Advice for car audio system

[D22]

From my very limited understanding, the most expensive piece of a car audio system should probably be the Amplifier. I've been thinking I need about 500-1000w RMS class D amp to drive the sub and at least 75w x 4 class A/B amp to drive the 4 car speakers. If I have all that, how important is the power rating of the headunit? I really just want it to be able to play MP3's. Satellite radio support would be a bonus. I also understand that I probably need a capacitor to make sure the battery doesn't fail. I'm thinking of putting just one really good 12" sub in the trunk, one that could handle the max output from the amplifier, and some high quality speakers. I won't be blasting it often, but I just want the capability there. Maybe a bit of a waste, but I'm sure it will come in handy.

Might just end up getting an amp with 5 channels and not getting an overpowering subwoofer though...who knows.

But anyway, am I on the right track? And how is this amp anyway? Specs look impressive... Amplifier

 

[nakedfrog]

No one "needs" 500-1000W RMS in their car.

 

[ThisIsMatt]

You DO NOT need a capacitor. Biggest waste of money you can have when you're on a small budget. Caps are bandaids, they don't do anything to help the battery. If you have light dimming it's really not a big issue. Your alternator puts out ~13-14.x volts, whereas your battery is 12v. When a large bass note hits, dimming occurs because the amp is drawing more current than the alternator can produce and you drop to battery voltage (and ta-da, lights are brighter at 14v than at 12v). This isn't a huge problem, and is only really solved by upgrading your alternator at the tune of 200-400 dollars depending on how big you go.

PowerAcoustik is not regarded very highly, and that is overkill both wattage and pricewise for your budget. You might consider a used JBL 1200.1 on ebay. Good solid amp, but they don't make that model anymore (it's the squarish looking one, not the newer GTO version). Supposedly the Elemental Designs NINE.1 is a good amp with like a 3 year warranty. I'm not a big fan of ED as a company, though. For subs you might consider Resonant Engineering (www.reaudio.com), ascendantaudio.com, adireaudio.com. The atlas and avalanche from ascendant are being raved as excellent bang for your buck.

If you have amps for your stage speakers then HU output doesn't matter. Just get one with 3 sets of pre-outs. I like Alpine, Pioneer, Panasonic (in that order). 75wpc true RMS is plenty for most coaxes and component sets. You'd probably be fine with 50wpc (typical headunits are really only 10-20wpc rms).

 

[ThisIsMatt]

Originally posted by: nakedfrog
No one "needs" 500-1000W RMS in their car.

Just like nobody needs 40gigs in a portable music player, a GeForce 12 88000 video card, 2GB of ram, etc etc.

Under a budget of 1k for a whole system, though, I agree it's not really smart unless he wants everything else to be crap.

 

[nakedfrog]

Originally posted by: ThisIsMatt
You DO NOT need a capacitor. Biggest waste of money you can have when you're on a small budget. Caps are bandaids, they don't do anything to help the battery. If you have light dimming it's really not a big issue. Your alternator puts out ~13-14.x volts, whereas your battery is 12v. When a large bass note hits, dimming occurs because the amp is drawing more current than the alternator can produce and you drop to battery voltage (and ta-da, lights are brighter at 14v than at 12v).

I thought the capacitor was intended to keep the alternator from frying?

Originally posted by: ThisIsMatt
Just like nobody needs 40gigs in a portable music player, a GeForce 12 88000 video card, 2GB of ram, etc etc.

500W-1000W peak I could see maybe, but that much RMS sounds outright ridiculous unless one wants to be deaf in very short order. My HU is only 72W RMS, 212W peak, and at full volume is enough to vibrate just about everything in the car and quite possibly damage your hearing.
I would say a more fitting analogy would be "Just like nobody needs 40TB in a portable music player"

 

[CTrain]

Originally posted by: ThisIsMatt
You DO NOT need a capacitor. Biggest waste of money you can have when you're on a small budget. Caps are bandaids, they don't do anything to help the battery. If you have light dimming it's really not a big issue. Your alternator puts out ~13-14.x volts, whereas your battery is 12v. When a large bass note hits, dimming occurs because the amp is drawing more current than the alternator can produce and you drop to battery voltage (and ta-da, lights are brighter at 14v than at 12v). This isn't a huge problem, and is only really solved by upgrading your alternator at the tune of 200-400 dollars depending on how big you go.

