advice on buying pc

[sophiarosehips]

Hi...
I'm looking to buy a custom built pc, and since I'm not very experienced, I was hoping you all could point me in the right direction. So far, I've ruled out Alienware as too expensive, but I'm considering a computer at abs.

Here's what I'm looking for:
Intel Core2, 2 gigs of RAM, ability to at least upgrade to a 8800GTX if I don't get one outright, so PCI express slot. Aside from that I'm a bit fuzzy on the details; it's actually quite an accomplishment for me to know as much as I do so far.

I have about $1500 to spend.

I use my computer almost exclusively to play games. My interest in getting a new one was prompted by getting NeverwinterNights 2 for xmas and figuring out that it would not run on my current computer. I've been bugging people on the NWN2 forum for ideas about all of this, and also made a foray into compusa to get more information... and I imagine most of you can guess how useful *that* turned out to be. Suffice to say, the people on the forum have been infinitely more helpful. Anyway, when I do finally start using NWN2 it will be mainly for the toolset, and I'm told I should definitely get the dualcore and the 2 gigs of RAM to run that. Ideally, I'd like to invest in the 800GTX because it seems to be the best card; I'm just not sure I can afford it right now, with everything else.

Some folks have advised me to try to buy my own rig, but I am, to say the least, intimidated by that idea. I'd rather pay a bit more and have it done to my specifications, as much as possible. I like an abs computer I saw, but one person who looked at for me said that while it *is* a decent pc for a decent price, its motherboard isn't really suitable for overclocking, that it's not quite right for making the most of the processor, so if anyone has other suggestions, I'm thankful in advance.

 

[sjandrewbsme]

I strongly suggest building your own PC. I know this might seem a little intimidating, but it's not nearly as hard as most people think. This will help in lots of areas:

1) You will be able to re-use some components from your existing rig to save some money (at least the monitor, mouse, keyboard, possibly O/S, and maybe even case)

2) You will learn how to build your own PC. I know this sounds like a trivial thing but it's very liberating. You will no longer be beholden to Dell (or whoever) for support. It's very satisfying to build your own machine and fix issues (that would normally require 1.5 hours on hold to India to fix) yourself.

3) You will be able to pick and choose what you want. This is especially cool when you can guy second tier stuff. For example, you could buy the specific processor and RAM that are a tier below the top stuff and overclock both. This will save you tons of money. Someone who knows what they're doing can get a $200 processor to perform like a $1000 processor (and nowadays overclocking is pretty darn easy).

I could tick off lots of other advantages but you get the point. It probably comes down to your personal comfort level with building a PC. I can tell you from experience that it's quite a bit simpler than it used to be (not that it was ever particularly difficult).

When I bought my first PC, I went all out (right before college). I spent about $3k and it was top of the line - a Dell P2 333 w/ 64 MB RAM and an 8MB V/C. I was very pleased with it and it worked perfectly. Over the years I started playing games and needed upgrades. I started with a new (voodoo2 12 MB) video card. I was so scared to open the case and ruin my investment. When it was all said and done it worked fine and I developed more confidence in opening my case.

Add a new sound card, larger hard drive, and a windows re-install and I had taken apart pretty much everything in my PC at least once. When it came time to upgrade the whole PC (I had found the coolest show on TV called the screen savers where they built a PC on the air) I took the plunge and bought the components for a new PC.

I sold my dell for $300 and bought new guts (including a case) for $800. It was a revelation. I have never bought a PC since and I always encourage people to build since. I felt like I was duped by ever buying a PC when building it was this simple. I was expecting...well I don't know what. But, it was a thoroughly empowering experience that wasn't at all difficult.

If you are a true gamer you just need to build your own PC - it's that simple.

Regarding your video card - what resolution do you play? The 8800GTX is a beast and it's the fastest single card you can get now. But....you need to make sure it's necessary for what you're doing and you pair it with the proper processor (the C2D is the right choice there). Unless you're playing at the highest details with filtering and anti aliasing on, it's probably not completely necessary.

Here is a performance guide for neverwinter nights 2:

http://www.gamespot.com/features/6163248/p-6.html

The point, I think, is that I always find it hard to rationalize the top-of-the-line processor or video card. You can get much of the same performance on second tier stuff and save some dough.

If you're dead set on getting a pre-built rig, I think you're going to have a hard time getting what you want for 1500 (a boutique gaming PC). You might want to look at Dell (no I'm not joking) - they can make some decent gaming systems at reasonable prices....but you can forget about overclocking.

As one last reason to build yourself, take a look at this article:

http://www.tomshardware.com/2007/01/11/...o-overtakes-core-2-extreme/page12.html

This shows how a $190 processor can be made to outperform a processor 5X its price. This is a prime example of why to build yourself - pick your own RAM, cooling, processor specifically to squeeze out $800 worth of performance from an entry level processor. This is hard to do (if not imposslbe) with a boutique pre-built PC.

