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Acording to TomsHardware: Dell 2405 is not good for games and video!

Maybe tom cant afford one?

Runs my games fine and videos never looked better.

I am using a 7800gtx as well so i get good fps.
 
Not quite sure what they're problem is (granted I didn't read the article either), but games and video looked awesome on that monitor.

I played my consoles, PC games, and watched DVDs and I thought everything looked great.
 
The article is a bit funny. The Dell 2405FPW did great on the color calibration test, and the latency looked good as well. In fact the latency was a lot better than the ore expensive NEC monitors. However they complained it was too bright. I believe there is a brightness setting to fix that 😕

They also don't explain the video "noise" they are talking about - it is just mentioned at the very end. No explanation whatsoever.
 
That was ~20 ms reponse across the board. So far the "best" LCD monitor Toms has tested was the V191b 19" model with overdrive that was pushing a 12-16ms response time. Considering that the Dell Monitor is roughly 1.5 times larger in area (~261 in^2 to 173 in ^2) and has 1.75 times the number of pixels, I would have thought Toms would be raving about the incredible response times. In additional, they got the price drastically wrong ($1200 to ~$900-1000 delivered), failed to mention the additional inputs of S-Video, Composite, and Componet as well as the additional features not present in the other monitors such as PBP and etc...

Given all of that, I would say they spent around 0 time with the monitor outside of testing and didn't put the time needed into to optimizing the monitors settings...or maybe some of the additional screens they talked about testing were so superior in terms of performance that they far surpased the monitor?
 
According to dell.. 2405 is 12 ms, and I got the Gretag Macbeth calibration system at work.. that they allow me to take home... THIS THING IS AWESOME... makes everything look great...

The Dell? UltraSharp? 2405FPW 24-inch Flat Panel LCD Monitor is a wide aspect desktop display that redefines the performance of LCD displays with a stylish new design and advanced functionality. Watch DVDs in natural format and run multiple applications simultaneously. Improve productivity with less scrolling and toggling. The 2405FPW wide aspect LCD also provides 12 ms response time to enable crisp clear images when using the display for fast motion video such as gaming or video editing. With 4 USB 2.0 ports, 2 located on the side, the 2405FPW gives users convenient access points to plug in devices such as keyboards, digital cameras, secondary hard drives and printers. Integrated 9-in-1 flash card reader allows easy access to download photos or files. It also supports advanced features such as PIP (picture in picture) and PBP (picture by picture). With 3.93 inches (100 mm) of height adjustment virtually every user can adjust the display to their exact comfort level and help reduce eye and neck strain.
 
hmm this is interesting. This monitor has been great for me. I experience nothing like them watching DVD's as well. I'll admit I changed a few settings to make it more my preference but it has been great for EVERYTHING I want it to do.

I guess this is probably why I never go to Tom's.
 
Originally posted by: kmmatney
The article is a bit funny. The Dell 2405FPW did great on the color calibration test, and the latency looked good as well. In fact the latency was a lot better than the ore expensive NEC monitors. However they complained it was too bright. I believe there is a brightness setting to fix that 😕

I couldn't really parse what certainly isnt their most clearly written article, but maybe they meant shades of darkness? With very dark movies, with lots of things happening in fine nuances in almost black, LCDs are not very good and the 2405 might not be a top LCD for this.
 
The video noise thing they probably didn't bother to explain because they figured it would take too long. You'll see when I try to explain it below.

For the too high of a brightness, look at the delta tracking graph. The x-axis is the brightness setting of the monitor, while the y-axis is the deviation of the monitor's actual color from the requested color (the higher the number, the greater the deviation is). Note that it jumps all over the place until you make the brightness 70 or above (out of 100), which means that you're only getting good color fidelity at the higher brightnesses -- which is what Tom's Hardware meant. Supposedly, the "ideal" brightness is at about 110 nits, which for this monitor would be at x = 44 (on the graph) -- far above that and it gets too bright. On the other hand, I'm confused by what their "good color fidelity" means. A delta of 3 is supposed to mean "noticeably different to the average joe schmo" (bad), a delta of 2 is supposed to mean "hard to tell unless you do a lot of photo stuff" (good), a delta of 1 is supposed to mean "we can measure this only because our colorimeter is way better than the eye at noticing slight shade differences" (really excellent to just about perfect). For the 2405, it stayed at 1 or below from a brightness setting of about 8 on up, yet apparently a delta of 1 wasn't good enough for Tom's Hardware. On the other hand, note the target audience: professional photo guys. So they really have reason to be stingy about the colors. And considering how much they (presumably) paid for the monitor, they were probably expecting perfection, and were disappointed when it fell short of that. I would imagine that the rest of us don't care once the delta gets below like 2 or 1.5 (I probably wouldn't care once it got below 3, knowing me).

So generally, unless you're a photo pro, the colors are likely good enough; note that the delta stayed at one or below for all but the darkest brightness settings. And the response time is pretty good as well. Remember that a regular 60 Hz frame is 16.7 ms long, so the 23 max (around 20 ms average) is pretty good. You should go to the store and see it for yourself though, because yours truly accepts pretty much anything below 30 ms while gamers demand 8 ms or less.

