Adding a new outlet in the garage - need help!

[grohl]

So, I am buying a welder to put in the garage.


welder link

I need to put a 220v outlet in the garage. Obviously I have never done this before, but I am not afraid of figuring out how to do it on my own.

The welder calls for 25 amp so I figured I would need a new 2 pole 30 amp breaker switch at the main box. Of course, the main is on the opposite side of the house, I figure it's gonna take about 75 feet of wire to make it down both walls and along the attic.

So, is 10/2 Romex overkill? I am sure there is a formula to figure the amp/length/wire thickness. I have put in other 110v outlets on existing circuits so I'm not afraid.

 

[olds]

10/2 will not work

 

[JohnCU]

hmm i wish my EE degree came with practical classes. 25 A is a lot of current though, especially over 75ft.

 

[grohl]

Originally posted by: oldsmoboat
10/2 will not work

well, crap. besides calling a pro, what can I do?

 

[Praetor]

Originally posted by: grohl

Originally posted by: oldsmoboat
10/2 will not work

well, crap. besides calling a pro, what can I do?

Make friends with a pro and buy him beer to help you?

 

[BigJ]

A run that long would best be served by 8/3. Yes, you could squeak by on 10/3. 10/2 will not work.

EDIT: Hold on, I posted without reading the specs on the welder.

EDIT 2: OP, you do not need a 25A circuit. You need a 50A circuit.

 

[blurredvision]

Originally posted by: grohl

Originally posted by: oldsmoboat
10/2 will not work

well, crap. besides calling a pro, what can I do?

Well, if oldsmoboat wasn't such a grumpy ass, maybe he could share a bit more of his obvious wisdom on the subject.

 

[olds]

Originally posted by: blurredvision

Originally posted by: grohl

Originally posted by: oldsmoboat
10/2 will not work

well, crap. besides calling a pro, what can I do?

Well, if oldsmoboat wasn't such a grumpy ass, maybe he could share a bit more of his obvious wisdom on the subject.

Depending on the equipment and the code, 2 wires is not sufficient for 240v. Personally, I'd run 10/3.

 

[BigJ]

Guys, the OP is completely incorrect.

http://content.lincolnelectric...ts/literature/e230.pdf

The input current is 50A.

 

[Rubycon]

It's wired with a NEMA 6-50P plug so technically L1/L2 and ground is all you need. Problem is this is a 50A circuit so you need to install a 50A double pole CB in your box not a 30A. You will need to run 6/3 to your outlet. This is like installing service for an electric range.

 

[olds]

Originally posted by: BigJ
Guys, the OP is completely incorrect.

http://content.lincolnelectric...ts/literature/e230.pdf

The input current is 50A.

:shocked:
Didn't look at the link.

 

[BigJ]

Originally posted by: oldsmoboat

Originally posted by: BigJ
Guys, the OP is completely incorrect.

http://content.lincolnelectric...ts/literature/e230.pdf

The input current is 50A.

:shocked:
Didn't look at the link.

Me neither. I looked at it just to see if it used a neutral to recommend /3 or /2 and lo and behold it's a 50A welder.

 

[BigJ]

Also OP, you really should be hiring a professional for this. The NEC specifically deals with wiring for electric arc welders and there are some very specific code requirements you need to follow. More specifically, Article 630.

On top of that, you should be checking with your state and town for local exceptions and amendments to the NEC.

Call a pro and be thankful you didn't burn your house down.

 

[Squisher]

Originally posted by: Rubycon
It's wired with a NEMA 6-50P plug so technically L1/L2 and ground is all you need. Problem is this is a 50A circuit so you need to install a 50A double pole CB in your box not a 30A. You will need to run 6/3 to your outlet. This is like installing service for an electric range.

75' @ 6/3 = $$$

 

[olds]

Originally posted by: Squisher

Originally posted by: Rubycon
It's wired with a NEMA 6-50P plug so technically L1/L2 and ground is all you need. Problem is this is a 50A circuit so you need to install a 50A double pole CB in your box not a 30A. You will need to run 6/3 to your outlet. This is like installing service for an electric range.

75' @ 6/3 = $$$

Do you have a wireless option?
:laugh:

 

[newb111]

Originally posted by: oldsmoboat

Originally posted by: Squisher

Originally posted by: Rubycon
It's wired with a NEMA 6-50P plug so technically L1/L2 and ground is all you need. Problem is this is a 50A circuit so you need to install a 50A double pole CB in your box not a 30A. You will need to run 6/3 to your outlet. This is like installing service for an electric range.

75' @ 6/3 = $$$

Do you have a wireless option?
:laugh:

I have an option that involves a metal rake and water, but I don't think you'll like it.

 

[herm0016]

if you thing 2 conductor will run something like that, then you should hire it out. that is a large amount of current.

 

[BigJ]

Originally posted by: herm0016
if you thing 2 conductor will run something like that, then you should hire it out. that is a large amount of current.

Actually, it will. It does not need a neutral so it's 2 conductors + ground.

The reason he should hire out is that he thought it was only a 25A arc welder, and to add onto that there are specific requirements for running circuits for electric welders.

