Abstinence only works just like it is intend.....

[Strk]

Originally posted by: Accipiter22
I remember somethingawful talked about this once and said something like "abstinence education is something that even the people who teach it know is stupid. At most all it does is deflect the dong from the girl's vagina and send it into her mouth or ass"

It was from a study done by Yale and Columbia. Here is an article about it. And the part you mentioned:

In terms of high-risk behavior, the raw numbers were small, but the gap was statistically significant, Bearman said. Just 2 percent of youth who never took a pledge said they had had anal or oral sex but not intercourse, compared with 13 percent of "consistent pledgers."

 

[taterworks]

Though "safe sex" methods should be discussed (condoms, dental dams, etc.), abstinence should still be mentioned as the only 100%-effective preventive measure for unwanted pregnancy and/or STD/STI. The smart people will get it, and at least stick to pleasuring themselves rather than getting into it with a partner, but if there are people that just can't exercise any self-discipline or restraint, at least they'll know how to keep from destroying lives with the consequences of their actions (while recognizing the risk that other preventive measures just aren't 100% effective). I agree that it shouldn't be a surprise that abstinence-only sex education is a contradictory and confusing message in today's culture which sends every conceivable message to the contrary. The modern marketing industry would be in ruins if self-discipline were to be encouraged and cultivated as a societal norm.

Sex education should give a full treatment of the topic, covering everything from the use contraceptive measures to the advantages of abstinence, as well as describing in great detail the consequences of an unwanted pregnancy. Students should also be educated on abortion methods and the fact that a baby in the womb can feel pain as soon as its brain and nervous system is active.

Society gets so stuck on "either this or that" arguments, when the best way to treat the subject is to treat the WHOLE subject. As in, don't leave ANYTHING out, for anyone's sake.

Addendum: Let's also avoid category errors here. What we're discussing is how teens should be taught to deal with their sexual urges before they are able to make responsible decisions and choose a lifelong partner. Teaching "abstinence" in this case would not mean lifelong abstinence, but abstinence during the time period before the students would be able to deal with the consequences of their actions, if a pregnancy is produced. Most people who would argue against the inclusion of abstinence doctrine in a high-school-level sex education course in any quantity do so by misrepresenting abstinence doctrine at its extreme. The other misrepresentation of abstinance doctrine that is rampant in this debate is that it is only the doctrine of religious 'fanatics'. Like I mentioned above, abstinence during the time period in question is the only 100%-effective way of preventing unwanted pregnancy. This is not to say that it's 'easy' -- a great deal of self-discipline would be required. But in my view, it does represent the ideal. Sex education should be formulated with the understanding that few will be interested in this ideal, however. All the same, please don't insult the intelligence of myself or others by thinking you can get away with either of these misrepresentations.

Tangent:

However, what is equally disturbing is that 11 year old girls are getting pregnant. Before we start passing the blame to Bush, as the OP suggests, where are these kid's parents?

Recently, in Indiana, there was a fight to pass legislation that would make it possible children under 18 years of age to have an abortion without parental consent. What I wonder is, why would anyone want to do that? Parents who are AWOL are one thing...but trying to remove the parents entirely is quite another.

 

[zendari]

Originally posted by: shira
How many advocates of abstinence-only programs do you think practiced abstinence themselves?

Think George W. Bush was a virgin until marriage? Think Dick Cheney was?

Like so many hypocrites, religious fanatics think the rules start with the current generation.

What makes you think they were't?

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: SKoprowski
You can get in a car accident too- but do you get into car accident every time you drive?

Oral sex is the less risky of all sex- if teenagers are going to involve themselves I would rather have them perform oral sex. I work with this every day- the reality is that teenagers need to be presented with all the information to make informed decisions about their actions. It is wrong to deny them the complete information.

Sure they do but telling them to simply have oral sex instead of vaginal or anal because it is safer is a bunch o crap. You can get many stds from oral sex.

btw I am not for the only abstinence program either. I think a combination needs to be taught.

 

[Future Shock]

Originally posted by: Starbuck1975
However, what is equally disturbing is that 11 year old girls are getting pregnant. Before we start passing the blame to Bush, as the OP suggests, where are these kid's parents?

The first line of defense against teen pregnancy is good parenting.

Assuming that said sex was CONSENSUAL. Too often it is not...

Future Shock

 

[glenn1]

btw I am not for the only abstinence program either. I think a combination needs to be taught.

I'd venture to guess that most here would probably support the "ABC" approach (Abstinence, Be faithful, Condoms) like they use in Africa. While I disagree with the "abstinence only" approach, I'm just as concerned about teachers who will be hardheaded and insist that "abstinence is stupid, I'm not teaching that" and it doesn't get taught at all.

 

[Todd33]

Originally posted by: zendari

Originally posted by: shira
How many advocates of abstinence-only programs do you think practiced abstinence themselves?

Think George W. Bush was a virgin until marriage? Think Dick Cheney was?

Like so many hypocrites, religious fanatics think the rules start with the current generation.

What makes you think they were't?

A a thing called reality tells us.

When they were married, both George and Laura were 31 years old.

http://marriage.about.com/od/celebritymarriages/p/georgewbush.htm

Are we to believe that frat boy and heavy drinker Dubya was a virgin until 31? When did he even become a Christian anyhow?

He has often said he was pointed on the path to God after a discussion with evangelist Billy Graham in 1985.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6115719/

That made Bush 39 years old when he "found" God. So Zentroll do you think he was a virgin when he was married? Do you have any proof that conservatives and Christians ever practice what they preach?