As for video noise. As panel sizes get larger, the electrical characteristics of the panel itself (as opposed to signal quality, i.e. VGA vs DVI) become more and more of an issue. That is to say, the fact that the little wires have a non-zero resistance, a non-zero capacitance, draw voltage, etc., and thus interfere with each other's signals, become more and more of an issue. This has nothing to do with VGA or DVI connection, which only describes the interface between the computer and monitor -- this is about the architecture of the monitor itself. Thus, video noise. This is why Tom's Hardware uses a checkerboard pattern (the ANSI standard) to measure the contrast ratio, rather than the manufacturer's way of the brightness of an all-white screen divided by that of an all-black screen.

That's the short explanation. The long explanation is this. The panel consists of scan lines (horizontal) and data lines (vertical). So a regular 17" monitor (1280 x 1024) has 1024 scan lines and 3840 ( = 1280 * 3 since each sub-pixel has its own) data lines. Most of the time, the scan line is off (open). When it comes time to render that particular line's colors, though, the line connects, then all 3840 data lines tell their respective sub-pixels what shade to be. Then the line closes again, so that the next line's pixels can be rendered.

Now consider your regular 60 Hz signal. All that data has to be sent then, during each frame. There is also another about 30% of the time that the hardware needs, so the actual data is actually sent only during 70% of that time. So this means that for a 17", the "open" time per scan line is:

1/60/1024*.7 = 1.14 * 10^-5 s

That's right, each line has only about 0.01 ms to transmit the data. By the way, this is why sub-pixels are arrange in rows (i.e. RGB left to right) rather than in columns (RGB top to bottom). The 3840 data lines (vertical) send their info simultaneously, while the scan lines (horizontal) have to wait their turn in line, and when it's their turn they don't got much time to be open. The problem is even more acute for 1200 vertical resolution monitors -- they have even less time to send the current on to the sub-pixels.

Now another problem comes up with increasing the resolution of the panel. Each sub-pixel draws a bit of current, and that means less for the next sub-pixel down the line. So basically the "open" signal gets a bit weaker and weaker every sub-pixel it encounters. Also, increasing the resolution means increasing the size, and the longer each horizontal (and vertical) line is, the more resistance there is in the wire. That sucker has 1920*3 = 5760 sub-pixels per scan line, folks. A thinner wire (to increase the brightness and reduce the "screen door" effect) makes this problem bigger. When you got tolerances as small as this, mistakes happen. Sub-pixels have capacitors, and they may fire when they shouldn't, based on seeing a really degraded signal. Or they may not fire when they should because the signal's too weak. Either way, this ends up creating video noise when you watch lots of rapidly-changing images, where the signals are rapidly changing.

Or maybe the Dell 2405 is just so good that the inherently video quality of the movies chosen by Tom's Hardware is finally noticeable.
 
According to Tom, the Pentium D is better than the X2. The only reason I go to Toms now is to see if any of the manufacturers that pay him so well have any good sales going that are advertised on his site.
 
Originally posted by: Jeff7181
According to Tom, the Pentium D is better than the X2. The only reason I go to Toms now is to see if any of the manufacturers that pay him so well have any good sales going that are advertised on his site.

QFT
 
Originally posted by: Jeff7181
According to Tom, the Pentium D is better than the X2. The only reason I go to Toms now is to see if any of the manufacturers that pay him so well have any good sales going that are advertised on his site.


QFT
 
Originally posted by: Crescent13
Originally posted by: Jeff7181
According to Tom, the Pentium D is better than the X2. The only reason I go to Toms now is to see if any of the manufacturers that pay him so well have any good sales going that are advertised on his site.


QFT

You all took the words right out of my mouth Toms is a bunch of bought out reviewers....to the OP search the other tech sites for reviews of Dell 2405, generally they rave about it.....I wish I had the money for one myself!
 
I don't know why AT hasn't done a 2405FPW review, their HP review suggests the HP L2335 is on par if not better than the 2005FPW, especially if you want the higher resolution, however he doesn't compare it to the 2405FPW. While the specs might be exagerated or off, the 1000:1 contrast ratio of the 2405 makes the 2005 or L2335 (500:1) look bad, as well as the 2405's 500 cd/m2 brightness vs. the 250 cd/m2 of the L2335. The only thing that might be an advantage with the L2335 would be the response time.

Given any true pros and cons of either panel it would be nice to know which one is clearly best or if the differences are even enough to be concerned if you're going to be forking over $800-1000...
 
Add me to the list of 2405 owners who absolutely LOVE this display. Granted, it almost blinded me when I first set it up (the default setting was crazy high), but once I brought it down this thing just owns.

I haven't read Tom's article either, but I can't imagine how they could've come to the conclusion that it's no good for gaming and movies. I use mine for both and it's great!
 
Hmm. Is Dell not a big advertiser on Tom's site? I haven't visited that site in years so I don't know.

Most tech review sites are bought. AnandTech is no different.
 
Originally posted by: BFG10K
20 ms is simply horrendous for gaming and movies.

Response time is one of those subjective things. I have no problems gaming on a 25ms display, video looks fine too.
 
I haven't used the Dell 2405 but have had the HP L2335 for over a year and love it. I think the thing the AT reviewer had was that he mentioned that the Dell 2005 and HP L2335 used a better lcd screen technology than the Dell 2405.
 
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