Administrator Bremer/General Kimmet; US will Punish Security Contractors Killers, Re-Gain control of Fallujah
- Thread starter tnitsuj
- Start date
Get a sense of humor.
They won't find the killers, and the contractors did die in vain, no matter what Bremmer says.
Corn
Diamond Member
- Nov 12, 1999
- 6,390
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Interesting what our peace loving liberal friends on this forum find to be humorous.
You may be right Tool, the killers may never be found.......but since I'm civilized I don't find that fact to be very funny. But hey, it's good to know that such things amuse you, much as I'm sure that you really do hope the carnage continues in Iraq......disgusting. :disgust:
You may be right Tool, the killers may never be found.......but since I'm civilized I don't find that fact to be very funny. But hey, it's good to know that such things amuse you, much as I'm sure that you really do hope the carnage continues in Iraq......disgusting. :disgust:
Things Are Getting Much Worse. It's Not Just A "Spike" Or An "Uptick" In Violence
Robert Fisk
April 01, 2004 "The Independent" -- What has happened to the Coalition Provisional Authority, also known as the occupying power?
Things are getting worse, much worse in Iraq. Yesterday's horrors proved that. Yet just a day earlier, Brigadier General Mark Kimmitt, America's deputy director of military operations, assured us that there was only an "uptick" in violence in Iraq.
Not a sudden wave of violence, mark you, not a down-to-earth increase, not even a "spike" in violence - another of the general's favourite expressions. No, just a teeny-weeny, ever-so small, innocent little "uptick". In fact, he said it was a "slight uptick".
Our hands were numb, recording all this, so swiftly did General Kimmitt take us through the little uptick.
A marine vehicle blown off the road near Fallujah, a marine killed, a second attack with small-arms fire on the same troops, an attack on an Iraqi paramilitary recruiting station on the 14th July Road, a soldier killed near Ramadi, two Britons hurt in Basra violence, a suicide bombing against the home of the Hillah police chief, an Iraqi shot at a checkpoint, US soldiers wounded in Mosul ... All this was just 17 hours before Fallujah civilians dragged the cremated remains of a Westerner through the streets of their city.
When you go to the manicured lawns and villas of the so-called "Green Zone" in Baghdad, you get this odd, weird feeling; that here is a place so isolated, so ostentatiously secure - it is not secure of course, since mortars are regularly fired into the compound - that it has no contact with the outside world. Here the US proconsul. Paul Bremer. lives in Saddam Hussein's former palace. There are fewer than 100 days before he supposedly hands over the "sovereignty" of Iraq to America's own new hand-picked Iraqi government, which will hold elections at an unknown date. And so within the palace walls, the occupying power believes in optimism, progress and political development.
When someone asked - just a few hours before yesterday's horror - about the deteriorating security in Mosul, General Kimmitt snapped back that this was only "an assessment that you may be making".
Every week, it is like this. From the hot, dangerous streets of Baghdad with their electricity cuts and gunfire - and an awful lot of "upticks" which never get recorded - we make our way through palisades of concrete drums, US Army checkpoints and searches, into a vast, air-conditioned conference centre, a cavernous Saddamite structure built in 1981 for presidential summits.
Next to General Kimmitt often stands Dan Senor, spokesman for the Coalition Provisional Authority who, with his frameless glasses, unsmiling demeanour and his occasional, fearful glances at the general when the latter faces a dodgy question, resembles the kind of doctor who clears his throat and quietly advises his patients to settle their affairs. He almost smiled when General Kimmitt announced his army's intention to conduct "precision operations" against "anti-Coalition elements and enemies of the Iraqi people". But wasn't this all a bit Soviet? Didn't the Red Army conduct operations against "anti-socialist elements and enemies of the Afghan people"?
But there was an interesting twist - horribly ironic in the face of yesterday's butchery - in General Kimmitt's narrative. Why, I asked him, did he refer sometimes to "terrorists" and at other times to "insurgents"? Surely if you could leap from being a terrorist to being an insurgent, then with the next little hop, skip and jump, you become a "freedom-fighter". Mr Senor gave the general one of his fearful looks. He needn't have bothered. General Kimmitt is a much smoother operator than his civilian counterpart. There were, the general explained, the Fallujah version who were insurgents, and then the al-Qa'ida version who attack mosques, hotels, religious festivals and who were terrorists.
So, it seems, there are now in Iraq good terrorists and bad terrorists, there are common-or-garden insurgents and supremely awful terrorists, the kind against which President George Bush took us to war in Iraq when there weren't any terrorists actually here, though there are now. And therein lies the problem. From inside the Green Zone on the banks of the Tigris, you can believe anything. How far can the occupying powers take war-spin before the world stops believing anything they say?
At Wednesday's Five o'Clock Follies, two armed American soldiers stood guard at both doors - watching us, not the approach to the doors - while a backdrop carried a vast shield with the words "Equality, Security, Liberty, Justice". Did I detect, among my colleagues, a quickening of our step as we headed back through the thousands of tons of concrete to the smog and fear of the streets outside? Baghdad may be dangerous. But at least it's on Planet Earth.
linky
Robert Fisk
April 01, 2004 "The Independent" -- What has happened to the Coalition Provisional Authority, also known as the occupying power?