PowerAcoustik is not regarded very highly, and that is overkill both wattage and pricewise for your budget. You might consider a used JBL 1200.1 on ebay. Good solid amp, but they don't make that model anymore (it's the squarish looking one, not the newer GTO version). Supposedly the Elemental Designs NINE.1 is a good amp with like a 3 year warranty. I'm not a big fan of ED as a company, though. For subs you might consider Resonant Engineering (www.reaudio.com), ascendantaudio.com, adireaudio.com. The atlas and avalanche from ascendant are being raved as excellent bang for your buck.

If you have amps for your stage speakers then HU output doesn't matter. Just get one with 3 sets of pre-outs. I like Alpine, Pioneer, Panasonic (in that order). 75wpc true RMS is plenty for most coaxes and component sets. You'd probably be fine with 50wpc (typical headunits are really only 10-20wpc rms).

The JBL 1200.1 is a good mono amp.
I have a lesser version, 600.1 and its pretty good.
What you want to do is get a dual voice coil sub so you can run it at 2ohms to get the max out of your AMP.

I got this head unit Kenwood 789 on Ebay for $210 shipped brand new.
Really a great HU.

 

[Cleaner]

Better suggestion

1) Take money to investment broker and start funding your retirement now.
2) Put half into radio and half for charity.
3) Ignore first part of #2 because spending $500 on a R A D I O is retarded.
4) Put the grand onto some other debt you have like maybe the car itself?
5) I could go on forever but you'll figure it out.

 

[CTrain]

500W-1000W peak I could see maybe, but that much RMS sounds outright ridiculous unless one wants to be deaf in very short order. My HU is only 72W RMS, 212W peak, and at full volume is enough to vibrate just about everything in the car and quite possibly damage your hearing.
I would say a more fitting analogy would be "Just like nobody needs 40TB in a portable music player"

Bro, not mean as an insult but a no HU is ever going to rattle anything.
Most HU is rated 22-25w rms per channel so 25w/ch isn't much.

 

[Nutdotnet]

Originally posted by: nakedfrog

Originally posted by: ThisIsMatt
You DO NOT need a capacitor. Biggest waste of money you can have when you're on a small budget. Caps are bandaids, they don't do anything to help the battery. If you have light dimming it's really not a big issue. Your alternator puts out ~13-14.x volts, whereas your battery is 12v. When a large bass note hits, dimming occurs because the amp is drawing more current than the alternator can produce and you drop to battery voltage (and ta-da, lights are brighter at 14v than at 12v).

I thought the capacitor was intended to keep the alternator from frying?

Originally posted by: ThisIsMatt
Just like nobody needs 40gigs in a portable music player, a GeForce 12 88000 video card, 2GB of ram, etc etc.

500W-1000W peak I could see maybe, but that much RMS sounds outright ridiculous unless one wants to be deaf in very short order. My HU is only 72W RMS, 212W peak, and at full volume is enough to vibrate just about everything in the car and quite possibly damage your hearing.
I would say a more fitting analogy would be "Just like nobody needs 40TB in a portable music player"

Actually, no...you're wrong. A high RMS rating doesn't mean LOUD BOOMY NOISE. Lower hz freq. need more wattage to maintain a high response level (ie...sound good). It's about tuning it to your needs, which primarily comes from the type of box built and the QUALITY of the amp.

That being said, I think you can get what you're looking for probably $1500.

