Add This To The Discussion Of Gay Men Donating Blood

Adam8281

Platinum Member
May 28, 2003
2,181
0
76
http://volokh.com/2010/03/16/relative-risks-of-hiv-infection-among-gay-and-bisexual-males/

I just saw this article and thought it provides an interesting contribution to the discussion we've sometimes had on ATOT about gay men donating blood.

********************************************

The issue came up on this blog some years ago, and remains relevant to the debate about limits on gay males’ donating blood and other fluids and tissues. I therefore I thought I’d note the data from the latest CDC report (apparently just released last week, though it was based on 2006 data):

[T]he rate of new HIV diagnoses among MSM [men having sex with men] in the U.S. is more than 44 times that of other men (range: 522–989 per 100,000 MSM vs. 12 per 100,000 other men).

(Note that “more than 44″ appears to mean “44 to 82,” given the 522–989 range.)

It may well be that, despite that, gay men should be disqualified from donating blood only if they report they have had sex with a man in the last 12 months, as opposed to the current American system, which disqualifies any man who reports he has had sex with a man since 1977 — especially since it seems that modern testing has narrowed the window during which HIV is undetectable in blood to just 11 days. I take it the reservations about relying on self-reporting and testing are that (1) there is always risk of human error in the testing process; (2) (possibly) some number of people will (innocently) misreport whether they had sex with a man in the last 12 months, even when they would have accurately reported that they had sex with a man since 1977; (3) because the policy disqualifies only a small fraction of all possible donors (just those men who have had sex with a man since 1977 but not in the last 12 months), there is little health benefit to broadening the eligibility, and the small health benefit from getting more uninfected blood exceeds the small health risk from the possibility of getting infected blood; and (4) the focus should be solely on the aggregate health risk and not on the feelings of the donors or the message supposedly sent by the exclusion. I don’t know what the right answer is, because I haven’t studied the likely risks (though I’m pretty sure that, as to item 4, the focus should indeed be solely on the health risk).

But it does seem to me significant to also understand just how much more risky a particular group of prospective donors might be. And since my earlier posts on this topic yielded responses from people who didn’t think the relative risk was quite so high, I thought I’d post the most recent data. Finally, just to make things crystal clear, let me stress that I wish the HIV rate for all groups, gay and otherwise, were zero; that I think the view that HIV is somehow a justified punishment for supposedly immoral behavior would be laughable if it weren’t so horrible; and that I would think this even if I thought male-male sex were indeed immoral (which I don’t).
 

Cogman

Lifer
Sep 19, 2000
10,284
138
106
Step 1. Take their blood.
Step 2. Test their blood for diseases .
Step 3. Throw away diseased blood.
Step 4. Repeat.
 

Tristicus

Diamond Member
Feb 2, 2008
8,107
5
61
www.wallpapereuphoria.com
Step 1. Take their blood.
Step 2. Test their blood for diseases .
Step 3. Throw away diseased blood.
Step 4. Repeat.

Do they test all blood? It would be obvious to me that they do, however...if they didn't for some reason, then it would be unnecessary and they might as well keep it the same way.
 

JSt0rm

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
27,399
3,948
126
Do they test all blood? It would be obvious to me that they do, however...if they didn't for some reason, then it would be unnecessary and they might as well keep it the same way.

of course they test it all. Well if tort reform goes through then maybe it would be more cost effective to not test it all and just take on the puny lawsuits as they come in. If you don't want hiv you should choose to not have a blood transfusion its simple.
 

Adam8281

Platinum Member
May 28, 2003
2,181
0
76
Do they test all blood? It would be obvious to me that they do, however...if they didn't for some reason, then it would be unnecessary and they might as well keep it the same way.

They do test all blood. However, as the article says, there is a latency "window" where HIV is undetectable. This window varies depending on the method of testing. The most advanced method of testing has shrunk this window to 11 days. This is PCR testing, and its availability is currently very limited, and it is expensive. The most common method of testing (an antibody test) cannot detect HIV during the first 6 weeks to 6 months after the person has been infected.
 

Cogman

Lifer
Sep 19, 2000
10,284
138
106
of course they test it all. Well if tort reform goes through then maybe it would be more cost effective to not test it all and just take on the puny lawsuits as they come in. If you don't want hiv you should choose to not have a blood transfusion its simple.

Umm, yeah, right. That one was a bit of a stretch don't ya think?

Hospitals would still have to stay in business, could you imagine being known as "The hospital that gives people aids."?
 

SirStev0

Lifer
Nov 13, 2003
10,449
6
81
A Blog? Now that is some legit source!

They do test all the blood they take. No matter what.

It is silly to not take blood of people for certain reasons. Firstly, everyone lies. Period. Secondly. They do excellent screening.
 

Adam8281

Platinum Member
May 28, 2003
2,181
0
76
A Blog? Now that is some legit source!

They do test all the blood they take. No matter what.