 

[Troll4Hire]

Falcon Northwest and Voodoo PC are arguably the best two makers of Custom PC's in business today.

For someone on a budget ABS PC is a good choice

EDIT:

The censor filter edits the url.

http://tinyurl.com/ncccd

******/index.asp

 

[Troll4Hire]

Originally posted by: sjandrewbsme
I strongly suggest building your own PC. I know this might seem a little intimidating, but it's not nearly as hard as most people think. This will help in lots of areas:

1) You will be able to re-use some components from your existing rig to save some money (at least the monitor, mouse, keyboard, possibly O/S, and maybe even case)

2) You will learn how to build your own PC. I know this sounds like a trivial thing but it's very liberating. You will no longer be beholden to Dell (or whoever) for support. It's very satisfying to build your own machine and fix issues (that would normally require 1.5 hours on hold to India to fix) yourself.

3) You will be able to pick and choose what you want. This is especially cool when you can guy second tier stuff. For example, you could buy the specific processor and RAM that are a tier below the top stuff and overclock both. This will save you tons of money. Someone who knows what they're doing can get a $200 processor to perform like a $1000 processor (and nowadays overclocking is pretty darn easy).

I could tick off lots of other advantages but you get the point. It probably comes down to your personal comfort level with building a PC. I can tell you from experience that it's quite a bit simpler than it used to be (not that it was ever particularly difficult).

When I bought my first PC, I went all out (right before college). I spent about $3k and it was top of the line - a Dell P2 333 w/ 64 MB RAM and an 8MB V/C. I was very pleased with it and it worked perfectly. Over the years I started playing games and needed upgrades. I started with a new (voodoo2 12 MB) video card. I was so scared to open the case and ruin my investment. When it was all said and done it worked fine and I developed more confidence in opening my case.

Add a new sound card, larger hard drive, and a windows re-install and I had taken apart pretty much everything in my PC at least once. When it came time to upgrade the whole PC (I had found the coolest show on TV called the screen savers where they built a PC on the air) I took the plunge and bought the components for a new PC.

I sold my dell for $300 and bought new guts (including a case) for $800. It was a revelation. I have never bought a PC since and I always encourage people to build since. I felt like I was duped by ever buying a PC when building it was this simple. I was expecting...well I don't know what. But, it was a thoroughly empowering experience that wasn't at all difficult.

If you are a true gamer you just need to build your own PC - it's that simple.

Regarding your video card - what resolution do you play? The 8800GTX is a beast and it's the fastest single card you can get now. But....you need to make sure it's necessary for what you're doing and you pair it with the proper processor (the C2D is the right choice there). Unless you're playing at the highest details with filtering and anti aliasing on, it's probably not completely necessary.

Here is a performance guide for neverwinter nights 2:

http://www.gamespot.com/features/6163248/p-6.html

The point, I think, is that I always find it hard to rationalize the top-of-the-line processor or video card. You can get much of the same performance on second tier stuff and save some dough.

If you're dead set on getting a pre-built rig, I think you're going to have a hard time getting what you want for 1500 (a boutique gaming PC). You might want to look at Dell (no I'm not joking) - they can make some decent gaming systems at reasonable prices....but you can forget about overclocking.

As one last reason to build yourself, take a look at this article:

http://www.tomshardware.com/2007/01/11/...o-overtakes-core-2-extreme/page12.html

This shows how a $190 processor can be made to outperform a processor 5X its price. This is a prime example of why to build yourself - pick your own RAM, cooling, processor specifically to squeeze out $800 worth of performance from an entry level processor. This is hard to do (if not imposslbe) with a boutique pre-built PC.

If his budget for a gaming pc is $1500 and he does not have the inclination or technical support knowledge then it's best he look for DELL. He will save little or nothing by building it himself and he will not have any one to call when a part fails. Instead he will have to rely on his own wallet and knowledge to fix it himself.

Now don't get me wrong, I am in favor of building your own computer, but small budgets* are best spent on a prebuilt system with tech support for the same price.

In other words, "Dude your getting a DELL"!

*small budget= <$800 for an internet machine or <$1500 for a gaming machine

 

[IntrinsicValue]

I actually do not recommend building a PC unless 1. you think you'll enjoy it, or 2. you want to learn about building PC's.

I've built PC's and I can tell you it wasn't fun, and was really a pain - especially the first build. But if you fall into #1 or #2 above, then by all means feel free!

Regarding custom-built PC's, it depends on what you are looking for. If you want decent customer support and a good warranty, go with Dell (I believe they moved their customer support out of India). The only thing about Dell is some of their parts are proprietary, so if something breaks (and you aren't under warranty) it won't be so easy to replace it yourself.

