Adobe on Atom?

[KitsuneStudios]

Hi all.

I'm trying to decide between a Lenovo ThinkPad Tablet 2 (Clover trail Atom) and a Surface Pro. My primary desire for this is a digital sketchbook, and unfortunately, all the reviews for these devices tend to be incredibly superficial when it comes to actually doing art on one.

So: has anyone actually used a Clover Trail tablet with Adobe CS6, or a similar graphics pack?

I'm not asking for killer performance, I have a desktop for that. I would like to know if the device is capable of drawing smoothly in, say, an 8-layer 1920x1080 image in Photoshop, Flash or any other sketching program.

 

[poofyhairguy]

The idea of real Adobe on an Atom makes me cringe.

I would think for what you want is why they make Core-based tablets:

http://www.amazon.com/Acer-Iconia-W7...ref=pd_cp_pc_1

 

[Ravynmagi]

Chrome runs a bit laggy on my Atom tablet. I can't even imagine what Photoshop would be like.

 

[Eug]

Don't do it!

I have dual-core Atom 330 (dual 1.6 GHz) with NVIDIA ION running on Windows 7 and it was painfully slow with a platter drive. With an SSD, it's significantly better, but still slow. Even just surfing on it feels slow. I use it for a guest computer, although sometimes I've used it as an HTPC or just a VPN machine.

 

[KitsuneStudios]

poofyhairguy: Yes, this is why I'm looking at the Surface Pro as well. It has to have a digitizing pressure sensitive pen.

The specs on the new Atom tablets are actually not far off from my old iMac with the T2400 Core Duo at 1830 MHz, which I would consider to be acceptable performance for a mobile sketchbook. Since the optimization, storage and graphics systems are so different, I don't trust that as a comparison without some evidence. =/

 

[poofyhairguy]

poofyhairguy: Yes, this is why I'm looking at the Surface Pro as well. It has to have a digitizing pressure sensitive pen.

The specs on the new Atom tablets are actually not far off from my old iMac with the T2400 Core Duo at 1830 MHz, which I would consider to be acceptable performance for a mobile sketchbook. Since the optimization, storage and graphics systems are so different, I don't trust that as a comparison without some evidence. =/

Actually as far as pure CPU performance you are close. The iMac's CPU would still be stronger though (790 on benchmark compared to 679):

http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Atom+Z2760+@+1.80GHz

http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Core+Duo+T2400+@+1.83GHz

 

[Eug]

Well, Core Duo T2400 is slow too, but it's still faster than Atom Z2760.

 

[poofyhairguy]

So in comparison the i5 in the surface pro is 4.5 times as fast:

http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Core+i5-3317U+@+1.70GHz

Given that that is where modern hardware is and you plan to use modern software I would suggest paying the extra for so much more power.

 

[dagamer34]

No. Just no. An Atom system will easily use up (or correctly cache) most of the 2GB of RAM available, and the storage drive on an Atom system is basically a SD card. Just no.

If you want any amount of performance that doesn't frustrate you constantly, get the Surface Pro. The only downside is battery life (~4hrs with moderate use).

Also, finding a Thinkpad Tablet 2 with a stylus (the 27U version, not the 23U) is a lot harder than it looks. At a minimum, you're either purchasing it from a less than well known 3rd party or waiting a month from Lenovo. Surface Pro is much easier to find.

 

[pantsaregood]

Considering anything less than an i5 to run programs made by Adobe would be an awful mistake. Just opening a PDF without horrendous lag while scrolling requires a bleeding-edge CPU, apparently.

 

[KitsuneStudios]

At a minimum, you're either purchasing it from a less than well known 3rd party or waiting a month from Lenovo. Surface Pro is much easier to find.

Yeah, but not the 128GB version. If I'm getting a system that can actually play games, I'm going to be loading games onto it.

Thanks all. I'd still like to hear from someone with first-hand experience. The weight, resolution, battery life, pen storage, keyboard and cost all seem better on the Lenovo. Pointless if it doesn't work of course.

 

[dagamer34]

Yeah, but not the 128GB version. If I'm getting a system that can actually play games, I'm going to be loading games onto it.

Thanks all. I'd still like to hear from someone with first-hand experience. The weight, resolution, battery life, pen storage, keyboard and cost all seem better on the Lenovo. Pointless if it doesn't work of course.

You might be able to get the 128GB version tomorrow from Best Buy or a Microsoft Store. However the Thinkpad Tablet 2 with a stylus (and the stylus must be included when you buy it) is a 4 week wait from Lenovo. Slightly harder...

 

[hans030390]

I've seen someone use a sketching/art program on their Atom-based Windows 8 tablet, but I have no idea what it was or if it offers any of the same functionality you need.

You could probably run older versions of Adobe's programs without too much of an issue, but I wouldn't dream of running CS6 on it.

 

[IamDavid]

Run it on my Samsung Ativ smart pc, windows 8 no problem.

people need to quit looking at benchmarks that mean nothing in the real world.

wait for the Lenovo helix if your not sure.

 

[wirednuts]

i would try an e350 or 450 before i try an atom...

 

[Eug]

i would try an e350 or 450 before i try an atom...