Things are getting worse, much worse in Iraq. Yesterday's horrors proved that. Yet just a day earlier, Brigadier General Mark Kimmitt, America's deputy director of military operations, assured us that there was only an "uptick" in violence in Iraq.
Not a sudden wave of violence, mark you, not a down-to-earth increase, not even a "spike" in violence - another of the general's favourite expressions. No, just a teeny-weeny, ever-so small, innocent little "uptick". In fact, he said it was a "slight uptick".
Our hands were numb, recording all this, so swiftly did General Kimmitt take us through the little uptick.
A marine vehicle blown off the road near Fallujah, a marine killed, a second attack with small-arms fire on the same troops, an attack on an Iraqi paramilitary recruiting station on the 14th July Road, a soldier killed near Ramadi, two Britons hurt in Basra violence, a suicide bombing against the home of the Hillah police chief, an Iraqi shot at a checkpoint, US soldiers wounded in Mosul ... All this was just 17 hours before Fallujah civilians dragged the cremated remains of a Westerner through the streets of their city.
When you go to the manicured lawns and villas of the so-called "Green Zone" in Baghdad, you get this odd, weird feeling; that here is a place so isolated, so ostentatiously secure - it is not secure of course, since mortars are regularly fired into the compound - that it has no contact with the outside world. Here the US proconsul. Paul Bremer. lives in Saddam Hussein's former palace. There are fewer than 100 days before he supposedly hands over the "sovereignty" of Iraq to America's own new hand-picked Iraqi government, which will hold elections at an unknown date. And so within the palace walls, the occupying power believes in optimism, progress and political development.
When someone asked - just a few hours before yesterday's horror - about the deteriorating security in Mosul, General Kimmitt snapped back that this was only "an assessment that you may be making".
Every week, it is like this. From the hot, dangerous streets of Baghdad with their electricity cuts and gunfire - and an awful lot of "upticks" which never get recorded - we make our way through palisades of concrete drums, US Army checkpoints and searches, into a vast, air-conditioned conference centre, a cavernous Saddamite structure built in 1981 for presidential summits.
Next to General Kimmitt often stands Dan Senor, spokesman for the Coalition Provisional Authority who, with his frameless glasses, unsmiling demeanour and his occasional, fearful glances at the general when the latter faces a dodgy question, resembles the kind of doctor who clears his throat and quietly advises his patients to settle their affairs. He almost smiled when General Kimmitt announced his army's intention to conduct "precision operations" against "anti-Coalition elements and enemies of the Iraqi people". But wasn't this all a bit Soviet? Didn't the Red Army conduct operations against "anti-socialist elements and enemies of the Afghan people"?
But there was an interesting twist - horribly ironic in the face of yesterday's butchery - in General Kimmitt's narrative. Why, I asked him, did he refer sometimes to "terrorists" and at other times to "insurgents"? Surely if you could leap from being a terrorist to being an insurgent, then with the next little hop, skip and jump, you become a "freedom-fighter". Mr Senor gave the general one of his fearful looks. He needn't have bothered. General Kimmitt is a much smoother operator than his civilian counterpart. There were, the general explained, the Fallujah version who were insurgents, and then the al-Qa'ida version who attack mosques, hotels, religious festivals and who were terrorists.
So, it seems, there are now in Iraq good terrorists and bad terrorists, there are common-or-garden insurgents and supremely awful terrorists, the kind against which President George Bush took us to war in Iraq when there weren't any terrorists actually here, though there are now. And therein lies the problem. From inside the Green Zone on the banks of the Tigris, you can believe anything. How far can the occupying powers take war-spin before the world stops believing anything they say?
At Wednesday's Five o'Clock Follies, two armed American soldiers stood guard at both doors - watching us, not the approach to the doors - while a backdrop carried a vast shield with the words "Equality, Security, Liberty, Justice". Did I detect, among my colleagues, a quickening of our step as we headed back through the thousands of tons of concrete to the smog and fear of the streets outside? Baghdad may be dangerous. But at least it's on Planet Earth.
linky
I have very little in the way of a sense of humor when it comes to people dying. You may not like the war or the reasons for it as I certainly do not, nor may you approve of the conduct, as I certainly do not, but ALWAYS REMEMBER WHICH SIDE YOU ARE ON!!
I highly doubt the US will "punish" anyone. How do you punish a whole city? There were kids and children stomping on the dead bodies. If it were upto me, I would level the whole damn city!!!! :|
Here's US response:
yada yada yada... Not sure if it will work.
What are your suggestions to do?
There's:
Passions: leveling the city
Me: Round up everyone in the city, and I do mean everyone. From the videos, identify and detain the people in the videos. Then dump the rest in 3 separate spots in Kurdish territory and ask the Kurds to take control of the with Kurdish justice.
