Abysmal state of affairs for Charter Schools in Michigan

[Exterous]

Charter schools have been hailed by many as a way to improve education. In Michigan, which has the 6th most Charter Schools of any state, it seems as though they are failing miserably.

The Detroit FP is doing a week long expose on the myriad of problems caused by Michigan's Charter Schools.

Among the findings reported so far:
-40% of Charter schools are 'low performing' but continue to stay open
-No improvement in child education esp in poverty stricken areas
-NHA's rents exceed 'reasonable levels' and 47 leases exceed fair market value leading to less money spent per pupil on actual education than traditional Public Schools which are charged fair market value if renting
-Many NHA board members did not know the NHA charged rent
-Charter Schools are not complying with laws to disclose finances
-Conflicts of interest and profit scamming run rampant

And we still have 5 days worth of article releases to go...

http://www.freep.com/article/20140622/NEWS06/140507009

The NHA is already in full marketing gear again, buying up most of DFP ad space on Monday and Tuesday:

Seems like a hell of a mess has been created and it will take heavy handed government intervention if we want it to be straightened out.

FWIW both the Democrats started the Charter School push and it has been expanded on by the Republicans. Neither listened to the views of actual educators on how to implement this and both sides fucked this up in their own special way. This is not to say Charter Schools can't succeed but there is far more to this than the Legislatures realized (despite warnings from their educational advisers).

 

[glenn1]

Haven't yet read the articles but will assume for now that everything is true and Michigan charter schools are terrible. If so, they still have more accountability than public schools and a far better better chance of improvement. Many public schools represent an institutional failure, they're simply wastelands where bureaucracy and mediocrity have become so ingrained into the culture that they're unfixable. Good teachers aren't rewarded and bad ones aren't punished, and administration is both bloated and completely inept. Couple those factors with the absolute inflexibility of state laws, union rules, overly generous tenure policies, and ridiculous cirriculum and you have a recipe for disaster.

 

[realibrad]

And then you read articles like this.

http://www.michigancapitolconfidential.com/18164

A new study taking race, poverty and other areas into account when measuring performance shows that students in Michigan public charter schools do better academically than their conventional public school counterparts.

You cant look at just one, and not at the others. Also, I cant find any data, but what is the cost per student in the charter vs public school?

 

[Genx87]

I am also curious what is the "low performing" % of public schools?

 

[Exterous]

If so, they still have more accountability than public schools

This is actually not true. Public Schools require all financial information to be posted on websites and must include all contract\rent\labor details. Charter schools are now no longer bound by that reporting making accountability exceedingly more difficult than at a public school

Many public schools represent an institutional failure, they're simply wastelands where bureaucracy and mediocrity have become so ingrained into the culture that they're unfixable. Good teachers aren't rewarded and bad ones aren't punished, and administration is both bloated and completely inept. Couple those factors with the absolute inflexibility of state laws, union rules, overly generous tenure policies, and ridiculous cirriculum and you have a recipe for disaster.

I can see you are not familiar with the Michigan education system. There are no state wide tenure protections. The state of Michigan requires staffing decisions to be made based on 'effectiveness' rather than tenure so that point makes no sense.

The cirriculum is set at the state level and both Charter and Public must follow the same so that point makes no sense

I agree that the administration is bloated but Charter schools have a higher average administrative\support staff count so that point makes no sense

And then you read articles like this.

A study using 2010 data published in 2012? The number of charter schools has increased 60% since then altering the landscape a lot

Even going by your outdated information there are problems. That graph shows the charter schools performance in comparison with its Feeder Traditional Public School not All Public schools. If you open up 72 Charter schools that claim DPS as their feeder (which many do) then your bar is going to be incredibly low and gains easy to show particularly when you require applications to attend. This does not mean they were more successful than the average Michigan Public School

Public schools must take anyone in the district while Charter Schools are allowed to pick and choose. A large percentage of Charter schools also don't run bus services further restricting the access of the poor and disadvantaged, ensuring they remain in Public Schools

You cant look at just one, and not at the others. Also, I cant find any data, but what is the cost per student in the charter vs public school?

But that is what the study you linked is doing. It is looking at the Charter and its Feeder TPS. Not comparing them to other schools, even those nearby. The data is also flawed by the Charter school student selection process. Only take the smartest from the nearest public school is going to skew the data on both ends

Charter schools - by law - get the exact same per-pupil funding the public school district they are located in gets. Something to consider is that a good number of these Charter Schools are for profit. I haven't dug into the Freeps Audits of a some of these schools but prior studies show Charter schools have a higher number of administrative staff than public schools which, when combined with the for-profit aspect, leaves less money for actual education of the students. At the very least the costs to the community are break even and certainly no sight of the savings promised

I am also curious what is the "low performing" % of public schools?

According to the Free Press’ review, 38% of charter schools that received state academic rankings during the 2012-13 school year fell below the 25th percentile, meaning at least 75% of all schools in the state performed better. Only 23% of traditional public schools fell below the 25th percentile.

 

[Zebo]

Vouchers are only way to improve our pathetic education system.

Whats funny is socialist Europe who liberals love to wannabe uses primarily vouchers and they wont touch it with a 10 ft pole here. ofc their kids destory ours.

 

[realibrad]

Cherry picking has always been the problem when I try to think of market solutions. I think that public schools do not have a functioning feed back mechanism. When you look at the cost per student, its going up in real terms, and our scores are going down. US spending levels per student is far too high compared to the scores we see.

The theory behind charter schools seems appealing. If you pay the school, and you dont feel your child improved enough, you can then leave and go to another school. The reason I asked about the cost of the charter schools, is that if they are even in terms of their scores, then what was the cost?

