Active PFC for PSU? Yes or no?

patsfan33

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Oct 18, 2004
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Elcs

Diamond Member
Apr 27, 2002
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Originally posted by: amdguy
don't get thermaltake PSU, they are CRAP VERY CRAP!!!

get enermax or antec !!!!

Ignore this person.

Thermaltake in general are crap. Their PSU's are not. Quality units. Like all manufactured items, they can fail just like any Enermax or Antec.

Ask either one of my 2 TT PSU's. They have no problems handling mine or my dads machine.
 

Fern

Elite Member
Sep 30, 2003
26,907
174
106
Originally posted by: patsfan33
Looking at these two PSU`s from Thermaltake one(the more expensive} has an active PFC, the other does not. Can someone enliighten me on what an active PFC is, and is it worth the xtra cash? Thanks.
Active PFC link http://www.newegg.com/app/View...=17-153-005&depa=1
Not active link http://www.newegg.com/app/View...=17-153-006&depa=1

I was constantly told that active is not neccessary etc if you in the US. If in Europe or elsewhere, then get it.
 

JBT

Lifer
Nov 28, 2001
12,094
1
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Thermaltake PSU's are made by Enlight, which are pretty good. You can ussually find Enlight PSU's for cheaper too.
 

Lyfer

Diamond Member
May 28, 2003
5,842
2
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Originally posted by: Elcs
Originally posted by: amdguy
don't get thermaltake PSU, they are CRAP VERY CRAP!!!

get enermax or antec !!!!

Ignore this person.

Thermaltake in general are crap. Their PSU's are not. Quality units. Like all manufactured items, they can fail just like any Enermax or Antec.

Ask either one of my 2 TT PSU's. They have no problems handling mine or my dads machine.

Indeed.

I got a steal on my TT purepower 480W for only $50. It runs my overclocked Athlon 64 3000@2.2ghz completely stable. I was considering getting a Fortron FSP400 but in anand's PSU round up the TT480 provides better voltages at a cheaper price (the Fortron 400w is ~$65). What really impressed me about this PSU is the high quality construction, adjustable fan knob, and sleeved/long cables.

You can't find that with any other PSU priced as low as the TT Purepower 480.


 

Mark R

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
8,513
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Active PFC PSUs can be more efficient than PSUs with no PFC or passive PFC. This is not automatically the case, as some PSUs are just conventional models with the active PFC bolted on. However, it is possible to completely redesign the PSU with active PFC in mind, and this can bring big energy savings (cost savings of up to $5/month as well as lower heat production).

If you are looking for a PSU and want a high end-one, I'd recommend chosing a model of PSU which is only available with active PFC, especially if this PC will be a high-end model, or used 24/7 (as this would provide the best energy savings).

If active PFC is an option for a particular PSU model, then it is likely it is an after-thought and the benefits are likely to be marginal at best - indeed, it's possible that they actually use more power and cost more to run.
 

mindless1

Diamond Member
Aug 11, 2001
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Thermaltake are a great value, though their fans are only median-quality and may need replaced after a couple years.

The key to Active PFC is how you're billed for power. US residents and smaller businesses aren't billed by peak utilization so Active PFC is of no benefit. All Active PFC really does is "average" the current drawn from the electric companies power grid. It actually uses more power than passive PFC, but not much. It is not worth the extra cost for the typical US PC consumer.
 

lrmat

Member
Aug 17, 2004
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my thermaltake purepower butterfly bit the dust last week, exactly a month after building my rig. i would give the benefit of a doubt to the manufacturer but here is something that needs to be added to the mix as well..... how good is the psu manufacturer's support? i e-mailed thermaltake friday (october 15 about my situation, and here it is tuesday and no reply ( i sent an e-mail yesterday as well). no where on thermaltake's website is there a number to call. i may be forced to buy another psu because i can only be so long without my rig. mind you i don't even know how extensive the damage is. i am hoping that only the psu burned out but for all i know......
 
