AC plus fan

[tinpanalley]

I've got an AC that does an amazing job of cooling our living room but the other rooms in our apartment are down a long hall and we want to shoot some of the cold air down that hall to the dining room. If my research is right, we want a fan and NOT a circulator, right? There's a great Vornado I like, but it looks like a Honeywell Tower fan I'm looking at is more what we need to suck up the cool air behind it and shoot it down the hallway.
Can anyone help me determine if I've got this right?

 

[Paperdoc]

Your thinking is right. A tower design is good at circulation, but not what you want. A "regular" fan that sucks in air at the back and blows out the front is for you.

Vornado makes some very good fans, but many of them are marketed as "circulators". That is because IF you choose to set them up to aim their output up to the ceiling, or around the side of a room, it CAN create a lot of circulation around the room. But you CAN choose to aim the fan where you want to. In fact, many Vornado designs have good bases making aiming easy. We have one of their Model 723 units

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000E1CB2U/ref=emc_b_5_i

and it can blow a LOT of air at full speed. It's not cheap, but is very well made. At full speed and air volume it makes some noise, but less than many other fans with lower air flow, and it can run slower (3-speed switch).

One small issue. Remember that air cannot go anywhere unless it can come back. So blowing cooler air down the hallway may not make a big difference if there is no way for some air to come back, or to go somewhere else.

 

[tinpanalley]

Remember that air cannot go anywhere unless it can come back. So blowing cooler air down the hallway may not make a big difference if there is no way for some air to come back, or to go somewhere else.

So, scientifically, in principle, the idea doesn't work. We're not going to be able to blow that cooled air down to another room.

 

[Steltek]

So, scientifically, in principle, the idea doesn't work. We're not going to be able to blow that cooled air down to another room.

I presume you have a window unit in the living room and not any form of central heat/air? If so, how much effect a fan would have depends upon how many BTUs the AC is it rated at (it should be on a label somewhere on the unit showing this) and in total how many total square feet the rooms are you want to cool.

If the AC unit is large enough to cool your whole apartment, the fan will help but air won't necessarily be as cool in the other rooms due to lack of a return. If it isn't large enough to cool your whole apartment, you'd be better off to consider installing a smaller window unit or two sized for the rooms you want to cool (or a slightly oversized bedroom unit with a fan to blow into the dining room).

 

[tinpanalley]

I presume you have a window unit in the living room and not any form of central heat/air? If so, how much effect a fan would have depends upon how many BTUs the AC is it rated at (it should be on a label somewhere on the unit showing this) and in total how many total square feet the rooms are you want to cool.

If the AC unit is large enough to cool your whole apartment, the fan will help but air won't necessarily be as cool in the other rooms due to lack of a return. If it isn't large enough to cool your whole apartment, you'd be better off to consider installing a smaller window unit or two sized for the rooms you want to cool (or a slightly oversized bedroom unit with a fan to blow into the dining room).

So what we have now is a portable 13,000BTU. Great for the living room, den, and half the hallway. And they'd rather we didn't use window units for water damage reasons (beyond me, entirely, I don't get it either).

 

[Steltek]

So what we have now is a portable 13,000BTU. Great for the living room, den, and half the hallway. And they'd rather we didn't use window units for water damage reasons (beyond me, entirely, I don't get it either).

Yeah, 13000BTU is only good for cooling around 450 square feet (roughly a 21' x 21' room) at most. So, a fan wouldn't do you much good beyond that during the day. Nights might be a little better, but not by much.

I'm sure they don't want window units to avoid damage from water leaking around them when it rains. However, banning window units is kind of ridiculous if they aren't providing you with central air or giving you some type of rental credit towards purchase of portables. Were it me, I think I'd be looking for a different landlord as soon as possible.

 

[tinpanalley]

Yeah, 13000BTU is only good for cooling around 450 square feet (roughly a 21' x 21' room) at most. So, a fan wouldn't do you much good beyond that during the day. Nights might be a little better, but not by much.

