Accept or reject these beliefs?

[xBiffx]

Me not making this admission you say I should give appears to bother you, and bothering you inspires me.

Keep trollin, keep, keep trollin. :whiste:

 

[zsdersw]

There's something seriously wrong with someone who cannot ever admit error, who will lie and distort and deflect and distract and even resort to childish behavior of this sort rather than simply say "I was wrong".

I do admit error, but not to people I do not respect... and who are not respectful toward me.

If you're more than, say, 12 years old, you're a really disturbed individual. It's unfortunate that you're the only vocal gay person around here, because you give them a bad name.

Psychoanalysis is not your field of expertise, to be sure.

 

[zsdersw]

Keep trollin, keep, keep trollin. :whiste:

Keep whinin, keep, keep whinin. :whiste:

 

[Moonbeam]

In order to compare and contrast the two quotes given by the OP we can benefit, I think, from context. Jefferson's quote, if it is real, and I have seen questions about its validity, was made at a time when the colonies and overthrown foreign repression and declared Independence from it. The dangers of repressive government were the theme of the day.

Here is the Obama quote in context given at a university:

"Unfortunately, you've grown up hearing voices that incessantly warn of government as nothing more than some separate, sinister entity that's at the root of all our problems. Some of these same voices also do their best to gum up the works. They'll warn that tyranny always lurking just around the corner. You should reject these voices. Because what they suggest is that our brave, and creative, and unique experiment in self-rule is somehow just a sham with which we can't be trusted.

We have never been a people who place all our faith in government to solve our problems. We shouldn't want to. But we don't think the government is the source of all our problems, either. Because we understand that this democracy is ours. And as citizens, we understand that it's not about what America can do for us, it's about what can be done by us, together, through the hard and frustrating but absolutely necessary work of self-government. And class of 2013, you have to be involved in that process."

In short we have learned in 200+ years that balance is required when we deal with fear of government. The stoking of paranoia regarding government power, a good thing if government is repressive, is also a political tool that can be misused to fear trip a different group to hold the reigns of exactly that same government. In short, the intention is to pretend that because government can become oppressive, the paranoid must elect republicans to save them, a group who has become so irrational due to paranoia they are the danger they fear. We create our own demons and Obama is warning us about our new threat. As Jefferson may have said, 'When the people fear government there is tyranny" and even when that fear is an illusion. The fearful will bring us that tyranny themselves because we always create what we fear.

 

[xBiffx]

do admit error, but not to people I do not respect... and who are not respectful toward me.

So you admit to breaking rule #1 just because you don't like to admit an error. Three pages of troll and misinformation because you don't feel like admitting when you are wrong.

 

[Smoblikat]

What's funny is that those who clothe themselves in the Founding Fathers when waxing patriotic about guns can't run away from the Founding Fathers fast enough when the subject changes to Christianity and/or religion in general.

Whats even funnier is your notion that if someone makes one good point than all their points must be correct.

Alcoholics drink alcohol, and should moderate better.

Dinosaurs lived in the future, had rocket ships and lasers.

If you agree with my first statement, by your logic it is your duty to agree with the second, right?

 

[zsdersw]

So you admit to breaking rule #1 just because you don't like to admit an error. Three pages of troll and misinformation because you don't feel like admitting when you are wrong.

I respect neither you nor CK, and neither of you are respectful toward me, so no.. there has been no errors.

 

[xBiffx]

I respect neither you nor CK, and neither of you are respectful toward me, so no.. there has been no errors.

So now you just continue to lie. Gotcha.

Well, if anyone gave you credibility here up to this point, its surely gone now. WTG.

 

[zsdersw]

So now you just continue to lie. Gotcha.

Well, if anyone gave you credibility here up to this point, its surely gone now. WTG.

I've told no lies. I do admit errors to people I respect and who respect me. Since neither you nor CK are among those people, nothing will be admitted and nothing conceded.

 

[xBiffx]

I've told no lies. I do admit errors to people I respect and who respect me. Since neither you nor CK are among those people, nothing will be admitted and nothing conceded.

So you don't respect me or CK. Fine. Doesn't give you an excuse to troll.

BTW, I never disrespected you. I disagree with you, a lot, but I never disrespected you. What you see as disrespect is just a reflection of your own behavior. I replied every time with the same respect that I was shown. Remember, respect is something earned, not given.

Anyways, my previous post still stands. No one gives a shit what you say anymore. You did that to yourself.

 

[zsdersw]

So you don't respect me or CK. Fine. Doesn't give you an excuse to troll.

I'll say to you or to whomever else what I damn well please... and I don't give a shit if you like it or not.

BTW, I never disrespected you. I disagree with you, a lot, but I never disrespected you. What you see as disrespect is just a reflection of your own behavior. I replied every time with the same respect that I was shown. Remember, respect is something earned, not given.