Oct 18, 2004
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Active pfc is great, I am running a 600 watt Enermax with active pfc, love it because of the spikes and browns in my area eat my cheap power supplies up. Thermaltake makes great power supllies, not as good as Power for PC, Antec or Enermax, but they are still good.
 

toshvan

Junior Member
Nov 7, 2004
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I'm still not clear here. Is active PFC only about power saving or it's also about power protection? Also what is the difference with passive PFC, protection-wise...?
 

pennylane

Diamond Member
Apr 28, 2002
6,077
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I LOVE my Seasonic Super Silencer 460 Watt. It has active PFC plus lots of other useful bells and whistles. It's also very close to silent, with a nice automatic fan control.
 

lrmat

Member
Aug 17, 2004
157
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i don't want to hijack this thread but i need to update you guys. i had the the tt butterfly that crapped out a month to the day i built my rig. mindless 1 was nice enought o direct me in the right direction to get an rma. it's been threee weeks and thermaltake has notified me that my replacement psu is on it's way. i couldn't wait for the psu last week a bought the ultra x-connect 500w modular psu and installed that in my rig. it rocks (so far) it compliments my case asthetically much better then the tt and my temps dropped 1degree cause of the uv sleeved cables.

i decided to keep the butterfly as a spare just in case (hopefully this is an unlikely scenario but experience has taught me redundancy works more in my favor.
 

Gamingphreek

Lifer
Mar 31, 2003
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Thermaltake PSU's aren't THAT bad... they are about average to a little below. I would go with it in this order:

1. OCZ Powerstream
2. Enermax
3. Antec
4. Seasonic; Zalman (etc...)
All of those are significantly better than the Thermaltake. Oh yeah dont get an Ultra PSU they are much worse than the TT(no offense, but look at the reviews)

-Kevin
 

mindless1

Diamond Member
Aug 11, 2001
8,625
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Originally posted by: toshvan
I'm still not clear here. Is active PFC only about power saving or it's also about power protection? Also what is the difference with passive PFC, protection-wise...?
Active PFC's purpose is to cause a more uniform, "average" current draw from the power company's grid. A side-effect is that it slightly filters the power more on it's way in, but that does not equate to significantly cleaner output to the system unless your AC was horrendous (and should have whole house filtering instead). Active PFC uses more power than "same" passive PFC unit, many people mistakenly assume the opposite.

Passive PFC does also provide slight filtering and current averaging, but not nearly as much. For the most part a PSU can tolerage fairly wide voltage variations though unless it's real junk, and all should have basic noise filtering moreso to prevent the PSU's noise from leaking out the AC line, rather than blocking incoming noise, but it does work both ways to a degree.

Active PFC can be a useful feature, but mostly if the PSU has sufficient construction budget such that the rest of it is good already... you don't want the budget going towards it if the unit doesn't have ample capacitance, inductance, good fan, etc, as those are all far more important to the operation of the power supply, areas that are cut in junk units and often end up causing failure, perhaps of more than just the PSU.
 

mindless1

Diamond Member
Aug 11, 2001
8,625
1,687
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Originally posted by: Gamingphreek
Thermaltake PSU's aren't THAT bad... they are about average to a little below. I would go with it in this order:

1. OCZ Powerstream
2. Enermax
3. Antec
4. Seasonic; Zalman (etc...)
All of those are significantly better than the Thermaltake. Oh yeah dont get an Ultra PSU they are much worse than the TT(no offense, but look at the reviews)

-Kevin

I'd have to S T R O N G L Y disagree with that ordering.
All you really did is list them in order of eye-candy. The OCZ and Enermax aren't even capable of sustaining their labeled wattage. Some call that "fraud", others are more forgiving and call it a "peak rating". Did you know that on PC Power & Cooling's website, when they compare their psu to the "inferior" one, that inferior one is an Enermax?
 

RussianSensation

Elite Member
Sep 5, 2003
19,458
765
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Originally posted by: mindless1
Originally posted by: Gamingphreek
Thermaltake PSU's aren't THAT bad... they are about average to a little below. I would go with it in this order:

1. OCZ Powerstream
2. Enermax
3. Antec
4. Seasonic; Zalman (etc...)
All of those are significantly better than the Thermaltake. Oh yeah dont get an Ultra PSU they are much worse than the TT(no offense, but look at the reviews)

-Kevin

I'd have to S T R O N G L Y disagree with that ordering.
All you really did is list them in order of eye-candy. The OCZ and Enermax aren't even capable of sustaining their labeled wattage. Some call that "fraud", others are more forgiving and call it a "peak rating". Did you know that on PC Power & Cooling's website, when they compare their psu to the "inferior" one, that inferior one is an Enermax?

