advice needed: building mini-box 3D sculpting system

[RenderRob]

I need advice on a system I am wanting to build.

I am working on plans for a SFF graphics system. The target software to be run will be Zbrush, Sculptris, Blender, XSI, Maya, Photoshop, GIMP, and potentially Mudbox. The sculpting apps are the main tools though, so it's mostly just Zbrush and Sculptris, but the others must perform well also. Will be using Windows.

I'm kind of obsessed with making the system as sexy as possible, so don't even bother suggesting a larger case. The only thing more sexy would be a tablet laptop that can match the needed performance specs for RAM, CPU, and hardware acceleration, and has a drawing surface with enough pressure resolution and responsiveness to be as useful as a wacom.

Here's what I'm thinking so far:

Cintiq 12WX
•http://www.wacom.com/en/Products/Ci...mpaign=C12WX&gclid=CKCrnfbrnKwCFUoaQgodLEJpCA

Case
•http://www.mini-box.com/Mini-Box-M350-Barebone-System
•http://resources.mini-box.com/online/M350/images/coveroff.jpg
•http://resources.mini-box.com/online/M350/images/back.jpg

Mini-ITX mainboard
•http://www.logicsupply.com/products/hr100_crm

2x 8GB DDR3:
•http://www.newegg.com/Store/BrandSub...p-_-Capac-_-NA

PSU
•http://www.mini-box.com/picoPSU-160-XT


I don't know if a graphics card will be completely necessary, or if it would even fit. Zbrush doesn't use a graphics card at all, as I understand it, but my other programs do. I'm thinking that a PCI cable could be used to mount a low profile card in a really strange spot, like across the front or along the side. The would mean customizing the case and I'm okay with that.

I don't know if any of these cards are appropriate for my needs.

Graphics card
•http://www.dectrader.com/533126-ZH1...lebase&utm_medium=shopping&utm_campaign=parts
•http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814195095
•http://www.directron.com/100505607.html?gsear=1
•http://www.amd.com/us/Documents/ATI-FirePro-V3800-datasheet.pdf

PCI riser card
•http://www.mini-box.com/I-O-shield-and-riser-card-for-D945GSEJT
PCI riser cable
•http://compare.ebay.com/like/290582026338?var=lv&ltyp=AllFixedPriceItemTypes&var=sbar
•http://www.amazon.com/PCI-Express-Ri.../dp/B0054CIL46


The HDD will be some kind of SSD. I think my friend said the 250GB drives are the reasonable choice right now, because anything larger will have an unreasonable dollar per gigabyte ratio.

 

[Dug]

1- The Cintiq 12 is too small for serious work. You are better off with a very good monitor and an Intuos4 medium. If you must work on screen, look for a used Cintiq 20wsx on ebay which you can usually get for around $1200. If you're lucky a Cintiq 21ux. Otherwise you will be zooming in and out constantly. Trust me, I use them everyday.


2- That isn't exactly a sexy itx case, and it will be loud, and you will not be able to get any usefull video card in there. I would look at Lian Li.

3- WTH are you looking at a $400 itx board?


4- A video card is not necessary, but if you are really serious about Photoshop (or any video editing with CS5.5) then you save a lot of time with an nvidia card with cuda. Even 3rd party filters will take advantage of it. ATI(AMD) won't do you any good.


Again, if you are really serious about your work and saving time, then forget about the thin case, you are wasting time for aesthetics. If you are that worried about it, just mount the case under the top of your desk so you can't see anything.

 

[RenderRob]

1- The Cintiq 12 is too small for serious work. You are better off with a very good monitor and an Intuos4 medium. If you must work on screen, look for a used Cintiq 20wsx on ebay which you can usually get for around $1200. If you're lucky a Cintiq 21ux. Otherwise you will be zooming in and out constantly. Trust me, I use them everyday.


2- That isn't exactly a sexy itx case, and it will be loud, and you will not be able to get any usefull video card in there. I would look at Lian Li.

3- WTH are you looking at a $400 itx board?


4- A video card is not necessary, but if you are really serious about Photoshop (or any video editing with CS5.5) then you save a lot of time with an nvidia card with cuda. Even 3rd party filters will take advantage of it. ATI(AMD) won't do you any good.


Again, if you are really serious about your work and saving time, then forget about the thin case, you are wasting time for aesthetics. If you are that worried about it, just mount the case under the top of your desk so you can't see anything.

Very valuable feedback. Thanks for the advice on the cintiq. I have been concerned about the small size of the 12wx and have been frustrated that they are not producing a model between the 12 and the 21ux. I have a large wacom tablet that I've used for a long time. I'm interested in the cintiq to reduce the number of peripherals.

The reason for the $400 ITX is that it supports 16 gigs of memory.

The noise issue is a good point. Any way to minimize noise without changing the case?

I'm not interested in mounting it to my desk. The reason for the SFF and reduction of peripherals is that I like the minimalism and ease of transport. I'm not currently working in CGI, it's only something that I have enjoyed since I was young and would like to do in my free time. So, putting together the absolute best system specs for my price is not as much my concern, as is my personal enjoyment of having a minimalist workstation that still allows me enough performance to sculpt in high detail. 16GB of RAM and a SSD HDD should do well to allow for that kind of performance?

