Advocates of the 9-9-9 explain how this graphic appears "fair"

[MagickMan]

You can't really stop buying food and gas, and you can't stop paying your bills, right?

No, but they can stop buying iPhones and PS3s when their rent is due.

If I don't have the disposable income to buy something I want, I wait until I do. I know, it's a novel concept for some.

 

[Anarchist420]

It's not regressive on corporations, that's for sure. They'll be paying a lot more under the 9-9-9 plan.

A 9% sales tax alone isn't that harmful, but it's best to just go with a decentralized tax system or at least, low tariffs and excise taxes (those could get the U.S. $1.1T in revenue). Just slash expenditures by ~70% and the budget would be balanced with low tariffs and some more (without raising existing ones) excise taxes.

 

[csteggo]

I had watched a video with Cain explaining to, I believe it was, David Gregory about how all these 'invisible' taxes will go away and everything we purchase will become cheaper. It makes me think of gas prices. How no matter how low the base price per barrel it is. The pump price doesn't reflect that. I am not a big fan of magic in my tax code. I don't trust Mr. aptly name Cain. Not too surprising this plan comes from Kochs candidate.

 

[jackstar7]

No, but they can stop buying iPhones and PS3s when their rent is due.

If I don't have the disposable income to buy something I want, I wait until I do. I know, it's a novel concept for some.

Yes, look down from high atop your mountain of disdain at the poor who clearly have made all the wrong choices to remain poor.

Because shit never happens. I mean there's no such thing as luck or chaos. It's all about choices and force of will and focus.

But of course you're not talking about "those" poor... only the irresponsible ones. I must assume it's easy for you to distinguish between them.

 

[DominionSeraph]

i thought the whole reason the left had sand in their collective vag's is because the rich need to "repay society for the opportunity"....... do the bottom 50% not receive the exact same opportunity? it's like going to safeway and if you're rich the sandwich costs $50 but if you're poor it's free? how does that make sense, it's the same sandwich!

There is limited opportunity to live on the backs of the workers. Watch:

Take a group of 10 people. Give one a gun and have him enslave the other 9. Now the one can live high off the labor of the 9.

Give all 10 people guns and have them try to enslave the other 9 so they each have 9 slaves each. You see the problem? Each is trying to make a worker out of a non-working elite while trying to be a non-working elite themselves. It doesn't work. To have 10 non-working elites own 9 slaves each you need another 90 people. You can't have 10 and have a total 10 non-workers each living off the labor of the other 9 because the other 9 aren't laboring!

So when a person does get in the position of controlling the slaves, the slaves are well within their rights to exercise what little power they have make him pay for the nicety of that position. It's their money, after all. He's doing nothing but exercising property rights over it.

 

[Doppel]

Stupid people who don't understand what progressive taxation means trying to defend flat taxes is the problem.

Really, most people have no idea how LITTLE taxes they pay. I've actually looked at my total tax rate after filing a year of taxes and despite an above median household income my total federal tax rate is almost embarrassingly low. Many people basically nothing in federal taxes. There are other taxes, but a flat tax would fvck virtually everybody reading this thread. And take my word for it, if you're not making at least 6 digits you'd be one of those getting fvcked if the total tax revenues stayed the same but a flat tax was enacted to generate those revenues.

 

[Ns1]

I wonder how much the wealthy actually pays now considering all the loopholes out there...

The rich pay the most taxes while the poor consume the most services

random report (although a little outdated) that seems legit:

http://www.taxfoundation.org/files/sr151.pdf

 

[Engineer]

Stupid people who don't understand what progressive taxation means trying to defend flat taxes is the problem.

Really, most people have no idea how LITTLE taxes they pay. I've actually looked at my total tax rate after filing a year of taxes and despite an above median household income my total federal tax rate is almost embarrassingly low. Many people basically nothing in federal taxes. There are other taxes, but a flat tax would fvck virtually everybody reading this thread. And take my word for it, if you're not making at least 6 digits you'd be one of those getting fvcked if the total tax revenues stayed the same but a flat tax was enacted to generate those revenues.

Most accurate post in this thread.

 

[Demo24]

The rich pay the most taxes while the poor consume the most services

random report (although a little outdated) that seems legit:

http://www.taxfoundation.org/files/sr151.pdf

Looks a little biased to me.

as for the rich/poor taxation:

"CBO figured in that year more than half of all federal taxes was paid by the top 10 percent of income earners. They paid 55 percent of all federal taxes in 2007, CBO said.

That's a comprehensive figure, counting the income tax, payroll taxes, excise taxes and even the corporate income tax (borne by stockholders in the form of reduced dividends and appreciation). And perhaps surprisingly, the top 10 percent of earners pay a greater share of federal taxes now than they did before the Bush tax cuts, which Democrats constantly criticize as a giveaway to "the rich." The top 10 percent paid 50 percent of all federal taxes in 2001.


However, that comes in spite of lower tax rates at the top, not because of it. The reason the most affluent 10 percent pay a greater share of taxes is that they are getting a greater share of all income. Their share of all pre-tax income went from 37.5 percent in 2001 to 42 percent in 2007."

http://factcheck.org/2011/07/fiscal-factcheck/

 

[Patranus]

I still don't get how having everyone pay the same thing isn't fair.
When I split a pizza with people in College, did I poll people on how much money they had and distributed the costs based on that while giving the "poorer" students more pizza?

Of course not.

The pizza as well as the costs were divided equality.

 

[jackstar7]

I still don't get how having everyone pay the same thing isn't fair.
When I split a pizza with people in College, did I poll people on how much money they had and distributed the costs based on that while giving the "poorer" students more pizza?