If you're looking at a gaming computer, then I'd go with something more like an ABS computer. There are other gaming systems out there, but I had a decent experience with ABS about 6 years back. I cannot vouch for their quality today, but I know their prices are reasonable. Avoid those over-priced gaming manufacturers like Alienware and Falconwest. It's a complete rip-off.

 

[Blain]

If you're a bit hesitant to build your own, don't worry about it... Buy an ABS and be happy.
That sure beats clogging up this forum with "Help me, I desperate!" threads after something didn't go as planned.
You can get a perfectly respectable PC from ABS for your budget.

Only listen to the "build your own crowd" IF they are willing to come to your house and trouble shoot your rig when there's a problem.
And there will be problems... Just read down the threads in this forum! :laugh:

 

[jmagg]

1. Build your own

2. Learn to troubleshoot. Ask questions here, and at other well regarded tech forums. In a short time you'll be able to fix most, if not all problems on your own.
(pretty much the mission of Anand.)

3. Enjoy a stress free computing life.

4. If not, ABS is good.

 

[Blain]

Originally posted by: jmagg
1. Build your own

3. Enjoy a stress free computing life.

:shocked: :roll: :shocked: :roll: :shocked:

 

[jmagg]

Keep working on it Blain, you'll get it in time.:laugh:

 

[regnez]

I have no problem with pre-built systems either, but a benefit of building your own PC that I did not see mentioned here is the quality of the components you can choose.

Sure you can get a Dell or ABS with specs and tech support for ~the same price as if you built your own PC, but would you get a motherboard/hsf/ram suited for overclocking from Dell? No, you are not going to get anything even close.

One of the way vendors are able to keep their prices low is by offering lower quality components than what you could otherwise buy.

I would not, however, recommending building your own pc unless you have the time/desire to learn and troubleshoot it for yourself. It is very rewarding to have built your own, but this is something that does not matter to everyone.

What Dell, ABS, and other vendors offer is perfectly sufficient if you are looking for a low-maintenance PC at a good price.

Also, ibuypower is another one that a lot of people I know have used and been satisfied with.

 

[Blain]

"Sure you can get a Dell or ABS with specs and tech support for ~the same price as if you built your own PC,

One of the way vendors are able to keep their prices low is by offering lower quality components than what you could otherwise buy."

Have you actually looked at the specs of the ABS gaming systems? Here's a link :shocked:

 

[sjandrewbsme]

I can honestly say I've had no more trouble/hassle with systems I've built than with pre-built systems. I would actually venture to say that if anything, I find pre-built systems to be more of a hassle.

The last pre-built I bought was a Dell (my laptop). It's a fine enough piece of hardware, but dealing with all of the crap they pre-load on it made me re-install windows after about 30 days of seeing "warning about to expire" pop up ads for the bloatware they install.

The biggest single probloem with building yourself is there is no one person to call when it all goes wrong. You're the system integrator and it's up to you to determine how to fix it.

The way I look at it is that I would rather spend 15 minutes figuring out a problem myself (on the exceedingly rare occasion when I do have a problem) than call tech support and wait for hours for someone to ultimately tell me to insert the rescue disc.

All I'm trying to say is that (and the OP never mentioned being averse to building a PC - though I think that was her intent and there was a typo between building and buying) you don't need to be an uber geek techno weenie to build a PC. It's really pretty simple and more than that rewarding.

 

[DLM]

Some folks have advised me to try to buy my own rig, but I am, to say the least, intimidated by that idea. I'd rather pay a bit more and have it done to my specifications, as much as possible.

@sjandrewbsme...evidently you missed this line in the OP's post...you have to understand that not everyone wants or needs to learn the innermost workings and connectivity of components or even enjoys the sense of accomplishment of building something like a pc on their own.

btw, if you're still using the line that building your own is cheaper, you should do a little price comparisons...and to answer your question, i will never buy a pre-built either, but not everyone is the same...

 

[sjandrewbsme]

I interpret "buy my own rig" to mean buy a pre-built. Even so - I understand her reticence. I'm just trying to point out that building a PC is not a difficult undertaking.

I also agree that at a pre-built can be cheaper. But, I think for what she wants she would be hard pressed to save money going pre-built (I think she wants a fairly high end machine with specific components). Most Dells are competitive in their pre-packaged offerings. If she can find something that will meet her needs that's also pre-packaged and priced to sell, then I think she's golden.

Where you save money on pre-built is by using second tier components and overclocking (something you can't do on a dell). You also save money by re-using your O/S (something I've done twice now with my legal OEM copy of XP Pro after calling MS for a new activation key - 2 minutes a call) and other components.

