AC97, is it ok, or does it suck?!

[merlocka]

People who say that AC'97 or a C-media onboard controller are acceptable just don't know sound! It will squash your dynamic range and make the lows seem mucky and highs tinny. Please read the article here for soundcard 101 if you don't know the basics. AC'97 is a joke.

Gosh, once again I guess I don't know sound... God forbid my lows get mucky or highs get tinny.

And BTW, the article you link to mentions the AC97 once, here :

If we were comparing the Live to AC?97 integrated audio, we would have been doing back flips over the superior quality of this card

So he is sayinig that they weren't comparing the two?

The rest of the article was decent if you care how the Audigy compares to the Mia, but there is no data on DC offset for the AC97 on this page.

 

[NFS4]

Originally posted by: 7757524
People who say that AC'97 or a C-media onboard controller are acceptable just don't know sound! It will squash your dynamic range and make the lows seem mucky and highs tinny. Please read the article here for soundcard 101 if you don't know the basics. AC'97 is a joke.

Isn't that the THIRD time you've posted that link in here?????????????????

Let people decide what they think is good sound. My MP3's and games sound fine with the onboard Realtek 6-channel audio on my 4G4A. If you've got a problem with it, I don't give a rat's ass

 

[holdencommodore]

"The rest of the article was decent if you care how the Audigy compares to the Mia, but there is no data on DC offset for the AC97 on this page."

You took the exact words from my mouth on that mate! I was just about to mention that. There is also no mention of what brand of codec they are using. There is also no mention of the C-media 9738 or 8738 chip.

edit: here, here NFS4.... completely agree with you mate!

 

[Lucky]

Isn't that the THIRD time you've posted that link in here?????????????????

He's posted it all over the place, I cant read a thread about soundcards without encountering it.

 

[bozo1]

Once again he links to one article and in this case, one not even discussing this issue and proclaims it to be gospel.

AC'97 is just a standard. It is implemented in different ways, some better than others. For most people, integrated audio is just fine, especially as it is basically free. For many people, the better implementations/chips/codecs are more than adequate even for gaming.

Yes there is better audio available to those that want or need it. But to make a blanket statement saying AC'97 is a joke is just untrue and once again shows your narrow-mindedness and often incorrect statements you blanket the forums with.

 

[NFS4]

Originally posted by: bozo1
Once again he links to one article and in this case, one not even discussing this issue and proclaims it to be gospel.

AC'97 is just a standard. It is implemented in different ways, some better than others. For most people, integrated audio is just fine, especially as it is basically free. For many people, the better implementations/chips/codecs are more than adequate even for gaming.

Yes there is better audio available to those that want or need it. But to make a blanket statement saying AC'97 is a joke is just untrue and once again shows your narrow-mindedness and often incorrect statements you blanket the forums with.

Exactly...now I will say that the onboard AC97 on my Shuttle AK31 was definitely subpar to my ears. I could DEFINITELY tell the difference in how poor it sounded. I believe that it used simply the VIA audio controller.

But my 4G4A with the Realtek audio sounds superb to me. It simply depends on which way it is implemented by every manufacturer. Not every AC97 solution out there is crap.

 

[Hardware]

I am sure your ?5 speaker sounds great with a SB Platinum!

 

[holdencommodore]

Yeah I've heard that Realtek codecs are pretty reasonable. Apparently the support some kind or reverb too??
I think the VIA codec that is included in the Shuttle AK31 is not as good, but may be fine if the person was looking for a standard "office" soundcard.

I would say there are a handful of codecs that are reasonable, the Realtek, C-media 9738 and the SoundMax codec

Cheers

 

[NFS4]

Originally posted by: holdencommodore
Yeah I've heard that Realtek codecs are pretty reasonable. Apparently the support some kind or reverb too??
I think the VIA codec that is included in the Shuttle AK31 is not as good, but may be fine if the person was looking for a standard "office" soundcard.

I would say there are a handful of codecs that are reasonable, the Realtek, C-media 9738 and the SoundMax codec

Cheers

Yup, the AK31's sound was fine for general office type stuff, but as soon as I would play a MP3 it was rather poor quality.

 

[RanDum72]

He's posted it all over the place, I cant read a thread about soundcards without encountering it.

Lucky, thats because HE WROTE IT!

 

[Lucky]

Originally posted by: RanDum72
He's posted it all over the place, I cant read a thread about soundcards without encountering it.

Lucky, that beacuse HE WROTE IT!

I know. :frown:

 

[NFS4]

Originally posted by: RanDum72
He's posted it all over the place, I cant read a thread about soundcards without encountering it.

Lucky, thats because HE WROTE IT!

I guess that means that he is the AUTHORITY on sound cards then

 

[paralazarguer]

Authority, no. It does mean that when I enter into a discussion on sound cards I like to simply link to my own explanation of what makes a soundcard good rather than typing it every time.

 

[merlocka]

It does mean that when I enter into a discussion on sound cards I like to simply link to my own explanation of what makes a soundcard good rather than typing it every time.