Yes, respect is earned... and you've never earned mine. I never said you disrespected me.. perhaps there's no reflection of my behavior, but of yours. You didn't disrespect me, but you haven't earned my respect either.

Anyways, my previous post still stands. No one gives a shit what you say anymore. You did that to yourself.

Your previous post doesn't stand anywhere anyone cares about. I don't care if anyone cares about what I say... they're free to be idiots.

 

[Charles Kozierok]

I've told no lies. I do admit errors to people I respect and who respect me. Since neither you nor CK are among those people, nothing will be admitted and nothing conceded.

I doubt I could find a more open admission of immaturity here if I spent the whole day searching for it. This is, quite literally, the sort of reasoning used by toddlers. I am not exaggerating -- even when my kids were kindergarteners they knew better than to act this way when they were obviously in the wrong.

Facts are not dependent on who writes them. The founding fathers didn't magically become agnostics just because you are too insecure to admit that your statement was incorrect, and they also didn't become agnostics because you dislike me personally.

 

[zsdersw]

Posting in my threads when you don't care about what I have to say says more about you than it does about me.

 

[xBiffx]

Posting in my threads when you don't care about what I have to say says more about you than it does about me.

This isn't your thread.

Also, if you don't like people posting in threads that are yours perhaps its time to stop making threads. People are going to disagree with you at some point. That's just a simple fact in internet forums.

 

[zsdersw]

I doubt I could find a more open admission of immaturity here if I spent the whole day searching for it. This is, quite literally, the sort of reasoning used by toddlers. I am not exaggerating -- even when my kids were kindergarteners they knew better than to act this way when they were obviously in the wrong.

This may come as a shock to you, CK, but posting on a message board on the Internet is *different* than interacting with your children.

Pontificating on the character of the person behind the typing shows how little you know about--and how much misplaced importance you have in--the Internet in general and forums in particular.

Facts are not dependent on who writes them. The founding fathers didn't magically become agnostics just because you are too insecure to admit that your statement was incorrect, and they also didn't become agnostics because you dislike me personally.

I never claimed to like or dislike you personally. I don't know you personally. Chances are I never will.

 

[zsdersw]

This isn't your thread.

Yeah, but I think you've done a good job making it mine... and I'm happy to help you continue diverting it, because I find it amusing.

Also, if you don't like people posting in threads that are yours perhaps its time to stop making threads. People are going to disagree with you at some point. That's just a simple fact in internet forums.

I don't care if anyone posts anything anywhere. I do comment on the stupidity of posting in a thread the topic of which you don't care about, though.

 

[Charles Kozierok]

This may come as a shock to you, CK, but posting on a message board on the Internet is *different* than interacting with your children.

I used to think so too. I never imagined I would ever meet someone who claimed to be an adult but was willing to openly declare that he would refuse to admit he was wrong, even though he knew he was, solely because he either wanted to annoy others or because he couldn't deal with being wrong.

But I was mistaken. The Internet has allowed me to interact with people who have character flaws more bizarre than I ever thought possible.

It turns out that the main difference in dealing with you and in dealing with my children is that they outgrew acting like stubborn, self-aborbed toddlers, whereas you did not.

Pontificating on the character of the person behind the typing shows how little you know about--and how much misplaced importance you have in--the Internet in general and forums in particular.

On the contrary -- your character has been laid bare in this thread. You made a claim, and I responded several times factually. You deliberately ignored all of it, distorted everything that was said, refused to provide evidence, and then declared that you would refuse to concede anything. There are only two possible explanations for your behavior: that you are unable to admit error, or that you are deliberately refusing to do so just to annoy others. Either explanation clearly demonstrates your immaturity.

The saddest part is that you're the only openly gay poster here, because people might make bad general judgments about gays based on how you act.

 

[zsdersw]

I used to think so too. I never imagined I would ever meet someone who claimed to be an adult but was willing to openly declare that he would refuse to admit he was wrong, even though he knew he was, solely because he either wanted to annoy others or because he couldn't deal with being wrong.

But I was mistaken. The Internet has allowed me to interact with people who have character flaws more bizarre than I ever thought possible.

It turns out that the main difference in dealing with you and in dealing with my children is that they outgrew acting like stubborn, self-aborbed toddlers, whereas you did not.

On the contrary -- your character has been laid bare in this thread. You made a claim, and I responded several times factually. You deliberately ignored all of it, distorted everything that was said, refused to provide evidence, and then declared that you would refuse to concede anything. There are only two possible explanations for your behavior: that you are unable to admit error, or that you are deliberately refusing to do so just to annoy others. Either explanation clearly demonstrates your immaturity.

The saddest part is that you're the only openly gay poster here, because people might make bad general judgments about gays based on how you act.

The fault, dear CK, lies not in our stars but in ourselves.

The fault is in attributing too much to posts on an Internet forum... and making assumptions about character when none of us have met personally.

 

[BoberFett]

This thread went full retard pages ago...