I'm sure they don't want window units to avoid damage from water leaking around them when it rains. However, banning window units is kind of ridiculous if they aren't providing you with central air or giving you some type of rental credit towards purchase of portables. Were it me, I think I'd be looking for a different landlord as soon as possible.

The room in question is about 125 sq ft. Whcih is why I though it could "leak" out into other parts of the apartment.

 

[lxskllr]

Use a fan. If it isn't enough, add more fans. A friend of mine cooled his whole farmhouse with a single window unit on the second story.

 

[deadlyapp]

Another option, if you do have a window in the far room, is to put a fan in that window, pulling air out of the room and exhausting it outside. This should induce some air current to pull the colder air from the living room into that bedroom.

Since you're using a portable AC, your return and recirculation is pretty garbage anyways and you'll never get great cooling.

 

[Paperdoc]

deadlyapp is right (above). However, you need to realize a related factor. IF you place an exhaust fan in the far room so hot air can leave the house from there, then somewhere else in the house there must be a matching INTAKE of outside (maybe even hotter!) air. So THAT air must be cooled by the AC, and that means it has to do more cooling than without the exhaust fan.

 

[tinpanalley]

deadlyapp is right (above). However, you need to realize a related factor. IF you place an exhaust fan in the far room so hot air can leave the house from there, then somewhere else in the house there must be a matching INTAKE of outside (maybe even hotter!) air. So THAT air must be cooled by the AC, and that means it has to do more cooling than without the exhaust fan.

Ok, the science of this has gone over my head but I find it fascinating, can you explain it again?

 

[RPD]

Ok, the science of this has gone over my head but I find it fascinating, can you explain it again?

Think of your house as a closed container. Most residential AC works by recirculating the air inside. The only way fresh air (again for residential) to get in is either through operable windows or infiltration (cracks in the window seals or door jabs as they aren't 100% air tight).

Now if you were to open a window or make a new opening someone and start pushing air out it, you create negative pressure in that area, which air from higher pressure areas will move into. At the end of the day any fresh air will be coming from the outside and warmer (for cooling) that what is typically inside the space.

 

[Red Squirrel]

Fans will work, ideally ones that can push air far with lot of velocity, ex: that don't spread out. May take some experimentation or even modding of fan to get something that works right. Ex : adding longer fins or something.

Also consider that if you are trying to move air into an area you want the air that is already there to move out. So you will need to experiment with angles to shoot the air right. My train of thought would be to get a high velocity floor fan and shoot the air downwards towards the area you want, this should force the hot air from the ceiling area to come back towards the room that is being cooled, and that air will eventually get cooled as well.

Another option might be a centrifugal inline fan, and some spiral tubing. You'll have tubing all over your floor but this will work as a crude way to force air to any room you want. Ex: if you just want to set this up at night and put it away in the day or something.

 

[jmagg]

I effectively cool 1200 sq ft (5 rooms), with a 10000 btu window unit and a single stand up fan. The house is well insulated, and I close the southern elevation drapes in the hottest hours. Weather has been in the low 90s for the last 3 days, and the house stays in the mid to low 70s.

 

[tinpanalley]

Ok, bit of an update in my search for help from you generous and helpful people... after appealing to our property management group we've been given the ok for window units. The store (via Amazon) won't take the portable one back but Amazon told me to get back to them if the store said no.
I'll post a little sketch of the apartment later. But essentially a long corridor with a living room and den on one end, a dining room and kitchen on the other end, and a bathroom and bedroom midway down the hall.

 

[Steltek]

Ok, bit of an update in my search for help from you generous and helpful people... after appealing to our property management group we've been given the ok for window units. The store (via Amazon) won't take the portable one back but Amazon told me to get back to them if the store said no.
I'll post a little sketch of the apartment later. But essentially a long corridor with a living room and den on one end, a dining room and kitchen on the other end, and a bathroom and bedroom midway down the hall.

You might be able to put a slightly oversized unit in the bedroom and then use a fan to blow cold air into the kitchen. Like @jmagg indicates, window blinds or shades will make a lot of difference with cooling, especially during the hottest part of the day.