 

[shira]

Originally posted by: zendari

Originally posted by: shira
How many advocates of abstinence-only programs do you think practiced abstinence themselves?

Think George W. Bush was a virgin until marriage? Think Dick Cheney was?

Like so many hypocrites, religious fanatics think the rules start with the current generation.

What makes you think they were't?

For the sake of argument: Let's suppose I have absolute proof that neither was a virgin. If I reveal the evidence and it's convincing, will that change your views about abstinence-only programs?

And if your answer is "No" (as I'm almost certain it is), why should I go to the trouble of answering your question?

The point is: You're immune to logic and evidence. Why should anyone have a discussion with you?

 

[zendari]

Originally posted by: shira

Originally posted by: zendari

Originally posted by: shira
How many advocates of abstinence-only programs do you think practiced abstinence themselves?

Think George W. Bush was a virgin until marriage? Think Dick Cheney was?

Like so many hypocrites, religious fanatics think the rules start with the current generation.

What makes you think they were't?

For the sake of argument: Let's suppose I have absolute proof that neither was a virgin. If I reveal the evidence and it's convincing, will that change your views about abstinence-only programs?

And if your answer is "No" (as I'm almost certain it is), why should I go to the trouble of answering your question?

Yes. Amuse me. He certainly hasn't developed Clinton's taste for sexual adventures.

 

[Bitek]

Originally posted by: zendari

Originally posted by: shira

Originally posted by: zendari

Originally posted by: shira
How many advocates of abstinence-only programs do you think practiced abstinence themselves?

Think George W. Bush was a virgin until marriage? Think Dick Cheney was?

Like so many hypocrites, religious fanatics think the rules start with the current generation.

What makes you think they were't?

For the sake of argument: Let's suppose I have absolute proof that neither was a virgin. If I reveal the evidence and it's convincing, will that change your views about abstinence-only programs?

And if your answer is "No" (as I'm almost certain it is), why should I go to the trouble of answering your question?

Yes. Amuse me.

:roll:

You're so FOS you need to stick toilet paper in your ears to keep your brains from leaking out...


If there was a bet wether GWB was a virgin until marriage or he's done a line of blow off a hookers ass I'd know where I'd put my money.

Cheney? I'm not sure he even has a penis..

 

[sandorski]

On paper Abstinence makes a lot of sense: No Sex, no Sexual Diseases. Unfortunetly at about the age of 12/13 "God"/Nature starts telling people, "Have Sex!" All too often "God"/Nature wins the battle and the "Moral" look down on these succumbing to the will of "God"/Nature. There's a problem here alright, but I don't think the problem has to do with Teens having sex, it's Society or a Subclass of Society going to extraordinary lengths to stop it.

 

[1prophet]

Originally posted by: RightIsWrong
I guess they will just deal with the loss of funding from the Bush "Abstinence Only" program.



For the apologists that will surely chime in claiming that this isn't Bush's fault, I present to you Exhibit A:

This has nothing to do with Bush, Clinton, Democrats, Republicans, textbooks etc.

What a man sows a man shall reap and what we are reaping is the moral relativism of the the Age of Aquarius (of which Bush and Clinton were a part of) and no Abstinence or prophylactics program will be able to overcome it.

Let us look at this particular school:

Timken Senior High School is a high school in Canton, Ohio. It came to national attention in September of 2005, when it was revealed that 65 of the school's students were pregnant. Timken High School is also home to the Early College program which offers 100 ninth grade students the opportunity to graduate from high school with an Associates Degree at no cost to the students. Timken is also home to one of finest campuses in Stark County. The campus stretches a total of nine square blocks and features a top of the line technology academy along with a brand new Commons building for students. Timken Senior High School was started by the Timken Company as a vocational school. Timken High School houses students from various schools around the county because of its' many career and tech. programs.

The school's athletic teams are called the Trojans.:laugh:

In 1997, Timken High School received a $10 million grant from the Timken Foundation, the largest grant to date to a single public high school.

Well obviously this is not some dilapitated inner city poorly funded school so what went wrong?



cantonrep

Whose fault is it that more than 13 percent of Timken?s girls are with child? Some would say fault-finding isn?t a fruitful exercise, but in this case, it?s critical. Suspects range from movies, TV and video games to lazy parents and lax discipline. Only one thing is sure: Schools don?t impregnate children.

?This has gotten to horrible proportions,? said Redmond. ?I wish I knew the answer to why it?s happening.?

She?s not the only one who should wonder. McKinley High?s numbers aren?t rosy, either, and its culture is just as ripe for trouble. I recall a day there last spring, while waiting for an English class to let out, that a roomful of kids lauded a boy, no more than 16 or 17, for having become a ?dad? the night before. A paper on the kid?s desk suggested he might struggle to spell that word.

I remember when it was considered taboo to knock some girl up because you didn't take the proper precautions during sex but today you are considered a hero worthy of the praise of your peers.

A lot of factors enter into a school district?s ability to succeed, but none is more important than home environment. Even smart kids struggle when their parents don?t establish expectations for academic achievement and responsible behavior. Teen moms will, in time, almost surely fill this lethargic parenting description, their pregnancies evidence of faulty priorities.

When today's children don't think they are doing anything wrong by getting pregnant and actually believe they are right, and we take the politically correct don't hurt their feelings attitude by not telling them they are wrong but instead let us throw money at some abstinence and or prophylactics program since that is the answer who are we fooling?