 

[RagingBITCH]

Originally posted by: Cleaner
Better suggestion

1) Take money to investment broker and start funding your retirement now.
2) Put half into radio and half for charity.
3) Ignore first part of #2 because spending $500 on a R A D I O is retarded.
4) Put the grand onto some other debt you have like maybe the car itself?
5) I could go on forever but you'll figure it out.

Um, #4 on your list basically invalidates your entire point. Idiot.

 

[arcenite]

Originally posted by: RagingBITCH

Originally posted by: Cleaner
Better suggestion

1) Take money to investment broker and start funding your retirement now.
2) Put half into radio and half for charity.
3) Ignore first part of #2 because spending $500 on a R A D I O is retarded.
4) Put the grand onto some other debt you have like maybe the car itself?
5) I could go on forever but you'll figure it out.

Um, #4 on your list basically invalidates your entire point. Idiot.

That was the idea.

 

[CTrain]

Originally posted by: Cleaner
Better suggestion

1) Take money to investment broker and start funding your retirement now.
2) Put half into radio and half for charity.
3) Ignore first part of #2 because spending $500 on a R A D I O is retarded.
4) Put the grand onto some other debt you have like maybe the car itself?
5) I could go on forever but you'll figure it out.

Better suggestion.

How about if you don't have any opinion on car audio, you just don't make a comment at all ??

Do you know what his finance is like to tell him he needs to save all his money ??
Whats the point of making money if you don't use it for a hobby you enjoy ??

Yeah, spending $1000 on car audio might be expensive to you but there alot of people who spends alot more on computers and upgrades and I don't see an outcry about it.
Everyone has a hobby and if his is car audio, let it be.

 

[Slvrtg277]

This is what I have:

Alpine 7894 HU.
MTX Blue Thunder Pro1502 amp.
Boston Accoustics components in front, BA coax's in rear.
Polk Audio 10" subs, 8 ohm parallel in hatch.

This sounds GREAT for my tastes and I do not even have an amp for any speakers aside from the subs. Something similar would probably run you a little over a grand, but it might be worth it.

 

[ThisIsMatt]

Originally posted by: nakedfrog

Originally posted by: ThisIsMatt
You DO NOT need a capacitor. Biggest waste of money you can have when you're on a small budget. Caps are bandaids, they don't do anything to help the battery. If you have light dimming it's really not a big issue. Your alternator puts out ~13-14.x volts, whereas your battery is 12v. When a large bass note hits, dimming occurs because the amp is drawing more current than the alternator can produce and you drop to battery voltage (and ta-da, lights are brighter at 14v than at 12v).

I thought the capacitor was intended to keep the alternator from frying?

Originally posted by: ThisIsMatt
Just like nobody needs 40gigs in a portable music player, a GeForce 12 88000 video card, 2GB of ram, etc etc.

500W-1000W peak I could see maybe, but that much RMS sounds outright ridiculous unless one wants to be deaf in very short order. My HU is only 72W RMS, 212W peak, and at full volume is enough to vibrate just about everything in the car and quite possibly damage your hearing.
I would say a more fitting analogy would be "Just like nobody needs 40TB in a portable music player"

A cap is meant to smooth out voltage dips (that's why they're often called a stiffening cap), but if you have a high wattage system they really can't keep up, and once you've drained the cap it needs to draw power to recharge. People have shown that they actually loose output when running a cap vs not.

1000w may be ridiculous, but it's fun. I have 2200w rms to my Adire Brahma 15 (1600w rms sub). I think you're missing the fact that some subs are more efficient than others, too. I also have 125w rms x 2 to my fronts. I also have 2400w rms available to my home sub, an Adire Tumult. Some people just like bass, alright! 😀

 

[CTrain]

Originally posted by: Slvrtg277
This is what I have:

Alpine 7894 HU.
MTX Blue Thunder Pro1502 amp.
Boston Accoustics components in front, BA coax's in rear.
Polk Audio 10" subs, 8 ohm parallel in hatch.