Of course not.

The pizza as well as the costs were divided equality.

We don't all eat pizza. Also, trying to simplify an economy of this magnitude and the taxation required to provide all government services down to a pizza analogy is absurd.

 

[Ns1]

Looks a little biased to me.

as for the rich/poor taxation:

"CBO figured in that year more than half of all federal taxes was paid by the top 10 percent of income earners. They paid 55 percent of all federal taxes in 2007, CBO said.

That's a comprehensive figure, counting the income tax, payroll taxes, excise taxes and even the corporate income tax (borne by stockholders in the form of reduced dividends and appreciation). And perhaps surprisingly, the top 10 percent of earners pay a greater share of federal taxes now than they did before the Bush tax cuts, which Democrats constantly criticize as a giveaway to "the rich." The top 10 percent paid 50 percent of all federal taxes in 2001.


However, that comes in spite of lower tax rates at the top, not because of it. The reason the most affluent 10 percent pay a greater share of taxes is that they are getting a greater share of all income. Their share of all pre-tax income went from 37.5 percent in 2001 to 42 percent in 2007."

http://factcheck.org/2011/07/fiscal-factcheck/

So the point stands that the rich pay the most in taxes (not that I have a problem with this)

 

[Patranus]

We don't all eat pizza. Also, trying to simplify an economy of this magnitude and the taxation required to provide all government services down to a pizza analogy is absurd.

That is where you are wrong.
It can never be simple and "fair" because then how would government redistribute wealth, control the population, control the states, or give out favors to contributors if taxes were equable.

But sure, lets continue to find fuck these issues to death and drive an even bigger wedge between Americans (at the federal level)

The fact of the matter is that the only equitable tax system is where everyone has skin in the game and every pays the same rate. Any other system is by definition not equitable.

 

[Throckmorton]

regressive in terms of % of household income, not in absolute dollars.....

That's what regressive means...

 

[Doppel]

I still don't get how having everyone pay the same thing isn't fair.
When I split a pizza with people in College, did I poll people on how much money they had and distributed the costs based on that while giving the "poorer" students more pizza?

Of course not.

The pizza as well as the costs were divided equality.

Probably those you were eating pizza with were more or less your peers. I presume that if you were stinking rich and your friends were dirt poor you'd sometimes have paid their share.

 

[Engineer]

I still don't get how having everyone pay the same thing isn't fair.
When I split a pizza with people in College, did I poll people on how much money they had and distributed the costs based on that while giving the "poorer" students more pizza?

Of course not.

The pizza as well as the costs were divided equality.

So you're for flat taxes across the board on ALL income? That includes removing any other taxes than income and then imposing flat, across the board income taxes at all levels. Otherwise, most (if not all) classes except upper and upper middle will pay more of their income as a % in taxes than those at the top....

or is that what you're shooting for?

 

[DrPizza]

i wish they would just eliminate the income tax and enact a federal sales tax. that way, EVERYONE pays based on what they buy. u buy more, u pay more taxes. even if youre an illegal alien you would be paying taxes.

I still don't get how having everyone pay the same thing isn't fair.
When I split a pizza with people in College, did I poll people on how much money they had and distributed the costs based on that while giving the "poorer" students more pizza?

Of course not.

The pizza as well as the costs were divided equality.

You're forgetting: the pizza was divided equally. Duh.

 

[Matt1970]

It's a moot point as there is no way in hell a flat tax would ever pass Congress and the Senate.

 

[KlokWyze]

He sucks. His plan sucks. Stop talking about him.

 

[Patranus]

or is that what you're shooting for?

Why shouldn't we have an equitable tax system where everyone has skin in the game?

 

[Engineer]

Why shouldn't we have an equitable tax system where everyone has skin in the game?

I didn't ask that. I asked if you were willing to flatten ALL taxes across the board to get that result? Otherwise, you have one big flat tax with tons of regressive taxes in which the lower/lower middle/middle/upper middle will pay more than those at the top and possible be a completely regressive tax.

Is that what you're shooting for?

(Bolded to get a straight answer).

 

[Bird222]

I still don't get how having everyone pay the same thing isn't fair.
When I split a pizza with people in College, did I poll people on how much money they had and distributed the costs based on that while giving the "poorer" students more pizza?

Of course not.

The pizza as well as the costs were divided equality.

It is mathematically fair but that's not going to leave a very good society.

 

[csteggo]

Of course not really mentioning that in his proposal there wouldn't be a capital gains tax or other taxes in which the truly wealthy have as income. Meaning that our national debt broadens and me as middle class strangely enough double my tax burden.

 

[MagickMan]

Yes, look down from high atop your mountain of disdain at the poor who clearly have made all the wrong choices to remain poor.

Because shit never happens. I mean there's no such thing as luck or chaos. It's all about choices and force of will and focus.

But of course you're not talking about "those" poor... only the irresponsible ones. I must assume it's easy for you to distinguish between them.

Oh f*ck you, I'm not rich. I have to choose between the things I want and what I need. If I don't have the money, I don't buy the shit I want. People need to wake up and start making better choices. Bullshit about bad luck isn't the reason most people are hurting, it's because they're over their heads in CC debt, can't control their spending, and have no way of understanding how their choices will impact them 10-40 years down the road.

Wake the f*ck up, stop spending what you don't have.

 

[senseamp]

Same here. Problem is the crying of "well the poor have to use a greater percentage of their income to buy stuff, so their tax burden is greater". Solution: quite buying so much crap.

Great "solution" to our economic problems. Stimulate the economy by encouraging people to buy less.