 

[Matt1970]

The number of charter schools has increased 60% since then altering the landscape a lot

What does a 60% increase in charter schools in 4 years tell you?

 

[Exterous]

Cherry picking has always been the problem when I try to think of market solutions. I think that public schools do not have a functioning feed back mechanism. When you look at the cost per student, its going up in real terms, and our scores are going down. US spending levels per student is far too high compared to the scores we see.

The theory behind charter schools seems appealing. If you pay the school, and you dont feel your child improved enough, you can then leave and go to another school. The reason I asked about the cost of the charter schools, is that if they are even in terms of their scores, then what was the cost?

I agree that there are big problems in education but we are going about fixing them in the wrong way. Charter schools can be a great solution but the implementation is flawed particularly when you look at access to the schools. Creating environments that show better scores because they don't allow low score performers into the building or refuse to offer a means for those children to attend is not a fix

Like I said - the cost to the state is the same even though many don't offer bus service for the same state expenditure.

Personally I think the Charter school vs Public School debate and fight over resources is missing the point. At best they are a break even situation while diverting attention from the area that needs to most fixing - parenting.

What does a 60% increase in charter schools in 4 years tell you?

That the reduction in financial oversight and allowance of for profit schools makes Michigan a great place to make money even when providing mediocre to sub par educational services. Not to mention the value of marketing and advertising when your competition is not allowed to market or advertise.

 

[Exterous]

Vouchers are only way to improve our pathetic education system.

I disagree. My wife now teaches in a school with less funding, less resources, fewer staff, sometimes less capable staff yet their educational scores are much better than any of the nearby public\charter schools.

The biggest difference? The parents. Its private but open to anyone willing to pay the $5,000 a year tuition. These parents are involved in their child's education and it shows. They don't expect the school to be a baby sitting service that does their parenting for them.

 

[boomerang]

At best they are a break even situation while diverting attention from the area that needs to most fixing - parenting.

Now you're talking. Different methodology pretty much across the board between public and charter schools with basically the same results. That dictates that the next course of action should be to find the common denominator - which you have done.

 

[Matt1970]

n/m

 

[Mursilis]

Personally I think the Charter school vs Public School debate and fight over resources is missing the point. At best they are a break even situation while diverting attention from the area that needs to most fixing - parenting.

From my experience (parent of four kids in various public schools), you're right, but how the heck are we as a society going to fix bad parenting? I was just reading a study that the majority of millenials are having kids (or at least their first) outside of marriage, which just increases the likelihood of bad outcomes. The problem seems to be getting worse, not better.

 

[Zebo]

I disagree. My wife now teaches in a school with less funding, less resources, fewer staff, sometimes less capable staff yet their educational scores are much better than any of the nearby public\charter schools.

The biggest difference? The parents. Its private but open to anyone willing to pay the $5,000 a year tuition. These parents are involved in their child's education and it shows. They don't expect the school to be a baby sitting service that does their parenting for them.

Parenting is the most important but hard to change. But no state school can compete with private economically or academically. Like you said 5K. Most public districts spend 9-12K. Not only that if you're an "involved" parent and your kid is surrounded by a bunch of delinquent parent kids you'll lose.

 

[Zebo]

From my experience (parent of four kids in various public schools), you're right, but how the heck are we as a society going to fix bad parenting? I was just reading a study that the majority of millenials are having kids (or at least their first) outside of marriage, which just increases the likelihood of bad outcomes. The problem seems to be getting worse, not better.

How you fix it is kids gets kicked out and digs ditches like old days. Parents will get the message. Of course that would never happen these days..."no child left behind" world. So you give vouchers to kids whos parents are involved leave uninvolved kids in day care centers called public school.

 

[boomerang]

From my experience (parent of four kids in various public schools), you're right, but how the heck are we as a society going to fix bad parenting? I was just reading a study that the majority of millenials are having kids (or at least their first) outside of marriage, which just increases the likelihood of bad outcomes. The problem seems to be getting worse, not better.

We can't fix it. Too many see no problems with a live and let live society. They are not programmed to see the decay of society and the end results of that decay. It will have to play itself out and we can only hope that there will be lessons learned.

Look at the changes in Germany after WWII. Now that's a country that learned some big lessons from their mistakes. Unfortunately, generations later, too many have forgotten those lessons and the mistakes will be repeated over and over.

The human condition. Seemingly inescapable.

 

[Exterous]

From my experience (parent of four kids in various public schools), you're right, but how the heck are we as a society going to fix bad parenting?

I would say more oversight on truancy, stricter laws regarding school behavior and holding parents responsible for their child's behavior via penalties (fines?). Sure there are truancy laws but DPS is so over worked truancy still runs rampant and parents aren't punished at all

One thing that works well at my wife's school is mandatory academic detention for studying\homework for those students with a D or below

 

[glenn1]

I agree that there are big problems in education but we are going about fixing them in the wrong way. Charter schools can be a great solution but the implementation is flawed particularly when you look at access to the schools. Creating environments that show better scores because they don't allow low score performers into the building or refuse to offer a means for those children to attend is not a fix.

That depends on what you see the problem as. If like me you see the problem as being a large amounts of school resources being spent on children who are basically uneducable, then it's completely appropriate and a good idea to redirect those resources to those who are able to and want to learn. For many of those low performers you're talking about spending any amount of time or resources beyond a certain point (like 8th or 9th grade?) is basically a waste of money and effort.

 

[Zaap]

So you give vouchers to kids whos parents are involved leave uninvolved kids in day care centers called public school.

This.