they were failed attacks. But the question remains, is Afghanistan winnable in any meaningful way?

u r doing it wrong. If you want to win, you need to capture the entire country. No one shall be given food unless they are in the service of the Wermacht.


Anyway, no you can't win. The lives of extreme muslims have no value at all. There was a video posted a few months ago where it was shot from the perspective of Afghan insurgents shooting at Americans. When some of them get hit, they can be heard yelling something to the effect of "martyr, martyr!" They do not care if they die or not. They could be rounded up and put into death camps and they still would not care. To them, dying is like the ultimate goal in life because heaven is so much better than earth, especially if you live in a shit hole like Afghanistan.

 

[PeshakJang]

heaven is so much better than earth, especially if you live in a shit hole like Afghanistan.

Also, this.

 

[nick1985]

We need to leave

 

[Triumph]

spent a couple of weeks in salerno, it was attacked about a week after i left (in 2008). for some reason that place attracts head on assaults.

 

[Lemon law]

I just got back from Khost... Chapman has taken a beating the last year.

Problem is, the bad guys in that area all live in Pakistan, and have the protection of the PK army.

That, and the national government gives absolutely zero support to the region... Khost, like a lot of the outlying provinces, is basically its own country.

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As usual Pershak understands nothing.

Nato is simply in competition with the Taliban, and its not so much that Nato is unable to compete, its a matter that Nato does everything to shoot itself in the foot.

Nato has been there, done tried that, and filling body bags with Taliban has not worked.

Meanwhile Nato tries to sell a turd of a Afghan government which is a deal killer, Nato since day one has been in bed with Afghan government corruption, and because the American people will not commit the required 620,000 troops, and the aid and development money, Nato can not hold on to a square inch of Afghan territory to start building anything out of.

So instead all Nato can do is play wackomole, going place to place, making the lives of the Afghan people miserable, with the goal of only temporarily driving the Taliban out of a given area.

But the excuse are infinite, blame Pakistan, blame Islam, blame the Afghan people,
but never never never should we blame the anarchy Nato creates and never fixes.

Sadly Shinseki was right and Dumsfeld was wrong, in a military occupation you have to go big or stay at home. Nato went small, stupid, and incompetent and fails as a result. As for me, even at this late date I think Afghanistan can be salvaged, but there are going to have to be radical changes in Nato strategy and the USA will have to pony up the resources.

Failing that, the sooner we get out the better.

 

[Craig234]

especially if you live in a shit hole like Afghanistan.

Ya, too bad we got involved and used them as a pawn, back in the 70's, destroying the better situation they had (drawing the Russians in to help destroy their country).

They used to have a much more 'modern', middle class, prosperous, free nation at least in parts, with more equality for women and other benefits.

Oh no, the government was leftist - we can't have that, it's our right to go in and destroy a country because of our own views and interests.

Not an ounce of apology or regret on our part - we're only 'the good guys' fighting the radical Islamists we helped be able to get into power before.

We need to get a clue about our own foreign policy and develop better values. We COULD do a lot of good in Afghanistan, and we ARE doing some good - but we need less bad in our policy.

 

[Double Trouble]

Personally, I don't think you can win a 'politically correct' war. Either you wage it all the way and do whatever is needed to win, or you wage a nintendo war: no boots on the ground, no us soldiers in harms way, just drones, missiles, copters etc raining death from above. Right now we're fighting the politically correct war, and as usual it ain't working.

 

[Craig234]

Personally, I don't think you can win a 'politically correct' war. Either you wage it all the way and do whatever is needed to win, or you wage a nintendo war: no boots on the ground, no us soldiers in harms way, just drones, missiles, copters etc raining death from above. Right now we're fighting the politically correct war, and as usual it ain't working.

The politically correct war is less bad than the war you suggest.

You are just clueless it seems about the morality and issues of the type of war.

You're a step away from the 'nuke the country and kill them all and then we win' level of commentary, irresponsible about likely having SUPPORTED wars you shouldn't.

As if the stain of killing MORE innocents would somehow wash away your shame of not 'winning' as much as you want. "We killed the whole country and won, big improvement."

 

[5150Joker]

America needs to pack up and GTFO of every country it's in right now whether through occupation or military bases. The military budget needs to be cut by 50%, isolationist policies and currency protectionist policies need to be instituted if the economy is to stabilize. Of course no politician would ever do that because their pockets are lined by CEOs and lobbyists that believe in selling out America for their own gain. They even have the White trash of America (aka Tea Party/Glen Beck/Palin sheep) lined up in support of them--just look at this forum as an example. Too bad we can't create an Israel for white trash and send them on their way to play with their make believe Jesus.

 

[Infohawk]

Too bad we can't create an Israel for white trash and send them on their way to play with their make believe Jesus.

Who would be left in your purified country? You don't seem to want jews, christians, mormons, whites.

 

[5150Joker]

Who would be left in your purified country? You don't seem to want jews, christians, mormons, hindus, muslims.

