Advice on receiver and speaker matchup

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TJ 2

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Mar 18, 2012
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Hey guys, I'm running a pioneer vsx521 receiver, 125 watts per channel, 6ohm, with 2 x wharfdale xarus 1000 bookshelf speakers, 20-150 watts, 6ohm, sensitivity 85db, running a yamaha 6" 70 watt sub, using only 2 channels (stereo) playing iPod music and video through it to my 50 inch plasma, been having trouble with overheating, now have been told the amp is clipping because it's underpowered, while this is no power champ it should be able to run this setup comfortably shouldn't it?? One of the speakers stopped working lastweek after I had them for 2 days, I got them both replaced and have been running them at moderate levels without playing video through the iPod and everything is fine, I want to start playing my videos again at volumes I like (fairly high) but am hesitant to do so incase I damage the speakers again or damage the amp, just wondering if this is a bad match up? Or am I doin anything wrong setup etc?? If anyone out there has the same or similar setups any advice or help would be much appreciated!! Thanks
 
NutBucket

NutBucket

Lifer
Aug 30, 2000
27,093
591
126
No need to post another thread but basically your Pioneer amp simply cannot handle 6 ohm speakers. At low-moderate levels it can cope but you're simply asking too much of it. Get a better amp and you won't have a problem.
 
SithSolo1

SithSolo1

Diamond Member
Mar 19, 2001
7,740
11
81
NutBucket said:
No need to post another thread but basically your Pioneer amp simply cannot handle 6 ohm speakers. At low-moderate levels it can cope but you're simply asking too much of it. Get a better amp and you won't have a problem.
Click to expand...

^This.

You currently have 3 things working against your setup:

1) Your amp is not a strong one. Yes, the amp claims to output 125w per channel. On budget amps such as the one you have this is normally tested with 1 channel driven at one specific frequency. In reality it is probably somewhere in the range of 20-30w(or less) per channel(full frequency range) with both channels playing.

2) Your speakers are 6 ohm. Lower ohm loads are much more demanding and require stronger amps to power them. We have already established that this amp does not meet this requirement. It is designed for 8 ohm speakers only.

3) The Wharfdales you have are low sensitivity. This is not bad in and of itself but does not help your amp. The lower the sensitivity of a speaker the more power it will require to get as loud as a higher sensitivity speaker. They are rated at 85db. This means it takes 1w of power to produce sound at 85db 1 meter away from the speaker.

Every time you double that 1 meter distance the sound level drops 6db. So lets say your listening position is 4 meters(~13.2ft) from the speakers. That means 85db is now only 73db. A difference of 12db. For every 3db increase in sound pressure we have to double the wattage. So lets get that sound back up to 85db. 12db/3 = 4. We have to double it 4 times: 1x2 = 2, 2x2 = 4, 4x2= 8, and finally 8x2 = 16. You now need 16w per channel to produce that sound.



All of the above create a perfect storm for the following:

The increased load and power demand is causing the amp to overheat. As an amp overheats it becomes less efficient. Less efficiency means the amp is working even harder to meet power demands and is clipping the audio signal. Clipping is bad mojo for speakers. Clipping is more than likely what killed your first set of Wharfdales. It will happen again if you continue to use them on this amp or any other amp not rated for 6 ohm speakers.
 
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T

TJ 2

Member
Mar 18, 2012
84
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Ok thanks guys, I have a HK AV 134 receiver, would it be worth while trying this receiver with the wharfdales?
 
K

kornphlake

Golden Member
Dec 30, 2003
1,567
9
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It's probably worth not trying to get night club level sound out of the equipment you've purchased, at the bare minimum you'll need a sub that is 2x larger and has 2x more power than your 6" 70 watt mid bass unit. The HK receiver is rated for 6 ohm speakers so it should be able to drive the wharfdales continuously, but it's only got 100w at 6 ohms (rated with a single speaker BTW,) so it's not likely to get as loud as you want without really stressing the amp.

You need to really sit down and consider your priorities, you're either going to need to invest in an amp with more power and 4 ohm stable, or you need to consider some more efficient speakers, or you could just keep the volume knob several clicks below max.
 
NutBucket

NutBucket

Lifer
Aug 30, 2000
27,093
591
126
Only if you're sure you'll be able to get another replacement pair of Wharfdales if you blow them up again.
 
A

alcoholbob

Diamond Member
May 24, 2005
6,346
419
126
Get a bigger amp or speakers that have higher efficiency--go loud with less power.

I have the Pioneer 519 (same amp) and it's only really meant for small rooms. It's a dinky 19lb receiver...there are receivers out there that approach 100lbs, those have REAL power amplifiers.
 
sdifox

sdifox

No Lifer
Sep 30, 2005
97,798
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126
Astrallite said:
Get a bigger amp or speakers that have higher efficiency--go loud with less power.

I have the Pioneer 519 (same amp) and it's only really meant for small rooms. It's a dinky 19lb receiver...there are receivers out there that approach 100lbs, those have REAL power amplifiers.
Click to expand...

me amp is only 65lb :whiste: but it is 165w rms x5 @ 8ohm all channels driven. Thd 0.05%.

the pre/pro is about 18lb


to be fair, a class D amp is a lot lighter.
 
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T

TJ 2

Member
Mar 18, 2012
84
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0
Ok thanks for the advice guys I understand what u r saying, so any suggestions on amp upgrade? Brand, power etc??
 
SithSolo1

SithSolo1

Diamond Member
Mar 19, 2001
7,740
11
81
You need to list what you can find at the top of your budget range. Most of us don't live in AU and from what I've seen you get jacked on cost down there. Receivers that normally cost us $150-200 are $400+ down there.

Possibilities I've found so far:

http://www.apollohifi.com.au/index....category_id=7&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=80

http://www.selbyacoustics.com.au/St...il.aspx?sid=1&sfid=74520&c=190971&i=262444112

Neither of them is incredibily powerful but from what I've read in the manuals they appear to be able to run 6 ohm speakers(Onkyo for certain).
 
NutBucket

NutBucket

Lifer
Aug 30, 2000
27,093
591
126
I have amp envy...my stereo receiver is only ~50lbs :p

The surround receiver really feels left out at a paltry 23lbs. Damned anorexia!
 
sdifox

sdifox

No Lifer
Sep 30, 2005
97,798
16,655
126
NutBucket said:
I have amp envy...my stereo receiver is only ~50lbs :p

The surround receiver really feels left out at a paltry 23lbs. Damned anorexia!
Click to expand...

The cardboard boxes for my mains probably weight more than 23lb :whiste:

and 2 channel at 50 is more lb per channel than 5 channel at 65lb
 
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A

alcoholbob

Diamond Member
May 24, 2005
6,346
419
126
ces-2005-cm-denonavr5805.jpg


ces-2005-cm-denon-avr5805back.jpg


Feast your eyes on 98lbs of manliness, you proletariat peasants! :D
 
SithSolo1

SithSolo1

Diamond Member
Mar 19, 2001
7,740
11
81
That thing looks like it would crush most AV racks/TV cabinets and power bills(up to 13A @ the wall!).

By comparison the current crop of 9.1+Ch receivers from the big 4(Onkyo: TX-NR5009, Denon: AVR-5308CI, Yamaha: RX-A3010, and Pioneer: SC-57) are all 55lbs or less.
 
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