If you are really worried about the potential liability for water damage with a window unit, they cost more but you can get a u-shaped inverter window unit that allows you to close the window down to about 3-4 inches above the sill (reducing the amount of space you have to weather seal against leaks). If it is installed right, you can actually open and close the window above it with the AC installed.

My cousin's ex also has a "saddle" AC unit in her living room window. It has a gap in the middle where you just basically drop it over the window sill and shut the window on top of it (it is the opposite of a u-shaped unit with the gap at the bottom instead of the top) leaving two small gaps to seal. I don't know what the brand is, but I'm sure it was expensive though (as apparently everything they bought while together was).

 

[tinpanalley]

You might be able to put a slightly oversized unit in the bedroom and then use a fan to blow cold air into the kitchen. Like @jmagg indicates, window blinds or shades will make a lot of difference with cooling, especially during the hottest part of the day.

If you are really worried about the potential liability for water damage with a window unit, they cost more but you can get a u-shaped inverter window unit that allows you to close the window down to about 3-4 inches above the sill (reducing the amount of space you have to weather seal against leaks). If it is installed right, you can actually open and close the window above it with the AC installed.

My cousin's ex also has a "saddle" AC unit in her living room window. It has a gap in the middle where you just basically drop it over the window sill and shut the window on top of it (it is the opposite of a u-shaped unit with the gap at the bottom instead of the top) leaving two small gaps to seal. I don't know what the brand is, but I'm sure it was expensive though (as apparently everything they bought while together was).

I'll look into all this. Thank you.
Right now, Amazon says it'll be no problem taking back the AC despite the seller shop saying no because somehow it's covered by their A-Z guarantee. In any event, I am trying to research now to see what would be the ideal window unit for us be it in combination with the portable if Amazon can't take it, or without that portable and maybe a smaller portable instead if we can send this big one back. We wre thinking for example if there were a different portable that also doubled as a heater that would make it taking up space more worthwhile all year round.

 

[Steltek]

I happened to run into my cousin today and asked him about that saddle AC. He said it was an 8k BTU (largest they made) by a company named Soleus. Turns out they also had one of the U-shaped inverter AC units in their master bedroom that I didn't know about, a 10k BTU model made by Midea. They had originally bought them for ease/safety of installation when they lived in a 3rd floor upstairs apartment in Atlanta and just moved them to their new house after they came back home.

He said to tell you that they are both too expensive to mess with unless you are in an upstairs apartment where you need very easy installation (plus, both ran on 115v outlets as there was nothing bigger in the apartment). If you are in a ground level apartment where you can seal them tightly, he said standard window units would save you money upfront.

BTW, do you have any 230v outlets at any of the windows in your apartment? If not, keep the AC electrical requirements in mind as you will be limited to small units that will run on 115v (which might affect your plan to consider combo heat/AC units).

 

[tinpanalley]

BTW, do you have any 230v outlets at any of the windows in your apartment? If not, keep the AC electrical requirements in mind as you will be limited to small units that will run on 115v (which might affect your plan to consider combo heat/AC units).

All the ones I'm looking at are regular ACs for apartments and all are 120V. Even the heater AC combo is a regular portable Frigidaire that is about 8000BTU but also runs on regular 120V power.

 

[Red Squirrel]

Typically anything up to 12,000 BTU (1 ton) will run fine on 120v. I bought a portable 12,000 BTU before I got central AC and it used close to 15 amps but not quite. I ran a 20 amp outlet near the window with two sets of 12/2 (the 12/3 was out of stock) to create a MWBC and also have ability to swap with a 240v outlet at some point if needed just to play things safe but it was really not necessary.

 

[tinpanalley]

..

 

[tinpanalley]

Thanks to everybody for the help and input. We're scrapping the portable unit and getting two window units.
We're installing this 10,000 BTU window unit in the dining room and another of the same in the living room on the other side of the apartment. And we'll put a circulator fan in the hallway. Trying to incorporate the portable AC is driving us nuts.
That should do it for each end of the apartment, right? The only other option in this line is 6000BTU and 12000. 10000 seemed more appropriate. The other brands I just don't trust or know enough.