The world records for 3dmark03 and 05 were set on systems using OCZ 520 watt power supplies. And 6+ghz p4 and 3.6ghz FX overclocks were set on OCZ power supplies not long ago either. And countless websites gave them editor choice awards. Sure PC Power and Cooling is the best there is. But it costs $200+ a piece. His ranking is justified if he just added the words, "reasonably priced," next to it.

I would agree that PC P&C is the best quality overall, but OCZ, Enermax Forton and Antec will give you all the juice you need to set records and have an amazing system without having to spend the cost of a cpu or a videcard on a PSU.
 

mindless1

Diamond Member
Aug 11, 2001
8,625
1,687
126
Originally posted by: RussianSensation


I'd have to S T R O N G L Y disagree with that ordering.
All you really did is list them in order of eye-candy. The OCZ and Enermax aren't even capable of sustaining their labeled wattage. Some call that "fraud", others are more forgiving and call it a "peak rating". Did you know that on PC Power & Cooling's website, when they compare their psu to the "inferior" one, that inferior one is an Enermax?

The world records for 3dmark03 and 05 were set on systems using OCZ 520 watt power supplies. And 6+ghz p4 and 3.6ghz FX overclocks were set on OCZ power supplies not long ago either. And countless websites gave them editor choice awards. Sure PC Power and Cooling is the best there is. But it costs $200+ a piece. His ranking is justified if he just added the words, "reasonably priced," next to it.

I would agree that PC P&C is the best quality overall, but OCZ, Enermax Forton and Antec will give you all the juice you need to set records and have an amazing system without having to spend the cost of a cpu or a videcard on a PSU.[/quote]
This is exactly the kind of illogical thinking that causes false impressions.
OCZ has won editors awards because the editors thought they looked good. Frankly I'm sick of arguing about it, over and over clueless people review them and don't bother to do accurate testing of full load capacity. When a PSU labeled as 500W can't sustain that, it's fraud. No CPU or video card overclock requires remotely near 500W, and yet THEY chose to label them as 500W, which is not some kind of "guideline", it is a precise scientific measurement of power that is not variable based on personal interpretations or marketing gimmicks. Nor is it basked on chrome, cable sheaths, LEDS or clear fans, etc, etc, etc.

Winning a 3Dmark contest has nothing to do with which PSU is better. All that's necessary there is for the PSU to output ENOUGH, with ripple in moderation only enough that the system it's powering, survived until that point, nothing more. The sad part is that such systems driven by marginal PSU, will probably fail. Where do reviewers test PSU output for more than a few hours, days at most? Even the nastiest piece of trash PSU will run for a few days before failing, probably even months. I'm not arguing that the OCZ Ultra is utter trash, but it IS only $30 worth of PSU, very well-dressed. You might be able to find some Ultra 500W for $30 still, though no chrome or modular connectors.

If you want to nitpick, somewhere here I have an nVidia FX5900, which has been proven by online tests to consume the most power of any video card (well, excluding FX5950). Mine is volt-modded, it uses significantly MORE power than the average FX5900... it may be the most power hungry card ever to exist (along with anyone else who has a volt-modded FX5900). What PSU is in the system it's running in? A mere Thermaltake 420W. I have better PSU here sitting new in boxes but I didn't change the PSU. Why? Because it didn't need to be changed, all that's needed is a PSU capable of the load, and typical safety, filtering, etc.

So let's suppose someone thinks the Ultra is really good. Do they know that Ultra doesn't make, just relabels it? Do they know the same PSU minus the chrome and modular connectors/other frills sells for less, sometimes MUCH less? Can they name at least two of the other relabeled names (there are more than two)? Would their impresssion of it be changed after they saw how much markup there is after a dozen dollars worth of cosmetic deviations?