afganastan expatriot opinion

rdr2go

Junior Member
Mar 9, 2001
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This came across on another mailing list I am on. Very interesting, plausible response to "What did they hope to gain by this massive terrorist attack" and a and bleak picture of Afghanistan today.

Reed
***************************************************************
Subject: A view from Afghanistan


Dear Friends,
The following was sent to me by my friend Tamim
Ansary. Tamim is an Afghani-American writer. He is
also one of the most brilliant people I know in this
life. When he writes, I read. When he talks, I
listen. Here is his take on Afghanistan and the whole
mess we are in.

-Gary T.


Dear Gary and whoever else is on this email thread:

I've been hearing a lot of talk about "bombing
Afghanistan back to the Stone Age." Ronn Owens, on KGO
Talk Radio today, allowed that this would mean killing
innocent people, people who had nothing to do with
this
atrocity, but "we're at war, we have to accept
colateral damage. What else can we do?" Minutes later
I heard some TV pundit discussing whether we "have the
belly to do what must be done."

And I thought about the issues being raised especially
hard because I am from Afghanistan, and even though
I've lived here (the US) for 35 years I've
never lost track of what's going on there. So I want
to tell anyone who will listen how it all looks from
where I'm standing.

I speak as one who hates the Taliban and Osama Bin
Laden. There is no doubt in my mind that these people
were responsible for the atrocity in New York. I agree
that something must be done about those monsters.

But the Taliban and Ben Laden are not Afghanistan.
They're not even the government of Afghanistan. The
Taliban are a cult of ignorant psychotics who took
over Afghanistan in 1997. Bin Laden is a political
criminal with a plan. When you think Taliban, think
Nazis. When you think Bin Laden, think Hitler. And
when you think "the people of Afghanistan" think "the
Jews in the concentration camps." It's not
only that the Afghan people had nothing to do with
this atrocity. They were the first victims of the
perpetrators. They would exult if someone would come
in there, take out the Taliban and clear out the rats
nest of international thugs holed up in their country.

Some say, why don't the Afghans rise up and overthrow
the Taliban? The answer is, they're starved,
exhausted, hurt, incapacitated, suffering. A few years
ago, the United Nations estimated that there are
500,000 disabled orphans in Afghanistan--a country
with no economy, no food. There are millions of
widows. And the Taliban has been burying these
widows alive in mass graves. The soil is littered
with land mines, the farms were all destroyed by the
Soviets. These are a few of the reasons why the
Afghan people have not overthrown the Taliban.

We come now to the question of bombing Afghanistan
back to the Stone Age. Trouble is, that's been done.
The Soviets took care of it already. Make the Afghans
suffer? They're already suffering. Level their houses?
Done. Turn their schools into piles of rubble? Done.
Eradicate their hospitals? Done. Destroy their
infrastructure? Cut them off from medicine and health
care? Too late. Someone already did all that. New
bombs would only stir the rubble of earlier bombs.
Would they at least get the Taliban? Not likely. In
today's Afghanistan, only the Taliban eat, only they
have the means to move around. They'd slip away and
hide. Maybe the bombs would get some of those disabled
orphans, they don't move too fast, they don't even
have wheelchairs. But flying over Kabul and dropping
bombs wouldn't really be a strike against the
criminals who did this horrific thing. Actually it
would only be making common cause with the Taliban--by
raping once again the people they've been raping all
this time.

So what else is there? What can be done, then? Let me
now speak with true fear and trembling. The only way
to get Bin Laden is to go in there with ground troops.
When people speak of "having the belly to do what
needs to be done" they're thinking in terms of having
the belly to kill as many as needed. Having the belly
to overcome any moral qualms about killing innocent
people. Let's pull our heads out of the sand. What's
actually on the table is Americans dying. And not just
because some Americans would die fighting their way
through Afghanistan to Bin Laden's hideout. It's much
bigger than that folks. Because to get any
troops to Afghanistan, we'd have to go through
Pakistan. Would they let us? Not likely. The conquest
of Pakistan would have to be first. Will other Muslim
nations just stand by? You see where I'm going. We're
flirting with a world war between Islam and the West.

And guess what: that's Bin Laden's program. That's
exactly what he wants. That's why he did this. Read
his speeches and statements. It's all right there. He
really believes Islam would beat the west. It might
seem ridiculous, but he figures if he can polarize the
world into Islam and the West, he's got a billion
soldiers. If the west wreaks a holocaust in those
lands, that's a billion people with nothing left to
lose, that's even better from Bin Laden's point of
view. He's probably wrong, in the end the west would
win, whatever that would mean, but the war would last
for years and millions would die, not just theirs but
ours. Who has the belly for that? Bin Laden does.
Anyone else?

Tamim Ansary



 

SJ

Golden Member
Oct 9, 1999
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<< millions would die, not just theirs but
ours. Who has the belly for that? Bin Laden does.
Anyone else?
>>



I do and I am sure most other americans do too. When the political pundits and politicans are talking about "having the belly for it" they ARE talking about loss of american life.
 

Looney

Lifer
Jun 13, 2000
21,938
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He makes some very good points... he's right though, attacking the Afghans civilians isn't the way to go. Of course civilians will die, but the main target will be the Taliban and it's government.
 

rudder

Lifer
Nov 9, 2000
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well if iraq was any indication of the willingness of people to fight for a psychotic leader....