 

[Paperdoc]

Originally posted by: herm0016
if you thing 2 conductor will run something like that, then you should hire it out. that is a large amount of current.

The NUMBER of conductors is not important - it's the GAUGE (size) of the conductors! Since this device does not use a neutral line, you don't need one, at least at first glance.

BUT if it requires a specific type of outlet to plug into, the outlet itself may impose a need to supply a neutral line even if your specific device does not use it.

Best advice in this thread is from BigJ. He / she points out there are particular code requirements you do not know about; moreover, you clearly do not understand how to find the right info for your relatively simple initial question. And you haven't even thought about which type of cable you need, which depends on weather exposure, temperature extremes, physical exposure or protection of the cable, etc. Ask a pro!

 

[BigJ]

Originally posted by: Paperdoc

Originally posted by: herm0016
if you thing 2 conductor will run something like that, then you should hire it out. that is a large amount of current.

The NUMBER of conductors is not important - it's the GAUGE (size) of the conductors! Since this device does not use a neutral line, you don't need one, at least at first glance.

BUT if it requires a specific type of outlet to plug into, the outlet itself may impose a need to supply a neutral line even if your specific device does not use it.

Best advice in this thread is from BigJ. He / she points out there are particular code requirements you do not know about; moreover, you clearly do not understand how to find the right info for your relatively simple initial question. And you haven't even thought about which type of cable you need, which depends on weather exposure, temperature extremes, physical exposure or protection of the cable, etc. Ask a pro!

:thumbsup:

 

[dartworth]

The AC-225 is a good starter machine, however I would spend a little bit more money and get the K1297 from Lincoln. It has both AC and DC.

Then again you could get a quality machine and get a Miller

 

[Rubycon]

Or as much as a competent electrician will charge - get a gas powered one. Then if the power in your house goes out from a storm you can run your lights, fridge, etc. Just don't hook (the generator) up to a circuit breaker!

 

[grohl]

You know, I am thankful for the advice I get on this forum and other forums on Anandtech. Really, I am.

I'm also not stupid. But I am stubborn.

If I made an initial mistake in my original post about what I thought the requirements were, obviously I was wrong. If I need to higher a pro, I will. But please, point me in the right direction. Your strong urging to get a pro to help smacks of elitism, just a bit.

Point me in the right direction! What are the codes you speak of? Is there a formula for amps/linear feet/gauge of wiring? I doubt I am the only amateur to wire his house for 220v. And no, you will not be liable.

 

[Greenman]

http://www.powerstream.com/Wire_Size.htm

It's not all that tough to do, despite the size, it's still just romex and a two pole breaker. I'd go a size larger than required because of the length of the run. Don't get cheap and use aluminum wire, copper will cost more but it's worth the cost.

 

[BigJ]

Originally posted by: grohl
You know, I am thankful for the advice I get on this forum and other forums on Anandtech. Really, I am.

I'm also not stupid. But I am stubborn.

If I made an initial mistake in my original post about what I thought the requirements were, obviously I was wrong. If I need to higher a pro, I will. But please, point me in the right direction. Your strong urging to get a pro to help smacks of elitism, just a bit.

Point me in the right direction! What are the codes you speak of? Is there a formula for amps/linear feet/gauge of wiring? I doubt I am the only amateur to wire his house for 220v. And no, you will not be liable.

Fine.

The first thing you have to do is figure out what version of the NEC your state uses. Then you have to figure out what special guidelines, restrictions, exemptions, etc. your state, county, town, etc have made regarding the NEC.

Next, pick up a copy of the version of the NEC that is used, and get copies of the revisions made to electrical and building codes.

Next, get a basic wiring and electrical book. At the very least, read up on the sections regarding conductor sizing, wire types and usage, conduit, garage requirements, circuit breakers, and other basics.

Then, figure out what you are actually doing. There are specific locations where different type of cable can be used (for example, Armored Cable, NM-B, THHN) based on what you are doing. It's exposure, any damage it may incur, bends (specifically if you use conduit), etc. are all things that have to be very carefully considered. Figure out what type of panel you have, what circuit breakers you can use, if you need a service upgrade to be able to utilize the arc welder, and other considerations you may need to take into account. The basic wiring and electrical book will list further things you have to take into consideration.

Before you do ANYTHING, check to make sure you are actually authorized to perform the electrical work and if you need a permit or not. For your home owners insurance, this is extremely important, and you will absolutely want your work inspected by a AHJ.

Evaluate what you are actually going to do. Make a list of materials you are going to use, measure everything out; plan instead of diving in head first.

In the NEC, specifically Article 630, you will see a section regarding circuit wiring for electric welders. You will pay specific mind to the section on Arc welders. Pay careful attention to conductor sizing and disconnect requirements.

That's the bare minimum to get you started.

On a side not, getting a pro absolutely does not smack of elitism, ESPECIALLY when you're dealing with electrical. Electrical work, especially pertaining to this area, can easily hurt or kill you and your family and/or destroy your property. Gas/oil and electrical are two things that you don't mess with.