Any and all races/ethnic groups of intelligent people that don't believe in religious fairytales. IQ must be above 50 so that rules out all the tea party followers but at least they'll have their own version of Israel. Maybe we'll give them Saudi Arabia, it would be a perfect fit. You would be the first one to join this new paradise in the ME next to your Israeli butt buddies.

p.s. fixed your post.

 

[Infohawk]

You would be the first one to join this new paradise in the ME next to your Israeli butt buddies.

Israel's my butt buddy?

 

[Double Trouble]

The politically correct war is less bad than the war you suggest.

You are just clueless it seems about the morality and issues of the type of war.

You're a step away from the 'nuke the country and kill them all and then we win' level of commentary, irresponsible about likely having SUPPORTED wars you shouldn't.

As if the stain of killing MORE innocents would somehow wash away your shame of not 'winning' as much as you want. "We killed the whole country and won, big improvement."

I made no moral judgment as far as what should be done, what would be morally right or any of that stuff. My comments were in regards to our ability to 'win' a war. The bottom line is that we are never going to "win" a war fought the way we're fighting it right now.

Since we know up front going in that we care about civilian casualties and are not willing to just destroy everything in the name of winning, then we should know up front that we can't win. Winning in my mind is defined as achieving whatever strategic goals you set out at the start.

 

[PeshakJang]

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As usual Pershak understands nothing.

Blah blah

It's particularly funny when you say that somebody doesn't know anything, then you go on to show that you're as clueless as you make others out to be.

How many times have you been to Khost, by the way?

Everything in my post is completely accurate. The people of Khost are relatively happy with our being there. A lot of them work for us. The local government gets no support from Kabul, so they are forced to fend for themselves, and rely on ISAF forces for help. The only thing Kabul is good at is shuffling corrupt officials in and out of the province to make sure that nobody gets in trouble, which makes it that much harder to establish legitimate rule of law.

The people of Khost, at least in the major population areas, like ISAF. A lot of them remember the Russian seige and occupation, and know that we are here to help instead of dominate them. The children like us. The teachers like us. The businesses like us. I still have friends in Khost. NATO doesn't create anarchy. NATO is the only thing keeping order in Khost. The police and army are getting stronger every day, and made great strides toward self-sufficiency while I was there.

FYI, the bad guys in Khost are not Taliban, they're mostly Haqqani and some random foreign fighters who just want to come kill Americans... but hey... I guess your little bullshit online blogs don't feed you all the information you need to go argue with people on the internet and not make yourself look like a fool.

Before you open your mouth, make sure you have a clue what you are talking about, kiddo.

 

[Orignal Earl]

America needs to pack up and GTFO of every country it's in right now whether through occupation or military bases. The military budget needs to be cut by 50%, isolationist policies and currency protectionist policies need to be instituted if the economy is to stabilize. Of course no politician would ever do that because their pockets are lined by CEOs and lobbyists that believe in selling out America for their own gain. They even have the White trash of America (aka Tea Party/Glen Beck/Palin sheep) lined up in support of them--just look at this forum as an example. Too bad we can't create an Israel for white trash and send them on their way to play with their make believe Jesus.

Since over 70% of Americans identify themselves as Christians, and let's assume, say another 10% as Jews,Muslims,Mormons etc.
It would probably be a lot easier to create a nation for the rest on some little island somewhere.

 

[Orignal Earl]

Everything in my post is completely accurate. The people of Khost are relatively happy with our being there. A lot of them work for us. The local government gets no support from Kabul, so they are forced to fend for themselves, and rely on ISAF forces for help.

You admit that the people are forced to rely on ISAF forces for help, and are convinced this means they are happy ?

 

[PeshakJang]

You admit that the people are forced to rely on ISAF forces for help, and are convinced this means they are happy ?

The local government is forced to rely on ISAF for support in lieu of their own federal government. If they need supplies, they'll usually come to us after getting no help from Kabul, and then we have to force their Afghan counterparts to do their jobs.

The general population doesn't rely on anybody, for the most part. They've been self-sufficient for centuries. We help the Army and Police provide security, but most of our work there is in support of their government, not the other way around.

I've worked with, spoken with, drank tea with, literally hundreds of local elders, farmers, teachers, etc. People have mixed opinions about how we are going about the mission, but almost everyone says that they are happy we are there.

 

[Orignal Earl]

I've worked with, spoken with, drank tea with, literally hundreds of local elders, farmers, teachers, etc. People have mixed opinions about how we are going about the mission, but almost everyone says that they are happy we are there.

That is part of their customs/religion right?

 

[PeshakJang]

That is part of their customs/religion right?

Drinking tea or lying?

 

[Orignal Earl]

Drinking tea or lying?

Being very hospitable to visitors/strangers.

 

[PeshakJang]

Being very hospitable to visitors/strangers.