The point is, there is no explanation of why the AC97 standard is a joke, or why It will squash your dynamic range and make the lows seem mucky and highs tinny

You basically say that it sucks. And then in this thread you say that it sucks and provide a link to a page where you again say that it sucks. Then you repeat the process.

 

[Wingznut]

Originally posted by: 7757524
Authority, no. It does mean that when I enter into a discussion on sound cards I like to simply link to my own explanation of what makes a soundcard good rather than typing it every time.

Yeah, but THREE TIMES in one thread???

7757524, I don't think anyone is arguing that onboard sound is better than an Audigy. They are just saying that it's more than adequate for many people.

I use an Audigy w/BA-4800's on my primary system and onboard sound w/Z-340's on my secondary system. Sure my secondary system doesn't sound as good, but I'm just fine with it.

 

[paralazarguer]

The point is, there is no explanation of why the AC97 standard is a joke, or why It will squash your dynamic range and make the lows seem mucky and highs tinny

actually there is a good explanation in the link. The article discusses why the mia beats audigy then live and then draws a comparison to ac'97. Read the article again and you might get it. The reason is that AC'97 uses a hardware CODEC where the audigy uses a seperate DAC and ADC chip respectively which produce much less DC offset which results in uncrushed highs and lows. There is also less noise with Audigy and similar cards because of this reason. The article also explains other symptoms of cheap DAC, ADC, or hardware CODECs. Read it before you comment on it. If you read it and don't understand, read one from another site. Tom's is good and it's in layman's terms so you may have better luck with it.

 

[Pabster]

Yes it sucks -- but it isn't half as bad as some make it out to be. My main beef with it is the lack of support for advanced positional audio technologies and (generally) higher CPU usage. For many people, it is just fine. I'll stick with Santa Cruz though

 

[Wingznut]

And stop trying to belittle people with comments such as "Read the article again and you might get it."

You tend to make a habit out of posting passive-agressive insults like that. To assume that someone doesn't understand, because they don't agree with your point of view, is arrogance at it's finest.

 

[paralazarguer]

In this case he wans't simply disagreeing, he stated that I didn't explain why...I did and he obviously didn't understand the explanation. Then I pointed him to it.

 

[unclebud]

ac97 on my ms-6366 smells badly
but i have two soundblaster cards (sb 16 under win me and sblive x-gamer(Not 5.1) under win me also) and they smell badly also. driver support is inexcusably HORRENDOUS
so today i bought a hercules 5.1 for $19.99 from best buy. at least it comes with power dvd.
glad to see dude was just posting smoke and mirrors. i almost didn't buy the hercules cause of him

 

[InFecTed]

Only onboard sound that I've found decent was the CT5880 on the Gigabyte mobos. I've used it with a receiver and JAMO speakers and it was ok.

 

[IJump]

I have a couple of boards with onboard sound and I have absolutely no problems. I ahve never heard tinny highs or whatever the problem you said with the lows was.....


If course, I don't have speakers plugged into them either....



I did just get an MSI K7N415(same as K7N420 with onboard video) with onboard sound...anybody have experience with that board?

 

[Tanked]

"I did just get an MSI K7N415(same as K7N420 with onboard video) with onboard sound...anybody have experience with that board?"

Sort of. I built a system for a friend using that board, and the sound quality appears to be even better then a SB Live - Although there were several other problems with the board.

One being, a 4.1 analog speaker system will not get sound out of all of the channels. You will need a digital system.

 

[merlocka]

In this case he wans't simply disagreeing, he stated that I didn't explain why...I did and he obviously didn't understand the explanation. Then I pointed him to it.

LOL, is it so obvious that I'm a dumbass? I need to learn to hide it better.

Some of the statements that you have made rergarding onboard sound using the AC97 specification have been...

No. AC'97 is horrible. Read this article which specifically lists AC'97 and how it compares to the live, audigy and Mia

The linked article does indeed compare the MIA, Audigey, and Live. Data is provided for DC offset and internal noise as well as other useful info. There is no specific data for the AC97 is there? Perhaps I am totally oblivious, can you cut and paste something from that link other than If we were comparing the Live to AC?97 integrated audio, we would have been doing back flips over the superior quality of this card. which provides specific data on a board using AC97 which backs up your later claim of sound will be muddled and squashed because of the 50+dB DC offset

I don't doubt that some boards using poor implimentations of AC97 could have this offset, which would certainly provide bad dynamic range, but this article you have linked to doesn't verify that. In addition, are you willing to claim that no implimentation of the AC97 specification could be absent of such significant DC offset?

I'm not doubting your audio 1337ness, you seem quite confident of it. I'm just curious why you keep linking to that article which does not specifically address a AC97 implimentation as you state.

 

[unclebud]

i only use hedphones (even though i have had a creative fps2000 collecting dust for over a year -- don't want to alert the crackheads) right now anyway, so speaker sound is not what i'm stressing
it's the fps in q3 1.31 with and without sound (disabled in dev mgr). arrrgh