 

[Blain]

Originally posted by: sjandrewbsme

Where you save money on pre-built is by using second tier components and overclocking (something you can't do on a dell). You also save money by re-using your O/S (something I've done twice now with my legal OEM copy of XP Pro after calling MS for a new activation key - 2 minutes a call) and other components.

Check ABS parts and tell me what "second tier" parts they use on their $899-$1,300 rigs.

 

[sjandrewbsme]

For $1500 you're not getting a C2D Extreme or 8800GTX (or SLI).

I don't mean second tier in terms of quality I mean in terms of E6300 versus C2D extreme, or 8800GTS versus GTX. With Dell, you don't have the option of buying an E6300 and overclocking the crap out of it. This may be an option with ABS - I don't know (I assume it is as they sell regular motherboards).

The point being - you can build an E6300 for much less money than you can buy a C2DExtreme system from dell - and their CPU performance will be very similar.

For her, maybe ABS is a good compromise (non intel locked motherboards without her having to build anything).

 

[Blain]

Originally posted by: sophiarosehips
Hi...
I'm looking to buy a custom built pc,

I have about $1500 to spend.

I use my computer almost exclusively to play games.

 

[sjandrewbsme]

I felt the same way when I bought my first PC. I'm just trying to explain that it's not difficult and there are lots of benefits to building your own.

Had someone told me, I might have saved some cash.

 

[InFeXiOn]

I highly recommend building your machine - there's nothing more satisfying. For over 6 years I was stuck on a Celeron 700mhz from Dell that back in the day worked for me, but I wanted more out of it just could never afford it. When I finally got the money together and decided to upgrade my first choice was to buy another pre-built, but luckily I reconsidered. I knew the difference in parts, and building I could probably buy better parts for the same price that a company like Dell could offer.

Finally took the plunge and headed to TigerDirect and chose my parts for my new rig, with not a ton of research and without AnandTech, haha. I made a lot of mistakes and probably could have got am uch better value had I shopped around and got the advice of enthusiasts like the people here, but ****** happens (like trying to squeeze 240-pin into a 184-pin mobo and breaking both the RAM AND mobo - I'm a genius). Despite all the hardware issues and struggling with Windows blue screens for days it felt like I'd won a war when I was done, haha. It was extremely satisfying.. and since then I've learned SO much because making those mistakes has taught me lessons; and of course led me here.

Consider building one. It's not as daunting as it seems and there are plenty of sites on the internet to help you along the way. I was able to, so I'm sure you can too.

 

[sophiarosehips]

yikes, I *did* mean to put that ppl have advised me to BUILD my own; and that I'm intimidated by that idea...

Anywa, thank you to each of you for your responses, and particularly to those who are understanding about my reluctance to build my own; I really have no resources if something fails to work, other than a forum, and at this time, I'm not up for that challenge. I don't have any computer savy friends. Between my bf and me, *I*'m the techie, which should tell you something.

I'm going to check out your suggestions, though, and I thank you all again.

 

[Blain]

>>> ABS Computer @ Reseller Ratings, Lifetime Rating = 8.52 <<<

 

[sophiarosehips]

Hi again...
Little help please, as I'm customizing; I don't know what I would need in terms of power supply?

I'm thinking of going with a vid card in the high 7000s, for now, rather than the 8800, to save a little $, and maybe I'll upgrade in a year to whatever's better.

 

[sophiarosehips]

and... is it worth it to drop another $100 on the processor, to upgrde it from E6300 to something like E6600?

I'm looking at the ibuypower site. It allows me to specify for all sorts of things I have no idea about, like th emotherboard. Eek. Help.

Can someone list what sorts of things I might want to choose?

Again, I'm going to use the computer for games. I plan to use the toolset of NWN2 which I understand requires the core2 and 2 gigs of RAM to run properly--are there power source, motherboard, and other considerations to take into account?

 

[sophiarosehips]

Sorry to keep posting like this... another question.
The card that comes on the pc I'm looking at is the GeF 7950GT with DVI + TV out video.
If I were to choose to upgrade it to the 8800GTX it adds $1000.
Does this mean that the original system doesn't have the PCI Express slot or something? Because when I looked at the abs site, upgrading from their card, which was somehting like a 7600, to the 8800GTX, added something like $200.
I don't want to shoot myself in the foot getting a computer with the wrong kind of slot... they're called AGP slots, right? And they are going extinct?
While I don't think I want to go for the 8800 at this time, I *do* want to be able to upgrade later.

 

[InFeXiOn]

The 7950 GT is more than adequate and is also PCI-E so you have nothing to worry about. Adds $1000 to add the 8800GTX? That's flippin' ridiculous. Just get the 7950 GT and you'll be set for a while, unless of course you decide in the end to build yourself - then go with the 8800GTS/GTX.

As for the added $100 for the e6300 to the e6600 - I'll let someone else weigh that out for you.