It is... but once you get past initial courtesies they'll usually open up and talk to you just like anybody else. Some will tell you to your face that they don't want us there... some will offer you land to come live there forever. It depends on their experiences.

Most of the people who don't want us there are the ones who don't know why we are there. A lot of younger Afghans have been led to believe that Al Qaeda and the Taliban were formed to oppose the American occupation, and that 9/11 was an attack in retaliation for us invading Afghanistan in 2001.

Like I said, it depends on what they think we are there to do. My unit had a great reputation with the locals because we never went anywhere without the police or army. There were agriculture units that are helping build better farms. Reconstruction teams are helping build infrastructure. The main highway through the province to Gardez/Kabul is being completely rebuilt, and will greatly open up the province to the rest of the country.

Things are getting better, and the people there know that. Just like any other country that's stuck in the past, you can't expect peoples' sentiments to change overnight, but they know things are getting better.

 

[Lemon law]

It's particularly funny when you say that somebody doesn't know anything, then you go on to show that you're as clueless as you make others out to be.

How many times have you been to Khost, by the way?

Everything in my post is completely accurate. The people of Khost are relatively happy with our being there. A lot of them work for us. The local government gets no support from Kabul, so they are forced to fend for themselves, and rely on ISAF forces for help. The only thing Kabul is good at is shuffling corrupt officials in and out of the province to make sure that nobody gets in trouble, which makes it that much harder to establish legitimate rule of law.

The people of Khost, at least in the major population areas, like ISAF. A lot of them remember the Russian seige and occupation, and know that we are here to help instead of dominate them. The children like us. The teachers like us. The businesses like us. I still have friends in Khost. NATO doesn't create anarchy. NATO is the only thing keeping order in Khost. The police and army are getting stronger every day, and made great strides toward self-sufficiency while I was there.

FYI, the bad guys in Khost are not Taliban, they're mostly Haqqani and some random foreign fighters who just want to come kill Americans... but hey... I guess your little bullshit online blogs don't feed you all the information you need to go argue with people on the internet and not make yourself look like a fool.

Before you open your mouth, make sure you have a clue what you are talking about, kiddo.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The problem with perspective is that what is semi true in Khost is absolutely false where the bulk of the Afghan people live, namely rural areas.

And its in rural areas where Taliban members are a real presence, they can and will form up a local government, and the Taliban can and will impose taxes. And when Nato comes in to try to expel the Taliban, its the rural Afghans who suddenly find their homes are ground zero in a battlefield. After a few weeks of that, Nato troops go away, the Taliban comes back, rinse and repeat, stir well, for nine years. Its exactly the same anarchy that caused the rise of the Taliban in the first place.

Then I have to love your quote, " FYI, the bad guys in Khost are not Taliban, they're mostly Haqqani and some random foreign fighters who just want to come kill Americans..." As if this is some fairy tale with pure villains and pure good guys wearing white hats. But what you say is partly true, the old line mujaheddin the CIA trained and armed have joined in with the Taliban so what the Taliban was is not exactly what they are now. But grow up kiddo, quit thinking in terms of good guys and bad guys and start thinking of winning and losing strategies. Sadly, Nato has a losing strategy IMHO. As an American I am hoping Nato can win, but I am enough of a realists to realize Nato can't win with its present strategy.

Nato has every single high card in the deck, it ought to be winning hands down, yet grasps defeat from the jaws of victory because its too small, too top down oriented, and too cheap to pony up the resources to win. And worse yet, Nato does everything to aid the Taliban by getting in bed with Afghan corruption, so the Taliban cry of throw the Western devils out resonates.

But your problem Pershak is that you think because you touched the ear of the Afghan Elephant in Khost, that the entire Afghan elephant is exactly the same.

 

[Orignal Earl]

It is... but once you get past initial courtesies they'll usually open up and talk to you just like anybody else. Some will tell you to your face that they don't want us there... some will offer you land to come live there forever. It depends on their experiences.

Most of the people who don't want us there are the ones who don't know why we are there. A lot of younger Afghans have been led to believe that Al Qaeda and the Taliban were formed to oppose the American occupation, and that 9/11 was an attack in retaliation for us invading Afghanistan in 2001.

Like I said, it depends on what they think we are there to do. My unit had a great reputation with the locals because we never went anywhere without the police or army. There were agriculture units that are helping build better farms. Reconstruction teams are helping build infrastructure. The main highway through the province to Gardez/Kabul is being completely rebuilt, and will greatly open up the province to the rest of the country.

Things are getting better, and the people there know that. Just like any other country that's stuck in the past, you can't expect peoples' sentiments to change overnight, but they know things are getting better.

Good post :thumbsup:

I disagree though with *the country stuck in the past part*. Afghanistan in a lot of ways was more civilized then the US in the '50's (civil rights) and just as modern. War has really beat that country down. http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2010/05/27/once_upon_a_time_in_afghanistan

It must be disheartening for you when you read posts like Nicks.