The E350 is faster but is pretty slow too.

http://cpuboss.com/cpus/Intel-Atom-Z2760-vs-AMD-E-350#performance

Plus, the bigger problem with E350 is that it uses way more power.

 

[Whiskey16]

I have dual-core Atom 330 (dual 1.6 GHz) with NVIDIA ION running on Windows 7 and it was painfully slow with a platter drive.

Not at all an apples-apples comparison on all accounts.

Your different processor, likely different memory bandwidth, mechanical HDD, and lack of Windows 8 unfortunately discount your experience.

The current Clovertrail tablets running Windows 8 are not the netbook or nettops lacklustre performers of yesterday.

That said, I wouldn't attempt anything that is processor demanding on these devices, but simply sketching and without applying extensive filters may be fine with the current generation of devices. Look at IamDavid and possible other posts for qualitative real world experience.

 

[Eug]

Not at all an apples-apples comparison on all accounts.

Your different processor, likely different memory bandwidth, mechanical HDD, and lack of Windows 8 unfortunately discount your experience.

The current Clovertrail tablets running Windows 8 are not the netbook or nettops lacklustre performers of yesterday.

That said, I wouldn't attempt anything that is processor demanding on these devices, but simply sketching and without applying extensive filters may be fine with the current generation of devices. Look at IamDavid and possible other posts for qualitative real world experience.

Perhaps, but similar hardware with a significantly faster CPU runs much, much better. Furthermore, you selectively quoted. In the second half of the post I indicated I installed an SSD. With SSD the machine is still is very slow, even just surfing or installing OS updates.

The point here is that the CPU is a serious limiting factor in this context. We're not recommending getting he get a Core i7 or something. We're just saying that for a modern resource heavy OS like full-on Windows, even the fastest Atom is sluggish, and a lot of software out there can't really take full advantage of 4-thread computing anyway.

Remember, he's considering Core Duo as barebones entry level. This CPU struggles to meet that threshold.

 

[Whiskey16]

Remember, he's considering Core Duo as barebones entry level. This CPU struggles to meet that threshold.

True. We're a year or two away to PCs being released to market with the thermal and near power drain of the current Clovertrail SOCs, but with more powerful CPU & GPUs...

We're so close to light and silent computing that can make ultramobile/tablet PCs perform on par for a high proportion of typical desktop use.

On a slightly expanded note, this forum alone has many threads conflating PC discussion with that of consumer mobile gadgets and relative toys such as iOS/Android devices. There is present confusion that a full OS and far more capable Windows 8 tablet is to be isolated from the core Hardware & Technology section and relegated to the simple consumer devices of this forum's banner. I think that it's time for the Hardware & Technology section to either add another forum for full OS touchscreen/tablet devices or add such devices into the existing SFF, Notebooks, Pre-Built/Barebones PCs forum mission where discussion such as what an Atom system is capable of already makes sense.

 

[KitsuneStudios]

Well, I finally broke down and went for... the Samsung AITV 700t with the keyboard. It was in stock and on sale, only $70 more than a Surface Pro with a Type Cover. The keyboard has a stiff hinge, and the screen is about 1.5 inches larger. Unlike a Surface, I can actually use this thing in my lap when reclining.

Frankly, I've been bouncing back and forth on whether to return it. It was incredibly flaky out of the box, and trying to adjust the settings munged it up so badly that I had to reset to factory defaults. For a while it looked like it wouldn't even allow me to draw in Flash Professional CS6 and keep pressure sensitivity.

I took the time to download all the Windows and Samsung patches and drivers, so it's much more stable now. Rolling back the TabletPC drivers from Wacom's site fixed Flash, too, so it now officially does everything I need.

Right now I'm trying to decide if I should take it back in to see if I can get one with a less flaky keyboard, or simply spring for the extended warrantee. It's not bad most of the time, but it disconnects frequently when I try and reposition it on my lap. It's also a known issue with this model, so I'm not sure if a new one will help, or be worse off.

 

[Eug]

Work machine + flakiness should not go together IMO.

 

[podspi]

Had the Sam issue with my ATIV (500t). Initial image and firmware are absolutely terrible. Stability is worlds better after installing all the updates.

 

[Selenium_Glow]

Paint Tools SAI and OpenCanvas lite works on Atom (windows 7), but with a grand limitation on the canvas size and will become laggy after 10 to 15 layers or so... I dunno photoshop, but there are many alternative sketching apps on iPad/Nexus. It should be very soon that you'd get equivalent for lightweight surface/windows 8 tablets.

 

[OBLAMA2009]

dont even try it. i bought an atom motherboard a few years ago, but my netbook was so retarded that i never even bothered to build the desktop

 

[KitsuneStudios]

Paint Tools SAI and OpenCanvas lite works on Atom (windows 7), but with a grand limitation on the canvas size and will become laggy after 10 to 15 layers or so... I dunno photoshop, but there are many alternative sketching apps on iPad/Nexus. It should be very soon that you'd get equivalent for lightweight surface/windows 8 tablets.

Yeah. Photoshop CS6 isn't all that smooth for drawing on the i5 even, but it's passable if you draw a little slower. Flash is lovely with the driver reversion, which makes this a viable work machine (don't use the keyboard in that mode. I've rearranged the screen to work in portrait mode, and it's pretty nice.