This sounds GREAT for my tastes and I do not even have an amp for any speakers aside from the subs. Something similar would probably run you a little over a grand, but it might be worth it.

Why in the world are you running the subs at 8ohms ??
You running it at a loss of power.

 

[ThisIsMatt]

Oh, I guess I should list what I have too 😛

Alpine 9833 HU
CDT CL-62 Components
No rear fill
RF 500a2 to components
Adire Brahma 15" in about 4 cubes tuned to 32hz
JBL BPx2200.1 to sub

I need to upgrade my wiring from 4ga to 1/0ga but I don't feel like it right now 😛
Also have my big 3 upgraded to 4ga (alt to battery, engine to ground, battery to ground).

 

[Slvrtg277]

Originally posted by: CTrain

Originally posted by: Slvrtg277
This is what I have:

Alpine 7894 HU.
MTX Blue Thunder Pro1502 amp.
Boston Accoustics components in front, BA coax's in rear.
Polk Audio 10" subs, 8 ohm parallel in hatch.

This sounds GREAT for my tastes and I do not even have an amp for any speakers aside from the subs. Something similar would probably run you a little over a grand, but it might be worth it.

Why in the world are you running the subs at 8ohms ??
You running it at a loss of power.

The subs are 8 ohm each, wired in parallel for a 4 ohm load on the amp, which is bridged. Keeps the bass from being boomy and overpowering. My car is a hatchback and I listen to mostly heavy rock. I like it tight.

 

[CTrain]

Originally posted by: Slvrtg277

Originally posted by: CTrain

Originally posted by: Slvrtg277
This is what I have:

Alpine 7894 HU.
MTX Blue Thunder Pro1502 amp.
Boston Accoustics components in front, BA coax's in rear.
Polk Audio 10" subs, 8 ohm parallel in hatch.

This sounds GREAT for my tastes and I do not even have an amp for any speakers aside from the subs. Something similar would probably run you a little over a grand, but it might be worth it.

Why in the world are you running the subs at 8ohms ??
You running it at a loss of power.

The subs are 8 ohm each, wired in parallel for a 4 ohm load on the amp, which is bridged. Keeps the bass from being boomy and overpowering. My car is a hatchback and I listen to mostly heavy rock. I like it tight.

Gotcha.
I thought you might of had 2 DVC 4 ohms SUBs and ran them at 8ohms.

 

[lastig21]

I personally am not a fan of over the top bass, so I won't make a recomendation on it.

If you get a high quality A/B amp, you could probably skimp on your headunit if you wanted. I personally like JL amps, but any amp with accurate ratings and a clean signal will work. If you already have a stock cd player in the car, you could amp its output and keep a stock looking install with improved sound (less chance of a break in). If you upgrade the headunit, Alpine is my brand of choice.

A $1000 budget for a complete install does not leave you much room for a high quality set of speakers. My favorite speakers were a set of dynaudio's that I heard, but I personally have some focal 165W's. If you could find a used or inexpensive set of focals, they have amazing clarity and accuracy. I have heard several recommendations for the CDT-61A component set for budget systems. Good clarity/range/power handling for a $150 set of components. You can get them from www.thezeb.com.

If you are going to be doing alot of driving, I would suggest getting high quality parts now (which probably means just doing component speakers/amp or a sub/box/amp) and add the rest of your system when you have some more cash. I went cheap the first time, and ended up buying two complete systems.

 

[CTrain]

You can easily get a decent system for $1000.

Personally, I wouldn't skimp on the HU, its your source of music so I'd look for a decent unit.

$160- Kenwood KD-589. Probably the cheapest HU you can get with a 24-bit converter. Most HU uses 1-bit converter. 3 sets of 4v preouts. Or you can get the 789 for $210 instead.

$100- Profile CL600. 150w x 2 rms at 4ohms. I personally have the CL640(4 channel amp) and its the best inexpensive amp brand you can get. The amp has been rock solid and pretty much does its rated power.

$150- CDT CL-61. Many have recommend these COMPS.