True the people of Afghanistan have suffered. What I would like to see happen is Bin Laden destroyed and the Taliban completly removed from power and Afghanistans military destroyed completely. They have given him safe haven long enough and should pay the price. This would send a message to any state that wished to sponsor terrorism.
 

novon

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
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A great and insightful article rdr2go, thanks for the post, all we can hope is that people don't fall for bin laden's trap of the war he described.
 

Looney

Lifer
Jun 13, 2000
21,938
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So you suggest we fight mountain-to-mountain on the Taliban's home turf?

Well, if we drive the Taliban from the cities into the mountains, then the Northern Alliance can retake the cities. Then they can help the fight in the mountains.
 

Nemesis77

Diamond Member
Jun 21, 2001
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That man makes 100% sense! In a way, the people of Afganistan are the biggest victims here. They live under the brutal rule of Taliban. They want them to leave, but they can't force them. If west retaliates, it's the civilians who suffer, not the ones behind this act.

I hope for our sake and for their sake that they will be freed.
 

BiggieC

Senior member
Apr 6, 2000
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If all of Islam does decide to unite against the US (and the rest of the world for that matter) then maybe it does deserve to be eradicated. This is not Vietnam or Korea or even the Gulf War folks. We have been attacked on our sovereign soil. This will be like WWII in that their will be lines of proud Americans ready to enlist and die for their country. I will be one of them if it comes to that, and I think it actual might.
 

Nemesis77

Diamond Member
Jun 21, 2001
7,329
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Islam vs. The West would mean World War 3.

World War 1 was fought between nations.

World War 2 was fought between ideologies.

World War 3 will be fought between religions?
 

Evadman

Administrator Emeritus<br>Elite Member
Feb 18, 2001
30,990
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I will be right behind you BiggieC.

And yes, it is only a small percentage of Islamic peoples who have dislike for Americans. Remember, most of the information we get has been filtered by the Press. Do you think that ABC is going to say anything that would be "un-American"?"
 

Martin

Lifer
Jan 15, 2000
29,178
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<< So you suggest we fight mountain-to-mountain on the Taliban's home turf? >>



yes, it seems you finally read though the entire post. If bin Laden is responsible, ground troops will be the only way to go. Air Strikes in Serbia killed almost as many serb civilians as serbs killed ehtnic albanians.

I am too yonge to remember clearly, but I seem to remember seeing news reports of iraqis simply throwing down their AKs and surrendering.



Over all that was an EXCELLENT post, however I'd have to disagree with the pakistan part. Pakistan have already given their airspace and will NEVER risk war with the US and if the US requests, they will get permission to pass though...
 

Nemesis77

Diamond Member
Jun 21, 2001
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ground combat could be the way to go. Russia has already agreed to assist, USA could rely on support from the government troops in northern part of Afganistan. It would get ugly... But I don't know what else could be done.

I'm afraid things might get worse before they get better :(
 

Looney

Lifer
Jun 13, 2000
21,938
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Personally, i think we should topple the Pakistani government as well... they've allowed Bin Laden to use Pakistan as a training ground, and i wouldnt' be surprised if Pakistan help funded the attack.

 

hungrypete

Diamond Member
Aug 4, 2000
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<< Personally, i think we should topple the Pakistani government as well... they've allowed Bin Laden to use Pakistan as a training ground, and i wouldnt' be surprised if Pakistan help funded the attack. >>



we have to be more careful when dealing with a nation having known nuclear capabilities
 

Nemesis77

Diamond Member
Jun 21, 2001
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<<

<< Personally, i think we should topple the Pakistani government as well... they've allowed Bin Laden to use Pakistan as a training ground, and i wouldnt' be surprised if Pakistan help funded the attack. >>



we have to be more careful when dealing with a nation having known nuclear capabilities
>>



They could threaten troops there with nukes, but they haven't got the capability to strike continental USA.
 

damocles

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
5,105
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Pakistan, as a nation, has very strong relations with many UN nations - including Great Britain, France, Australia and New Zealand.

You can't just go round 'toppling' governments
 

Looney

Lifer
Jun 13, 2000
21,938
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Really? I had the impression there were sanctions against Pakistan for their '98 nuclear testings.

Oh well, i still think it would be justified if they've helped trained and funded terrorists.
 

LocutusX

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
3,061
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<< Personally, i think we should topple the Pakistani government as well... they've allowed Bin Laden to use Pakistan as a training ground, and i wouldnt' be surprised if Pakistan help funded the attack. >>



Uh... the current Pakistani gov't is not exactly very stable... they exist at the whim of the Islamic fundamentalists who are pulling their strings. That's why General Pervez is in a bind. If he takes a really pro-US stance, there'll be a coup. He'll be ousted.

He's probably going to end up getting ousted anyways.
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
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Thanks for that posting. Hopefully it will help some understand the seriousness and complexity of such an undertaking. I know that I have.
 

Looney

Lifer
Jun 13, 2000
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Uh... the current Pakistani gov't is not exactly very stable... they exist at the whim of the Islamic fundamentalists who are pulling their strings. That's why General Pervez is in a bind. If he takes a really pro-US stance, there'll be a coup. He'll be ousted.

He's probably going to end up getting ousted anyways.


So what does that mean? A hardline Islamic group would take over, and stand up to the US?