It is silly to not take blood of people for certain reasons. Firstly, everyone lies. Period. Secondly. They do excellent screening.

Um, it's a blog whose contributors are exclusively law professors, many among the most prominent in the field. Just because a site bears the label "blog" doesn't mean that it's not credible.
 

Danube

Banned
Dec 10, 2009
613
0
0
Gay men are also 65% of new syphilis cases (in SanFran it's 90%) and they carry more Hepatitis, MRSA (there are epidemics in gay populations in the big cities. Doctors started talking about it but then they got shut down by the usual suspects). I remember when all the hemophiliacs died from manky blood. I wouldn't rely on screening and I am also sure people lie about where they been.
 

Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
15,613
11,255
136
I think if you allow gays, you have to allow hookers and IV drug users as well.
 
Last edited:

Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
15,613
11,255
136
It is silly to not take blood of people for certain reasons. Firstly, everyone lies. Period. Secondly. They do excellent screening.

It would be really sad if people with the intent of helping people would lie and put those same people at higher risk. I don't know why someone would lie on the prescreen unless they were intentionally trying to hurt someone.
 

Tristicus

Diamond Member
Feb 2, 2008
8,107
5
61
www.wallpapereuphoria.com
Umm, yeah, right. That one was a bit of a stretch don't ya think?

Hospitals would still have to stay in business, could you imagine being known as "The hospital that gives people aids."?

SarcasmMeter2.gif


They do test all blood. However, as the article says, there is a latency "window" where HIV is undetectable. This window varies depending on the method of testing. The most advanced method of testing has shrunk this window to 11 days. This is PCR testing, and its availability is currently very limited, and it is expensive. The most common method of testing (an antibody test) cannot detect HIV during the first 6 weeks to 6 months after the person has been infected.

But then what if another sample of blood that gets through has HIV? It goes to the hospital anyways? If there is that long of a period however, I agree, with the number infected it probably isn't worth it.
 

Tristicus

Diamond Member
Feb 2, 2008
8,107
5
61
www.wallpapereuphoria.com
pssst. I don't know if you realize it or not, but your text doesn't convey sarcasm. The opinion you put forth isn't extreme enough to be considered for sarcasm.

Considering it wasn't my post and I could read it as sarcasm, get your meter checked.
And if he is serious, then he should get his brain checked.
 
Last edited:

SirStev0

Lifer
Nov 13, 2003
10,449
6
81
It would be really sad if people with the intent of helping people would lie and put those same people at higher risk. I don't know why someone would lie on the prescreen unless they were intentionally trying to hurt someone.
Have you ever had anal sex with a woman? Remember tell the truth.
 

Cogman

Lifer
Sep 19, 2000
10,284
138
106
Considering it wasn't my post and I could read it as sarcasm, get your meter checked.
And if he is serious, then he should get his brain checked.

woops, sorry about that, your avatars are the same hue. Either way, It isn't so off the wall to be considered non-sarcastic imo.
 

Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
15,613
11,255
136
Have you ever had anal sex with a woman? Remember tell the truth.

Yes, but that is not a question on the prescreen, if it were I would answer yes. I have had to answer yes before for having shots within the last 6 weeks and the traveling outside the US questions.

The questions are there so they aren't so reliant on the tests to begin with. They are smart by not having their last line of defense being the only line of defense.

If the data should there was no increase risk, I would have no problem with "Have you had sex with more than 1 male in the last X years?"
 

SirStev0

Lifer
Nov 13, 2003
10,449
6
81
Yes, but that is not a question on the prescreen, if it were I would answer yes. I have had to answer yes before for having shots within the last 6 weeks and the traveling outside the US questions.

The questions are there so they aren't so reliant on the tests to begin with. They are smart by not having their last line of defense being the only line of defense.

If the data should there was no increase risk, I would have no problem with "Have you had sex with more than 1 male in the last X years?"

Then you are at an increased risk for HIV and therefore, by your logic, you shouldn't give blood.
 

Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
15,613
11,255
136
Then you are at an increased risk for HIV and therefore, by your logic, you shouldn't give blood.

So you really are just throwing out Red Herrings.

My argument is why would someone lie on the prescreen. I am not lying on the prescreen because the Red Cross does not believe my anal sex with my wife puts me into a higher risk category and therefore does not ask the question.

BTW: The questioner actually ask "Have you ever had sexual contact with another male since 1977, even once?" So by your logic, anyone who has had sexual contact (i.e. oral sex, etc) with anyone shouldn't be allowed to give blood.
 
Last edited:

jhu

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
11,918
9
81
I don't see what the problem is. You know what we do with blood products from women who have been pregnant? We throw away the plasma and platelets because there is the potential to cause transfusion related lung injury in the recipient. Where's the uproar among women's groups about this?

The thing is, until we have viable synthetic blood products, we have to use what people give us and that means rejecting blood products from certain groups of people for the safety of the recipients.