So thats about $400.
That leaves you around $600 left for sub(s) and a mono/2 channel amp to drive the subs.
Of course, all this depends on if you know how to hook all of this stuff.

 

[shortspanishguy]

Eclipse 8053 (awesome SQ)
Seas Lotus Components (Handmade in Norway)
Memphis Belle amp: 75x4 and 1100 x1 @ 13.8 volts (Very Solid amp)
Resonant Engineering XXX 15" Sealed (recommended, similar to a Brahma)

 

[nakedfrog]

Originally posted by: ThisIsMatt
A cap is meant to smooth out voltage dips (that's why they're often called a stiffening cap), but if you have a high wattage system they really can't keep up, and once you've drained the cap it needs to draw power to recharge. People have shown that they actually loose output when running a cap vs not.

1000w may be ridiculous, but it's fun. I have 2200w rms to my Adire Brahma 15 (1600w rms sub). I think you're missing the fact that some subs are more efficient than others, too. I also have 125w rms x 2 to my fronts. I also have 2400w rms available to my home sub, an Adire Tumult. Some people just like bass, alright! 😀

I like bass too... and with the level of bass put out by my 212W HU and my 500W home stereo, I can only imagine your neighbors hate you sometimes.

 

[DPmaster]

Originally posted by: nakedfrog

Originally posted by: ThisIsMatt
You DO NOT need a capacitor. Biggest waste of money you can have when you're on a small budget. Caps are bandaids, they don't do anything to help the battery. If you have light dimming it's really not a big issue. Your alternator puts out ~13-14.x volts, whereas your battery is 12v. When a large bass note hits, dimming occurs because the amp is drawing more current than the alternator can produce and you drop to battery voltage (and ta-da, lights are brighter at 14v than at 12v).

I thought the capacitor was intended to keep the alternator from frying?

Originally posted by: ThisIsMatt
Just like nobody needs 40gigs in a portable music player, a GeForce 12 88000 video card, 2GB of ram, etc etc.

500W-1000W peak I could see maybe, but that much RMS sounds outright ridiculous unless one wants to be deaf in very short order. My HU is only 72W RMS, 212W peak, and at full volume is enough to vibrate just about everything in the car and quite possibly damage your hearing.
I would say a more fitting analogy would be "Just like nobody needs 40TB in a portable music player"

What kind of car do you have? I'm running 1550W RMS and my car doesn't rattle enough to be noticeable.

 

[RbSX]

First piece of advice, buy used.. everything new is roughly double to triple the price.

 

[DPmaster]

Originally posted by: CTrain

Originally posted by: Cleaner
Better suggestion

1) Take money to investment broker and start funding your retirement now.
2) Put half into radio and half for charity.
3) Ignore first part of #2 because spending $500 on a R A D I O is retarded.
4) Put the grand onto some other debt you have like maybe the car itself?
5) I could go on forever but you'll figure it out.

Better suggestion.

How about if you don't have any opinion on car audio, you just don't make a comment at all ??

Do you know what his finance is like to tell him he needs to save all his money ??
Whats the point of making money if you don't use it for a hobby you enjoy ??

Yeah, spending $1000 on car audio might be expensive to you but there alot of people who spends alot more on computers and upgrades and I don't see an outcry about it.
Everyone has a hobby and if his is car audio, let it be.

Yep. It's all relative to the person and what they perceive to be worthy of spending money on. While saving up money for retirement is a good idea (and I HIGHLY recommend it), you have to at least spend some money for something. That's the whole point of working right? To buy things that you want. If you're not going to spend that money for anything, you might as well not even work. What are you going to do with all of that money when you retire? Buy a buttload of adult diapers so you can crap yourself every time you think of the things you could have done when you were younger but can't now because you're too old? I have an aunt who hoards her money and never uses it. She never buys anything. Period. Yes she has a lot of money but she will have it buried with her when she dies. That just seems pointless to me.