Thanks so much for the helpful advice.

 

[DaveSimmons]

What about a Silverstone SG-05 / 06? It's bigger, but designed to cool a midrange gaming card properly so you can use a low-end Quadro or FireGL card if you need to.

Also, for 16 GB, you can get 2 x 8 GB DDR3 kits for $260.

 

[RenderRob]

What about a Silverstone SG-05 / 06? It's bigger, but designed to cool a midrange gaming card properly so you can use a low-end Quadro or FireGL card if you need to.

Also, for 16 GB, you can get 2 x 8 GB DDR3 kits for $260.

The silverstone sg-05 / 06 is too tall for my tastes. I know I'm just being really picky, but I don't think I'm being too stubborn. The Antec ISK 310-150 looks like it is still small enough that I would be happy with it. The Mini-Box M350 is the absolute smallest, and I caught the itch to own it after coming across one at work this week.

A friend of mine is suggesting that the built-in graphics might be fine for my uses. This is what he wrote.

The integrated graphics on Sandy Bridge are quite good. They're within the realm (off by a factor of 2 - 3x) from discrete GPUs. This seems bad, but it's fairly reasonable unless you're playing the latest games (Witcher 2, Metro 2033, Deus Ex, etc). My MacBook Air as a dual-core i7 with the integrated graphics, and I'm quite happy with its graphics performance. It's comparable to my iMac actually, unless I'm doing a intensive game.

Here are some benchmarks, maybe you could try the integrated graphics first, and if you're unhappy - get a low profile / slim GPU then
http://www.anandtech.com/show/4083/...core-i7-2600k-i5-2500k-core-i3-2100-tested/11

Were I to go with the Antec ISK, I would mainly be looking to reduce noise, and leaving room for the graphics card is also a consideration, but I could always change the case later.

 

[Dug]

Asus H67 ITX motherboard $85
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813131727

You can get 16GB if you want with 2x 8GB sticks, but to be honest, I never see anyone reach this. I work in a high end environment and know what works, and unless you are reserving ram for cache then you won't benefit from it.

If you don't need the speed of cuda for Photoshop, don't waste your money on a video card. The onboard on Intel is fine.

And if that's the case, I would just get a Macmini and add my own memory. Save yourself the headache of designing something, it's not worth the time and money.
The Macmini is dead silent and you won't find anything smaller or cheaper.

Either that or get an iMac and then you really will have nothing laying around as everything (speakers, etc, are built in).

 

[Zap]

Let me first start by telling you what is wrong with everything you listed. ^_^ Then I'll go through suggestions.

1) Mini Box M350 will not be a good choice. It is a very tight fit for everything, and is meant for more of an industrial application. There is no case cooling! It has vents, but that's it. It also doesn't support any slots, so kiss your video card aspirations goodbye. Also, probably no easy way to minimize noise with the M350 case.

2) Forget the motherboard. You can get low voltage desktop CPUs, which negates the need for notebook CPUs. Also, it only has 2 RAM slots so it doesn't support any more RAM than any other motherboard.

3) You linked to desktop memory. The motherboard you linked to uses notebook memory (SODIMM).

4) You'll need a power brick to go along with the Pico PSU.

5) That riser bracket to allow a card to be installed into the M350 case works ONLY with one particular motherboard.

6) As mentioned, either use onboard video or get an Nvidia card (for CUDA).

Ok, now how should you go about configuring a system that meets your, ahem, exacting desires?

Antec ISK 300 or 310 series is a good start. The 150W model isn't that power efficient, but you're probably looking at less power than a night light so not a biggie (unless you choose to obsess over it). The lower wattage one is 65W, which may be insufficient unless you go with a low power dual core (which is one option). You can also get the case with the 65W PSU and swap out for a Pico PSU. Note that the 65W PSU and the Pico PSUs all use external power bricks. One other thing is that the ISK 300/310 is built like a tank. The positive is that it is durable and thicker metals do a better job of damping = lower noise. The negative is that the case is heavy. However, it is very small so the weight is proportional.

The case uses 80mm fans, and you can configure it for reasonable airflow while still being reasonably quiet. The case has two 80mm fan spots, one populated by an Antec Tri Cool and the second is empty. The 150W version has a THIRD fan spot for the PSU fan.

Your choice of socket 1155 motherboard. I'd aim for something like the ASRock or Zotac Z68. The ASRock would be fine, unless you want built-in WiFi with the Zotac. You can also use a USB WiFi adapter.

For CPU, consider something like a Core i5-2405S. It is a 65W quad core with HD 3000 graphics. Alternately you can go with the ever popular Core i5-2500K. It should work fine in that case and easily run with 150W.

For graphics card, either use integrated graphics or a low profile single slot (to fit the case) Nvidia card. I'd recommend one with at least 48 CUDA cores to make it worthwhile.

 

[Mike64]

A friend of mine is suggesting that the built-in graphics might be fine for my uses.

Your friend isn't wrong as far as he or she gets, but ignores CUDA. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CUDA