Others: ???
link
yada yada yada... Not sure if it will work.
What are your suggestions to do?
There's:
Passions: leveling the city
Me: Round up everyone in the city, and I do mean everyone. From the videos, identify and detain the people in the videos. Then dump the rest in 3 separate spots in Kurdish territory and ask the Kurds to take control of the with Kurdish justice.
Others: ???
Ahh, come on. Bremmer comes out on April 1'st telling us how he is going ot punish the killers and that the contractors didn't die in vain, and we are supposed to take him seriously? They will never find the killers, and even if they do, what are they gonna do, kill the whole mob? As far as dying in vain, their deaths accomplished nothing, so they did die in vain. So while the killings may be sad, the attempt to put lipstick on this pig is laughable.
Oh, please. 90% of this board is a cheap shot at Bush/conservatives/Republicans. I guess it's for the better since it cuts the trolls off from the rest of the boards here.
Sub human bastards?
What about those that test dumdum bullets on Iraqis. Maybe there is a reason private contractors aren't popular in Iraq.
------
Private Contractor Tests New Illegal Ammo By, Killing An Iraqi
1-shot killer. This 5.56mm round has all the stopping power you need ? but you can?t use it. Here?s why:
By John G. Roos
Special to the Times
12/01/03: (The Army Times) Ben Thomas and three colleagues were driving north out of Baghdad in an SUV on a clear mid-September morning, headed down a dirt road into a rural village, when gunmen in several surrounding buildings opened fire on them.
In a brief but intense firefight, Thomas hit one of the attackers with a single shot from his M4 carbine at a distance he estimates was 100 to 110 yards.
He hit the man in the buttocks, a wound that typically is not fatal. But this round appeared to kill the assailant instantly.
?It entered his butt and completely destroyed everything in the lower left section of his stomach ... everything was torn apart,? Thomas said.
Thomas, a security consultant with a private company contracted by the government, recorded the first known enemy kill using a new ? and controversial ? bullet.
The bullet is so controversial that if Thomas, a former SEAL, had been on active duty, he would have been court-martialed for using it. The ammunition is ?nonstandard? and hasn?t passed the military?s approval process.
?The way I explain what happened to people who weren?t there is ? this stuff was like hitting somebody with a miniature explosive round,? he said, even though the ammo does not have an explosive tip. ?Nobody believed that this guy died from a butt shot.?
The bullet Thomas fired was an armor-piercing, limited-penetration round manufactured by RBCD of San Antonio.
etc.
linky
What about those that test dumdum bullets on Iraqis. Maybe there is a reason private contractors aren't popular in Iraq.
------
Private Contractor Tests New Illegal Ammo By, Killing An Iraqi
1-shot killer. This 5.56mm round has all the stopping power you need ? but you can?t use it. Here?s why:
By John G. Roos
Special to the Times
12/01/03: (The Army Times) Ben Thomas and three colleagues were driving north out of Baghdad in an SUV on a clear mid-September morning, headed down a dirt road into a rural village, when gunmen in several surrounding buildings opened fire on them.
In a brief but intense firefight, Thomas hit one of the attackers with a single shot from his M4 carbine at a distance he estimates was 100 to 110 yards.
He hit the man in the buttocks, a wound that typically is not fatal. But this round appeared to kill the assailant instantly.
?It entered his butt and completely destroyed everything in the lower left section of his stomach ... everything was torn apart,? Thomas said.
Thomas, a security consultant with a private company contracted by the government, recorded the first known enemy kill using a new ? and controversial ? bullet.
The bullet is so controversial that if Thomas, a former SEAL, had been on active duty, he would have been court-martialed for using it. The ammunition is ?nonstandard? and hasn?t passed the military?s approval process.
?The way I explain what happened to people who weren?t there is ? this stuff was like hitting somebody with a miniature explosive round,? he said, even though the ammo does not have an explosive tip. ?Nobody believed that this guy died from a butt shot.?
The bullet Thomas fired was an armor-piercing, limited-penetration round manufactured by RBCD of San Antonio.
etc.
linky
I agree with Red, We really need to find a new leader for this country- Neither Bush or Kerry really care about "The People"
It seems from reading the article that the bullet is controversial not for its deadly effects but because of the politics of the military. About how it failed a ballistic test in 2002 and SOCom is reluctant to test it again, but Congress is calling for them to test and adopt the bullets.
I think that the reason private contractors aren't popular in Iraq because they kill insurgents, who shoot at them, with more effective bullets is a good thing
Here is another idea. Siege the whole city, let nothing enter or leave. Let them all rot and waste away. Anyone who dares to escape, gets a load full of metal stuck into their brains. That was the most vile and repluse thing to see, children smiling and ripping apart another human. They are not human to me, they are wild animals.
With Saddam we could have it both ways. Have him supress the radicals, and make us look good in comparison to him. Now it's our job to supress them, and all the blame and the burden is on us. Good job, Dumbya.
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